New Sarcastic Dope on the BRT Citizens Meeting...

[Ocklawaha]

Some of you know, I'm a member of the forum, not an officer of MJ in any way...thus this is my opinion!

Hello y'all:

I'm just back from the JTA meeting and have a bit to report... (put your happy faces on).

The newest things out of the box is:

Water transit "might work" but only evening and morning rush hours. (Could have told them that). It's going to be WAY too slow, (Could have told them that). It's not going to get under the FEC bridge downtown so it won't connect to anything, (Could have told them that). Not enough demand to do more then a Green Cove Springs, Orange Park, to either Baptist Hospital or to about the TU building... (Isn't going to fly... not for the money, could have told them that too!). THINK JTA! Name one single person you know in any of these counties, that lives on the riverfront, that "NEEDS" transit. It's different in Europe where small canal like waterways slice through mile after endless mile of dense, low rise flats, filled with common workers.

BRT, Well we plan to use the BJP $100 Million for BRT filling stations and a couple of "end point" stations. Sucks. NO MONEY has been released yet, we can hope Glorious could lead a stop to it.

BRT downtown has gotten a bit smarter, and a bit dumber at one moment. There is a plan to use Broad and Jefferson as the North-South Core from the Acosta Bridge to State and Union Streets. So far so good. Then, they plan to use Forsyth and Bay to access the Union Terminal, West from Jefferson and Broad.

THIS WILL DUPLICATE THE SKYWAY FROM JEFFERSON ST STATION TO UNION STATION, killing what little ridership it has. It won't feed a damn thing.

The Southbank gets really goofy, they plan to use the ground floor of the San Marco, Riverplace, and Kings Avenue skyway station. This will KILL the Skway investment from Central Station to all of the Southbank but for a trickle, If the buses originate at Rosa Parks, it will completely kill the system. Further, there is an avenue for BRT on the Southbank that would open a completely new transit corridor. I brought it up and it appeared they just didn't get it. Finally I think someone copied it down. Bottom line:

Cross the Acosta Bridge,
Exit the expressway and turn RIGHT into Baptist Medical Center/Wolfson/Nemouirs/Atnea
Left in front of the Baptist garages to Gary Street South of the I-95
Left on Gary St. with some busway completion and double direction running all the way to Kings Avenue Station.

Rather then Compete with the Skyway this would compliment it and balance the transit route choices in the Southbank core.

Otherwise, Northbank downtown core BRT appears to be dying a slow death due to JEDC, DVI, City and indecision on Court Houses, Matthews Bridges etc...

The Riverside/5-Points "Potato-Chip-Truck-Trolleys" are now going to be a lunch hour only item, something like 11 am to 1:30 pm only. They will connect the landing with Riverside and the fancy little stations on Riverside, were injected into the planning of the big towers now going up, so JTA is NOT building them.
Right-of-way for future Skyway, which they estimated in the year 2550, will be preserved down Riverside Avenue by FDOT.

REAL STREETCARS should use Park Avenue and Annie Lytle, hence into 5-Points, down Oak, to King to St. Vincents. (My comments)

Rail was mentioned as a "REAL" study then we were informed that we only had one BRT route that had any probable rail replacement... Union Terminal - Roosevelt - Orange Park - Green Cove Springs (which if built, at 79 MPH it would quickly sink the water craft commuter boat). The "other routes" they indicated were more likely to be BRT...

I advanced the "S" line to them with the addition of a busway alongside between Moncrief and Main Street. A transfer station at BLVD. and behind Shands would bring all the buses off Moncrief from NW Jax together with buses from Eastside and Northeast Panama/Phoenix areas. Add to that mix a light rail vehicle shuttling from Union Station to the Shands Station, hence north to Swisher, Gateway and the Airport cut-off and you have a BALANCED transit system with choices. Toss in a Streetcar from Union Station- Water-Independence-Newnan-1st-Main-8Th-BLVD and we get more transit choices... Complete the Skyway to the stadium at Randolph, tie into said Streetcar at Newnan and we get the best of 4 worlds of Transit...

But, been there, done that.... Did you read this weeks Folio Editorial? Bottom line.... "Looks like the system will be mostly if not all BRT..."

Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble... TURKEY'S.

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Things have certainly progressed for the better since we first started questioning the BRT plan a few years back.  The Broad/Jefferson BRT alignment is fine, however the Southbank plan does not make sense and is not the best use of the city's resources.  The selected Southbank route parallels the skyway and has a stop next to each existing skyway station, rendering the entire skyway segment serving the Southbank useless, all because a few believe people won't be willing to transfer.  The worst part is that the Soutbank BRT route completely avoids Baptist Medical Center and the Aetna Tower and instead attempts to serve the Peninsula, Strand and San Marco Place.  I'm not a rocket scientist, but I'm willing to bet the house more people would ride a system to get to Baptist and Aetna, than successfully convincing the majority of people living in three luxury waterfront towers to ride buses on a regular basis.

The Waterborne transit thing never sounded like a realistic idea to me, so the hear that it may not work is no suprise.  I would have been happy to tell them this was a failure for half of the $200k paid to the consultant.

I'm also happy they are moving with the commuter rail/streetcar studies, but I'm REALLY concerned with the idea of spending the entire $100 million in BJP funds on BRT, without waiting to see the results of these other studies.  Everybody talks about being broke, but we have $100 million set aside for the purchase of a RAPID transit system and it looks like there's going to be a push to blow it on something that may not be needed in some particular areas.

When the commuter rail study is complete, I expect the two most feasible lines will be the FEC and CSX A.  In the event that this happens, there would be no need for the BRT lines paralleling them.  If this is true, why rush to spend the $100 million on bus storage yards and fueling facilities, when it could be used to get one of those more extensive/attractive lines up and running?

I also got a chance to speak with Mike Miller about the Council's Transportation Committee presentation.  I'll present for Metro Jacksonville and Mike will do a presentation for JTA.  However, the council wants to limit both of us to FIVE minutes each.  This issue is something that's 100 times more important than the courthouse and will be impossible for them to grasp, either way in five minutes.  It should be interesting to see how this goes.

[Lunican]

I find it unbelievable that the Council's Transportation Committee is limiting these presentations to five minutes. What exactly will they be talking about the rest of the time?

JTA wants to make a presentation on their 20 year rapid transit plan for this city and all they can get is five minutes? That's pretty irresponsible... and insulting too.

[second_pancake]

Cross the Acosta Bridge,
Exit the expressway and turn RIGHT into Baptist Medical Center/Wolfson/Nemouirs/Atnea
Left in front of the Baptist garages to Gary Street South of the I-95
Left on Gary St. with some busway completion and double direction running all the way to Kings Avenue Station.

I'm concerned with any BRT route going over the Acosta bridge.  The skyway is fine because it doesn't impede traffic or the shoulder, but several buses going up and over several times a day, even if it's in its own lane is not going to be pleasant for the pedestrians and cyclists that use that bridge as the only safe means to cross the river into Riverside/Downtown.

Cyclists can not use the sidewalks on the Acosta.  They are too narrow to allow both a cyclist and jogger/walker to pass safely, even if they were wider, we're talking about a bike traveling downhill at speeds in excess of 30mph.  I don't think any mother with a stroller, or jogger running uphill at a slow rate of speed is going to want to contend with what essentially equates to running in traffic. 

As it is today, while the shoulder is wide, the largest danger posed to cyclists are the freakin buses, and they aren't moving very fast.  On any given day, I can exit at Broad St. coming from San Marco and have a very close call with a bus driver that thinks he/she owns the road.  It's even worse coming back from Riverside down the San Marco exit.  For whatever reason, they like to ride right up your butt.  God forbid a cyclist should have a blow-out, they'd get run right over.

Aside from the safety issues of having the shoulder taken away, there's the pollution factor.  Let's face it, these buses aren't running on rosewater.  They'd more than likely be traveling to the far right (to allow for exiting), directly next to the pedestrian walkway.  Would anyone want to run or cycle the bridges while injesting diesel fumes the entire way?  If we HAVE to have a BRT route, couldn't it go over the I-95 bridge?

[thelakelander]

Cyclists? 

I don't think anyone has considered what you just mentioned.  That's a valid concern that has definately been overlooked.

[Lunican]

According to JTA, buses over the Acosta bridge will run in mixed traffic without dedicated lanes.

[second_pancake]

Cyclists? 

I don't think anyone has considered what you just mentioned.  That's a valid concern that has definately been overlooked.

That's why I'm here   Here's another tidbit about cyclists and the Acosta:  It's used for hill-training intervals for a great number of triathletes and bike racers preparing for races around the state and country.  During the spring and summer, on Thursday nights, you'll see anywhere from 30-50 cyclists riding up and over the bridge for an hour or more.  If you go to mapmyride.com and search for bike rides in Jacksonville, you'll see the majority of the long rides go over the Acosta.

According to JTA, buses over the Acosta bridge will run in mixed traffic without dedicated lanes.

Great.  So that means more buses traveling various routes all over the bridge ticking off drivers who will then drive more aggressively and possibly use the shoulder to pass. Sounds like fun.  I guess my only hope is that by the time this is actually put into action, I'll be too old to ride anymore.

[thelakelander]

They want to move forward with the Acosta Bridge plan no later than 2010 or 2011.

[Steve]

I don't get the whole "parallel the Skyway right next to three high-prices residential towers" thing either.  The two condo towers probably will be half empty to boot, since they are a lot of investment properties.

I guess it's good to hear that they are considering dumping the SW corridor BRT line, but they need to dump at least two more, the SE line and the North line.  The one to the East I would love to see dumped, but Commuter Rail is not an option (and that area is some of the least dense land in Jacksonville).

[thelakelander]

I'd love to see them delay the entire BRT concept, until the streetcar and commuter rail studies have been completed.  We have $100 million set aside for Rapid transit right-of-way and it may be better used for an integrated system from the get go, as opposed to being spent on BRT only.

[tufsu1]

The Acosta Brfidge has 5' - 8' shoulders...that should be plenty enough for the cyclists

[Charles Hunter]

I think I've asked before (maybe not, the brain cells don't fire like they used to) - is there a deadline for spending Better Jax Plan money?  I am sure I've heard it said that it must be spent by 2010??

[thelakelander]

I've heard 2010 as well, but I haven't seen any proof.  Nevertheless, JTA wants to start tappping into that money within the next month.

[Seraphs]

I think I've asked before (maybe not, the brain cells don't fire like they used to) - is there a deadline for spending Better Jax Plan money?  I am sure I've heard it said that it must be spent by 2010??

From what I gather all projects are expected to be completed by 2010.  I found no stipulation stating that 2010 would be a deadline.  I know the half cent tax for the BJP sunsets 2030 or maybe a few years before.

[PROTRANSIT]

JTA should hire you to do all their planning.