Jacksonville-Miami rail project rejected

[tufsu1]

Planning funds for rail in Georgia (including link to Jax.)

Macon Telegraph & News
The Federal Railroad Administration announced this week the recipients for the $8 billion that President Obama pledged for boosting high-speed rail. Georgia’s grant was so small it didn’t even make the list distributed with the news release.

Agency spokesman Rob Kulat stated the state applied for $472 million and received $750,000. The award will fund planning support for a line from Atlanta to Birmingham, Ala., and a line from Macon to Jacksonville, Fla.

Some of it will fund a feasibility study for a line from Chicago to Louisville, Ky., to Nashville, Tenn., to Atlanta. 

http://www.macon.com/local/story/1004623.html

[Ocklawaha]

The Car? "The Royal Street", built for? "The Royal Palm" Cincinnati - Jacksonville Daily

Planning funds for rail in Georgia (including link to Jax.)

Macon Telegraph & News
The Federal Railroad Administration announced this week the recipients for the $8 billion that President Obama pledged for boosting high-speed rail. Georgia’s grant was so small it didn’t even make the list distributed with the news release.

Agency spokesman Rob Kulat stated the state applied for $472 million and received $750,000. The award will fund planning support for a line from Atlanta to Birmingham, Ala., and a line from Macon to Jacksonville, Fla.

Some of it will fund a feasibility study for a line from Chicago to Louisville, Ky., to Nashville, Tenn., to Atlanta.  

http://www.macon.com/local/story/1004623.htm

ROYAL PALM Anyone?  If we use the CSX line to Louisville - Nashville - Atlanta - Jax, we will be dealing with a piece of freight track that is very busy with coal tonnage. That traffic tends to beat the crap out of the track itself, making for a rough and much slower ride. The Norfolk Southern from Cincinnati - Knoxville - Atlanta - Macon - VALDOSTA - JAX  is a speedway for intermodal movements. Once the train pulls into Cincinnati, 3 easy sections or connections leave, one each for Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland.

Funny even GEORGIA get it that JACKSONVILLE is the natural junction "hub" of deep south railroading. To think they chose Jacksonville, when they could send that train right down the middle of I-75 straight into Disney Orlando!

OCKLAWAHA

[Dog Walker]

An East Coast line from Boston to Miami makes so darn much sense it hurts.  It makes as much sense as the line down the coast of California does.  Some very high percentage of the U.S. population lives along these two coasts and the money spent on upgrading I-95 would more than pay for it.

[tufsu1]

Keep in mind that there Amtrak already does serve Boston to Miami...it's just that it deviates from the coast itself after Jax. until you get to West Palm Beach.

[Dog Walker]

The ghost of Ed Ball lives on in that deviation too!

What I meant and expressed poorly is that the whole route needs upgrading to "higher" speed rail with a view to an eventual upgrade to real high speed rail.

We need a better term than "higher speed rail".  Faster rail?  Plus rail?  Zippy rail?  Real passenger rail? (as opposed to Greyhound buses on steel).

[CS Foltz]

Dog Walker...........I agree with your take on that situation! The whole FEC line south of Jacksonville needs to be upgraded to "Higher Speed" and more passing tracks but somehow I don't see that happening!

[Dog Walker]

CS, FEC has one of the best maintained and upgraded rail systems in the country.  I don't think it would take much to make it higher speed.  Passenger rail was thrown off these tracks  back in the '60's when the Federal government told Ed Ball that he was going to have to give in to the striking rail workers because the FEC line was carrying passengers in "interstate commerce".  Ed Ball, being the kind of guy he was, simply closed FEC to passenger trains.

Ock could probably tell us what kind of upgrade FEC would need to run passenger trains 90MPH.  Different signaling, I'm sure.

[CS Foltz]

Much thanks for the information Dog Walker!! I was not really sure just what the track conditions were today, but if they are in that good of shape all I have to say is "Hot Spit"! If the entire length to Miami is up to those standards then we are not too far away from being able to establish Jacksonville to Miami more than twice aday! Signaling is one aspect, I am sure, but grades and some curves may need to be reworked for higher speed, communications is something else to consider along with the other upgrades and I agree! This is more Ock's area of expertise than mine...........I'm just guessing!

[Charles Hunter]

If I remember the earlier discussions properly (always an iffy proposition), the purpose of the grant request was to build a few stations (like in St. Augustine), upgrade the rail to 90mph (which wasn't much), and buy equipment.

[Jason]

This is also a potentially HUGE boon for St. Augustine.  Tourists regularly fly into JIA and rent cars to visit St. Augustine.  If the Amtrak line was implemented and a link to JIA and the St. Aug airport was built, tourists would have a much more pleasant time and be able to enjoy the trip virtually car free.  Forthermore, with the 400th anniversary of St. Augustine comming up in 2015 it would be a massive plus for the area's tourism and help visitors experience mose of the first coast.

[tufsu1]

FYI...this is planned advertisement from FDOT to do the environmental studies needed to bring rail transit to the FEC line from West Palm to Miami.

DISTRICT 4    
Major Work   :
 2.0    - Proj. Dev. & Environ. (PD&E) Studies
Contract     : 11430
Financial Management Number(s):
 41703132201

Project Description:
 SOUTH FLORIDA EAST COAST CORRIDOR (SFECC) ENVIRONMENTAL
 IMPACT STATEMENT
Estimated Contract Amt: $14,160,000

Planned Advertisement Date     : 18MAY2010
Planned Shortlst Selection Date: 14JUN2010  Time: 8:30AM
Planned Final Sel. Meeting Date: 26JUL2010  Time: 8:30AM
Response Deadline              : 28MAY2010

As you can see, these studies aren't as cheap or easy as some would like to think!

[mtraininjax]

This is also a potentially HUGE boon for St. Augustine.  Tourists regularly fly into JIA and rent cars to visit St. Augustine.  If the Amtrak line was implemented and a link to JIA and the St. Aug airport was built, tourists would have a much more pleasant time and be able to enjoy the trip virtually car free.  Forthermore, with the 400th anniversary of St. Augustine comming up in 2015 it would be a massive plus for the area's tourism and help visitors experience mose of the first coast.

If "if's and but's" were candy and nuts, we would all have a Merry Christmas!

Too many If's. You're grasping, St. Augustine is fine the way it is, it does not need rail to define itself. Seems to have grown just fine without it.

[stjr]

St. Augustine is fine the way it is, it does not need rail to define itself. Seems to have grown just fine without it.

Considering that most of "modern" St. Augustine owes itself to Henry Flagler's railroad, that's a pretty funny comment, Mtrain!  Oh .... the irony!

[Ocklawaha]

New engine with old logo on it, can you read it? "SPEEDWAY TO AMERICA'S PLAYGROUND!"


Thanks guys. Charles has it pretty right! The FEC physical plant is excellent plus. The speeds now are 65 for freight without any effort... That means 75-79 for passenger TODAY!

The needs list, besides the obvious stations and rolling stock:

a few additional passing sidings, the longer the better for meets at track speed, rather then a hold-out meet with one train sitting "in the hole" while the other charges past.

Signaling is already state-of-the-art, in fact it is ahead of the art. FEC RY already has IN USE the new PTC system which interlocks train control and track control with in-cab, plus wayside signals. This is a system all railroads have been mandated to install, and their all looking at the FEC saying WTF? FUNNY! All that has to be done is change the speed settings, and in the case of crossing signals, change the timing to account for faster trains...

If it were me doing the project, I'd milk every nickle I could get out of the government to get their damn roads off my railroad track. This might be the single biggest stumbling block as the FEC is VERY URBAN for almost it's entire length. They only have about a zillion too many crossings at grade. Consolidate them, close many, over-pass on the busiest. This doesn't have to be complete to run the trains, but as speed increases, it would be the wise course.

Bottom line? Except for some hold-out meets, which would stretch the schedules, the FEC RY could probably start handling the 2 Amtrak trains each way daily, TOMORROW!  Yeah, it is that easy but Florida always finds the most expensive things to do, then makes them a MUST HAVE, before they'll even start a good project. Hell's bells, get some platforms down and lets start those trains at 60-70 MPH, and work our way up from there.

With the AIR JTA bus connection from downtown to JIA, a train into Jacksonville Terminal could indeed package RAIL-AIR-AUTO deals for travelers.

OCKLAWAHA

[stjr]

If it were me doing the project, I'd milk every nickle I could get out of the government to get their damn roads off my railroad track. This might be the single biggest stumbling block as the FEC is VERY URBAN for almost it's entire length. They only have about a zillion too many crossings at grade. Consolidate them, close many, over-pass on the busiest. This doesn't have to be complete to run the trains, but as speed increases, it would be the wise course.

Ock, I don't think FEC helped their case by allowing their own Flagler office park sub to put in an additional crossing at US1 south of St. Augustine Road.  Do as I say, not as I do?  Shouldn't we lead by example?