A Closer Look at the Transportation Center

[CS Foltz]

stjr............Your right! That is what the so-called Transportation Center is all about " gold plated edifice!" I wish I could put a wrench into their plans.............like prove their Budget right down to the last penny but that won't ever happen.......Council just rubber stamps JTA's and JEA's Budget and away they go......wasting money left and right! They can't fool me I know just what the hell is going on...........just wish I could prove it!

[Ocklawaha]

Someone asked me a question today that I could not answer.  Maybe you guys can.  Why do we need a "transportation center" now?  It's not as if we have streetcars, buses, trains, airport shuttles all running and needing an interconnection point.  Isn't there a bus and skyway express interconnection (Rosa Parks Center?) across the the FSCJ downtown campus?  Did I miss something at the beginning of the thread?

Is this whole "center" thing just an excuse for JTA to build itself some new, fancy offices?

It's a chicken and egg question, we can build new transit then when the situation becomes unmanegable we'll be forced into an expensive construction project. Or we can seize the day and get it over with.

You are correct that there is a Transit Center (a mini-hub) at the Rosa Parks AND at Kings Avenue, a completely haphazard one at Regency Square, and another with "Bus Stop" signs at the Avenues.
The Skyway was designed to have these in San Marco, 5-Points, Shand's, and the Stadium, true to form we quit in the middle - "Now we're getting BRT, and when it get's really full, we'll just slip rails under it and it's a train."  The Transportation Ranch that JTA has designed, is supposed to be like the highly successful multi-modal centers going up around the world. If the design was right, it would cause transit ridership to surge because of connectivity with AMTRAK RAIL, SKYWAY and future STREETCAR, COMMUTER RAIL, BUS and BRT.  But JTA needs some lessons:


If your planning BRT, then the few current routes that roughly follow the proposed BRT should start acting like BRT. PHASE IT IN - QUIT TALKING and start narrowing headways.

Long distance route equipment needs to change YESTERDAY. We need EAGLE 15's, MCI 4500's or other top of the line US made coaches. These routes, Cecil, OP, Mandarin, PVB, Mayport etc.. should be running with motor coaches and NOT buses. Provide a deluxe service and draw a deluxe passenger base of choice riders.

GET A RAIL GUY...

Sorry stjr, but quit making people in some of the most popular stops stand in puddles, or wait by the tree, or stand in the rain. AUDIT these routes and AUDIT the times different stops spring to life. For example a stop in front of one of our many small tech colleges may sit empty all day, then at 2:10 pm it explodes with 20 riders.

Become PRO-ACTIVE in supporting Transit and putting new concepts in place... .25 cent Sundays, or fare free days, fun things like red carpets, rider miles good in local restaurants... the list is endless.

Get fare collection OUT OF THE BUSES.

INSTRUCT ALL DRIVERS, that JTA will be a benevolent institution... There will be NO MORE instances of "GET OFF THE BUS" unless a passenger is violent, drunk or stoned and NEVER over fare issues. Lost passengers, children etc will be carried FREE whenever there is a dispute or safety factor.

Figure out what free transfers are and USE THEM.

Trust me, we won't lose passengers or revenue, we'll build a legacy system - the pride of Jacksonville.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

The origin of the Transportation Center goes back to the HSR proposal from 2000....voters approved the project, requiring it to be under construction within a few years....Gov. Jeb said it would bankrupt the state, and with his backing, the voters reversed course in 2004.

But funds had already been appropriated for HSR....a portion of those funds were redirected to planning and design for intermodal centers in Miami, Orlando, Tampa, and Jax....the first of these, the Miami Intermodal Center (MIC) is currently under construction.

[JaxNative68]

Personally I thinkit is RS&H's president Leary's old high school friendship with the Mayor stirring up old dead projects to help out his firm in a bad economy.  The whole city contract RS&H has is a sham.  It is similar to the other sham of the Mayor pulling the first courthouse design-build contract so he could give it to a struggling friend, aka the president of Auchter.  We see how well that worked  out.  The GOB is still alive and strong in Jax!

[stjr]

Sorry stjr, but quit making people in some of the most popular stops stand in puddles, or wait by the tree, or stand in the rain.

Ock, we had a whole thread on bus shelters, so you should well know, the issue with me and most others, was never about having shelters, just how they got paid.  If JTA can round up $60 million for new executive digs, they could and should have FIRST funded bus shelters for their CUSTOMERS where there might be a much better return on investment.  Doing so would have avoided the entire debate over advertising to support the shelters and the risk of opening the doors to the return of billboards.

We need more accuracy and precision on MJ when representing each others opinions. Please!

[JaxNative68]

Invest in the public user? What? Come on now, this is Jacksonville, where the leaders of public interest group invest in themselves first.  Then and only then do they think of the public user groups.

[Ocklawaha]

The origin of the Transportation Center goes back to the HSR proposal from 2000....voters approved the project, requiring it to be under construction within a few years....Gov. Jeb said it would bankrupt the state, and with his backing, the voters reversed course in 2004.

But funds had already been appropriated for HSR....a portion of those funds were redirected to planning and design for intermodal centers in Miami, Orlando, Tampa, and Jax....the first of these, the Miami Intermodal Center (MIC) is currently under construction.

Actually it doesn't TU, the JTC goes back to 1986, when the USDOT published a report on national rail needs for multimodal centers. I recall having it and it laid out that Jacksonville would need 12 tracks when the advance plans came about... That study is I believe what got the ball rolling in Florida and all across the country. I am still searching for an original of it, I've tried online at just about every combination of key words known to Transportation but can't find it... IT WAS ONLINE a few years ago. Anyway, I wanted to share it with you and the MJ team.

JaxNative68, awww shucks, I just let myself get carried away. As for the GOB being STRONG in Jacksonville, that might be true, but he sure the hell has shrunk.

stjr, take your medicine... Geeze Louise! I will continue to support ANY legal method that allows for new transit shelters. The damn things are expensive and the generic ones are damn ugly. For very little more we could have micro-stations that would blow your socks off, but it would require some sort of sponsors, Ad's or otherwise. The new ones on MUNI in San Francisco, have built in WIFI, all one does is log into MUNI... HELLO JTA? ANYBODY HOME? New's tickers on commuter coaches? Those come with advertisement's or did y'all know that? Your WIFI network that welcomes a host of JAX movers and shakers online each day can also carry ad's, promotions, schedules, JTA facts, etc. Just hit the red IMAGINE button on your dash.


OCKLAWAHA

[Dog Walker]

According to Railway Age there is movement in the passenger rail business:

http://www.railwayage.com/breaking-news/passenger-railcar-deliveries-at-eight-year-high.html 

[tufsu1]

Personally I thinkit is RS&H's president Leary's old high school friendship with the Mayor stirring up old dead projects to help out his firm in a bad economy.  The whole city contract RS&H has is a sham.  It is similar to the other sham of the Mayor pulling the first courthouse design-build contract so he could give it to a struggling friend, aka the president of Auchter.  We see how well that worked  out.  The GOB is still alive and strong in Jax!

think what you want...but RS&H has been working in the Transportation Center since at least 2005...back when the architecture/engineering firms weren't exactly struggling.

Ock...I'm sure you arfe right...but the current effort started in 2005 using the HSR money as per Jeb.

[kells904]

This thing is kinda ugly, but more importantly, it seems impractical.  Is it too late to fight this one?  If it's not, we need to force them into scrapping this and trying again.

[CS Foltz]

kells904..........we have been around and around on this one! Too much money, location issue's and not to say the least, other Bldg's could do the job at a lot cheaper price. Reduce the urban sprawl and recycle Bldgs that would be suited for what is planned..........IE Federal Bldg would be a better choice but JTA is bound and determined to go with new.........that is not necessary!

[Charles Hunter]

Does the Federal Reserve know you want to use their building for JTA?  It's "availability" was based on someone's speculation that because there are fewer checks being used, the Fed will abandon the building.  Is there any indication from the Federal Reserve that they might be shutting branches?  Also, I assume there are vaults and "hardened" areas inside - how practical would it be to modify this building that isn't available?  How much would that cost?

Regarding the old JEA Building - wouldn't fiscal conservatives scream (including several here) about JTA buying a 19 story building, then renovating it (I bet there is asbestos out the wazoo, it was built in the 1950s) when they only need 4 - that's all they are building at the Transportation Center.  It seems obvious, the City doesn't need the office space, or they would have had the ability to take it before JEA sold it a few years ago.

[CS Foltz]

Charles........the Fed Bldg has signs saying "Office space for Lease" so the Fed will still have some business being conducted site or they may be thinking of moving. Since there is "For Lease" signs outside I would think that there is room for JTA to set up shop. Hardened Building would be ideal for the ITS system, hurricane proof and controled entrances. Besides if they only need 4 floors and wanted to go to the old JEA Bldg, long term lease! Still cheaper than spending $60 Million to eat up real estate and we are recycling exsiting Bldgs and doing our part to slow urban sprawl! As to why the City did not buy that Bldg, thats simple..........none of the GOB's would be able to drain our pockets and make some more money to line their pockets! Anything can be modified within reason or renovated...........I mean look at the Prime Osburn!

[Charles Hunter]

hmmm ... I wouldn't use the Prime Osborn as a prime example of a good renovation, CS! 
Someone should call that number and ask what they are leasing. How many square feet are they leasing? Maybe it is only a sandwich shop? 

[CS Foltz]

I agree Mr Charles............Prime is not a glaring good example of much of anything other than lining GOB's pockets at our expense! Not built for and too small, ill-located...........and on & on to be a Convention Center! That is something that should be a "Transportation Center" and I mean that building in particular. JTA does not need to spend $60 Million Dollars (Phase one only) for something new and exciting? This is something for some of those consultants to pick up on............like tufsu1 who appears to be hardwired into the system. I mean I could call.......infact I think I will. I need to go downtown on Tuesday and that is not out of the way too much!