Cuban embargo: makes no sense

[jaxnative]

Maybe I've missed it but, what concessions has Cuba offered in return for the lifting of sanctions?

[BridgeTroll]

Good question.  I am certainly in favor of a serious review of the policy with a desire to see it removed but Cuba needs to come to the table also...

The United States embargo against Cuba (described in Cuba as el bloqueo, Spanish for "the blockade") is a commercial, economic, and financial embargo partially imposed on Cuba in October 1960. It was enacted after Cuba expropriated the properties of United States citizens and corporations and it was strengthened to a near-total embargo in February 1962.

[Cricket]

Maybe I've missed it but, what concessions has Cuba offered in return for the lifting of sanctions?

Oh yes, we are the mighty arbiter of human rights, how dare this Castro government not concede to our demands. They MUST release their political prisoners while we protect their assassins here in this country. Even though we look foolish in the eyes of EU, UK and Canada we will continue to demand concessions. We are always right. ALWAYS.

[BridgeTroll]

Who said anything about being right??  For relations to normalize would require discussions of the issues... IE... we will lift the embargo if you will...(fill the blank) (return american property?)

[Cricket]

Who said anything about being right??  For relations to normalize would require discussions of the issues... IE... we will lift the embargo if you will...(fill the blank) (return american property?)

Whenever you talk about returning american property from third world countries, you are always going to be walking on thin ice. Then you are going to open a can of worms too universal and too exploitative for this one thread to handle. So let's confine this debate to the practicality of continuing this terroristic embargo on the Cuban people. Does it work or does it not work?

[jaxnative]

Until recently, the largest trading partners of Cuba has been Canada, Netherlands, China, and Spain.  The oil deal with the marxist clown in Venezuela has now make that country the largest.  They also trade with Mexico and other Latin American countries.  With that many partners they should have a nice little vibrant Euro-dandy culture in full swing.  

So what do you see happening when the moral demon to the north admits it's grave errors in it's treatment of the Marxist paradise in Cuba?  Who will American businesses deal with in Cuba?  Entrepreneurs and private groups and citizens using their initiative to better their lives or the central economic czars who will decide how many rice cookers and food to distribute.  Do you see them changing Castro's '76 Constitution outlawing private property.  Have you ever looked to see how many people have been executed and jailed in Cuba since the glorious revolution for following their conscience?

There is no amount of false moral equivalency that would induce me to support the current dictators in the police state of Cuba.  

Concessions?  HELL YES!!

[BridgeTroll]

Whenever you talk about returning american property from third world countries, you are always going to be walking on thin ice.

With who?  The Cuban government?  I assume if they want normalized relations they would be willing to address the concerns of those who have them.

terroristic embargo

There you go again...  So... you want to end the embargo but anyones concerns but your own are the only ones that matter?  Also... when you use hyperbole like "terroristic embargo" your credibility among those who you are trying to convince fades quickly.

[Dog Walker]

"Terroristic embargo"?  Oh, gag!  Everything is terrorism now?

The thuggish government of Cuba LOVES the U.S. embargo.  They can point to all of the things wrong in their country, all of the shortages and pain and blame the U.S. rather than their own failed policies.

They trade with the world and the U.S.  Cuba could be, and I believe once was, the richest country in Latin American.  They have fantastic mineral resources and unbelievably fertile soil; abundant sea life, timber, fresh water and everything else a country could need, even a little oil.  The place is incredibly beautiful and could be a tourist paradise.  Instead it is a basket case that survives on welfare, first from the Soviet Union, now from Venezuela. 

The embargo should be lifted because it doesn't work.  And it helps keep in power the tinpot, narcissistic, power addicts that run the place.

[Cricket]

The thuggish government of Cuba LOVES the U.S. embargo.  They can point to all of the things wrong in their country, all of the shortages and pain and blame the U.S. rather than their own failed policies.

The embargo is not hurting the government of Cuba, it hurts the masses and gives them more reasons to despise our own government's policies and support their own. It also hurts the US in the eyes of the world. Yes, they do have trading partners in Canada and other countries, who by the way we tried to blacklist in the beginning for not joing with us in the embargo.

It is laughable that we do business with China and Vietnam and Russia and Saudi Arabia, etc. etc. but we continue to hold hostage a small island nation 90 miles from our shores.

[Cricket]

"Terroristic embargo"?  Oh, gag!  Everything is terrorism now?

Okay, I get it ... terrorism is when other people disrupt our American way of life either by way of suicidal missions or shoe bombs, but when our policies make life difficult for other people it is called something else.

[Dog Walker]

Yes!  You've got it!  Making life "difficult" is not terrorism.

[Ocklawaha]

"Terroristic embargo"?  Oh, gag!  Everything is terrorism now?

Animals breath air, but American animals steal it
Water flows freely, but American water is dammed
There is a hole in the ozone layer, but only over America
The world suffers light pollution, and it's all America's fault
Fish swim in the off shore waters, but America poisons theirs
Government is a choice, except in America where we dictate to the world
If there is a shortage, America did it
If there is a disease, America failed to stop it
If there is a war, America caused it
If there is evil, it must be American
If there is poverty, America caused it
if there are jobs, America meddled to profit from it


There is a certain element of social elitist, neither left nor right, that feel their finite wisdom is most acceptable to the world community when they surrender their Americanism on any one of the alters offered by our avowed enemys. We would be corrected and told, certainly no other country has done as much harm, so much evil, so much murder. They can cite chapter and verse for every political, scientific  or military atrocity, as they quote from luminary's like Abbie Hoffman, Jane Fonda, Robert Redford, uncle Joe Stalin, Adolph, Fidel or Che. Never mind the 60 million murdered under uncle Joe, or the 14 million by an Austrian paper hanger, our hearts bleed for humanity, and America is inhumane.


OCKLAWAHA

[BridgeTroll]

Exacly DW... disruption and difficulty is not terrorism.  Crickets use of the word in this context cheapens it.  

I would be unopposed to the start of a process to normalize relations with Cuba.  Of course part of that process must include Cuba addressing issues raised by Americans as I would expect the U.S. government to address issues raised by Cuba.

You see Cricket... this is the way things are done.  No one is expecting Cuba to cave to some silly demand that they become a model of democracy in exchange for lifting the embargo.  BUT... there ARE legitimate grievances on this side that will be addressed during that negotiation.

[Cricket]

You see Cricket... this is the way things are done.  No one is expecting Cuba to cave to some silly demand that they become a model of democracy in exchange for lifting the embargo.  BUT... there ARE legitimate grievances on this side that will be addressed during that negotiation.

That's fair, I'm all for negotiations. We can address our grievances if that helps us to save face in aborting this failed embargo. But there are still some hardnosed posters here who would like our CIA to send another poisoned cigar to Castro for making us look foolish.

[BridgeTroll]

But there are still some hardnosed posters here who would like our CIA to send another poisoned cigar to Castro for making us look foolish.

I really dont think so... most understand that the embargo has outlived its usefulness.