Why France sucks

[JagFan07]

I prefer to think of what you call a "me, me, me mindset" as individual liberty.   It is (or was) the basis of our political system.   It doesn't take 70% of our income to protect us and build roads.  If people want to sit around for a year and enjoy the wine and roses, I don't want to pay for it.  I don't want to pay for the huge beuracracy required to administer it all either.  

We are attempting to abandon a system which has made our country one of the greatest economic powers in the history of the world.  We are attempting to embrace a system that has never worked for any period of time in the history of the world.  I am not an economist.  I don't pretend to be the smartest or most knowlegable guy on this forum.  But I can read history.  I don't see any reason to believe things will be different now.

Greatest economic power?Huh.
You mean by Federal Reserve printing money out of thin air?
You mean in modern times?
Do you also take in account that you have greatest debt too?

So If I borrow million dollars that makes me a millionaire??
I can walk around and act like one,except one day you have to pay that money back.
Same with US,which borrows money and eventually you will have to pay that back.

Middle class in France has more then middle class in US,unless you include "debt" as wealth.

Best way to measure a country's debt is as a percentage of GDP as GDP can be considered a nations ability to pay the loan back. Now I am not saying the US is in good shape here, but if you compare France (67%) to US (60.8%) you see they are both borrowing to meet there needs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

[Bostech]

I know every country is in debt (I even asked who is lender if everyone is in debt) but you still get more for money in France then here.
USA have been economic power since WWII,which is not that long in historic terms.
Some has to do with lots of luck,war ravaged Europe and Japan so gave chance for USA to be on top.
Sure its great to be rich in US,but most of us are not and never will be,I dont care how much you dream about that.
So I need system that will benefit me as middle class not rich person,after all 250 million Americans belong to middle class and poor.

[BridgeTroll]

So I need system that will benefit me as middle class not rich person,after all 250 million Americans belong to middle class and poor.

I need a system wher I can dream to be rich... and if I work hard, save, I can...  The system you dream of seems to exist in france...

[Bostech]

I am sure Bing,Google or Apple will come up with app for that,maybe call it I am rich.

[JagFan07]

Bing - Microsoft search engine. Started by a Middle Class kid named Bill gates who is now one of the richest men in the world.

Apple - Co-founded by Steve Jobs adopted by middle class parents. Currently worth 5.1 billion.

Google - Founded by Larry Page, son of 2 Computer Science professors, and Sergey Brin, who immigrated to the United States at age 6.

All examples of what BridgeTroll was saying.

[Bostech]

That is story we were told.
I don't buy that crap.
Bill Gates is same man who said 640kb will be all you need for memory in PC.
Doesn't sound like a man who knows stuff.
Seems to me he became rich by accident or someones purpose.

And you are talking about 4 people in country of 300 million.
Lets get REAL her and not dream about kids dreams.

[buckethead]

That is story we were told.
I don't buy that crap.
Bill Gates is same man who said 640kb will be all you need for memory in PC.
Doesn't sound like a man who knows stuff.
Seems to me he became rich by accident or someones purpose.

And you are talking about 4 people in country of 300 million.
Lets get REAL her and not dream about kids dreams.

You are projecting your own inadequacies onto others.


I't is a mind trick you are playing on no one but yourself.

[Bostech]

No,I just live in REAL world ,not illusion or daydreaming how will I become rich one day.
It won't happen.
Some people get lucky and MOST don't.
Let's focus on real world here not illusions.

[BridgeTroll]

But it shouldnt also be a system that insures death by poverty on the other side either.

It doesnt... it insures opportunity to succed or fail.  Do with it what you will according to ability and perseverence.

[Dog Walker]

People like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and Warren Buffett and Thomas Edison and the elder Davis brothers and Herb Peyton and literally millions of others did not get rich by inheritance or luck.

Donald Trump and the younger Davis' did.  It works both ways.

Also, there is an old saying about America that Bos probably hasn't heard, "Shirtsleeves to shirtsleeves in three generations".  First generation immigrants started with a pushcart, saved up and opened a store.  Lived in the apartment above and sent their children to public schools and pushed them to excel.  Second generation became doctors, lawyers, bankers, engineers and were financially successful. Spoiled their kids and didn't push them to succeed.  Third generation did poorly in school, goofed off, played around and when the inheritance ran out, ended up as a construction laborer or flipping burgers or selling used cars.

Social mobility can work both ways in this country.

Forty years ago I had an African-American friend who's parents were near illiterate, sharecroppers on a farm in South Florida.  He earned a Phd and became assistant school superintendent of one of the largest school systems in Florida.  His children are college professors.  Now THAT's social mobility especially at that time for a black man.

The streets of America are not paved with gold, but they have always been paved with opportunity.

[buckethead]

Nicely stated, DW.

[Bostech]

People like Donald Trump and co. can succeed anywhere,you don't have to in US.In China he would be best communist.
Opportunity exists anywhere if you know what you are doing.
Sad thing is,both of my grandparents owned homes,which is unheard of in US,and yet they were nobodies.
Actually 95% of my ENTIRE family are owners of homes,no mortgage,no payments.
How do you explain that nobody in Bosnia can own 3 story reinforced concrete house while hard-working daydreaming American works 30 years to accomplish same thing?

And lets not forget that MAJORITY of Americans belong to middle class and poor.Only few chosen ones are rich.
How they ACTUALLY got rich is mystery,what we are told on TV I dont believe.
Like I said,Bill Gates saying that computer doesnt need more then 640kb of memory doesnt really go with him becoming richest man in world.
If computer memory need stayed below 640kb he would NEVER got where he is now.
Is there something else we dont know about him?

[Bostech]

Pablo Picasso would say "Bad artists copy. Good artists steal:.
I would say,wealthy person works hard for money but filthy rich steals to get rich.

[Bostech]

Most artist,businessman and successful people take someone else work,repackage it and make big money of it.then they get sued,pay part of money as damages and still keep majority.
That's not exactly hard work or success,at least honest way.

You can do that in any country.

Great example was one of popular singer in ex-Yu who was making killer songs since 70's only to turn up he was stealing most of stuff from American classical rock bands.
Some stories even suggest it was government that was helping him to create all those songs,so they can control masses (apparently same trick they took from CIA during 60's).
He had tons of albums,good songs until war.
After war that guy couldn't put single good song.
I guess now that he lost sponsors and support he cant do anything on its own.
But for 30 years people thought he was best musicians out there.

Like I said,we don't know what goes behind closed doors,most of those rich could be just puppets and people who just got lucky.
Some might be even chosen to be rich as example.

Yeah poor guy started in his garage and now his millionaire.
Yeah,right.

Bill Gates strikes me as a guy that doesn't know future.Everything he ever said he got it wrong yet hes richest guy on Earth.
How that works is beyond me.

[buckethead]

Stop it, Bos... You take a simple truth and stretch it into a lie that spans a thousand miles.

I know from personal experience that you cane become wealthy in this country through hard work and diligence. Further, you can become impoverished just as quickly is spite of the same efforts.

Give it a try, Bos... Immigrants tend to have great success here, as DW noted earlier in this (or some other) thread. Fear and resentment are what hold you back.