Is Downtown Going Down the Tubes?

[jeh1980]

I don't think that downtown is going down the tubes. I like downtown, but I would like to see more variety. There are a few shops and restaurants that are just opening in downtown even as I speak. But sometimes, I feel that the Mayor and the staff were not doing enough to make downtown Jacksonville a 24hr. downtown that it should be. Some restaurants were open from 7am till 2pm or 4. Even the "L.A. Cafe" at the AT&T Building open from 7am till 2pm and I like some of their stuff. That place would be real good if they would extended their hours. But I heard that would not be the case. I find that the city want to attract vistors with a picture-perfect shot of our downtown's northbank with the St. John's River telling everyone like you and me that downtown is a great place to visit. That might be true on some counts...with the Jacksonville Symphony Orchestra, the Times Union Center, the Florida Theater, our Library, JMOCA, Friendship Fountain, the sport complex (mostly the live concerts @ the arena and our beloved Jaguars) and the annual Art Walk. They are all good, don't get me wrong, but visitor from out of town need more variety that all of that. That need more than just our downtown northbank backdrop with the St. John's River on the foreground. They need even more fun and excitement. I don't mean to complain about downtown because I like to visit there because of the heights and the sights, but in my honest opinion, we need to have more variety than what we can offer for the visitors and they expect more. Mayor Peyton and the city council got to have an explaination about what we all just read. And they all got to think of something to REALLY attract people and business to come here. I know that they all want to be in Jacksonville for the long haul. The Mayor and the council need to give them a chance. We are not Mayberry...or "Jacksontucky"(what kind of a name is that to nickname our town). Ain't we the 12th largest city in America? We are, but we must prove that to the entire world. Don Redman needs to think of something to help us stop all the murmuring and complaining we all been writing on this crazy MetroJacksonville.com site, we all due respect. Just call him up @ 630-7372 and let's put an end to this foolishness! Jesus Loves You and may you always love one another.

[dknighton]

Having lived in Jacksonville the majority of my life, I can tell you that nothing will ever change in this town until we as a collective unit shed ourselves of this massive inferiority complex that has been ingrained in us over countless years.  It permeates everything we do....the people we elect....the decisions we make, as a city.  We have got to stop saying to ourselves, "Atlanta does this" or "Orlando has that".  We are not any other city.  Of course we can use other cities as examples, but in the end we must decide what is best for our downtown.

The first step the people of this city need to take is to stop electing people from the "good ol boy" network to office.  We need innovative thinkers who aren't afraid to stir the pot or step on the conservative religious right's considerably large toes.  I can tell you first hand from conversations I've had...there are those among the church-going population who would be perfectly happy to see downtown remain as it is:  A place to work by day, and a homeless shelter at night.  There are those walking among us who take it upon themselves to be the "moral conscience" of this city, who think we should all be in Church on Sundays, and spending Saturdays at Chuck E. Cheese or a suburban mall.  Anything representative of culture or art or style has no redeeming value to these people.

But they will only be successful if we allow them to be.  There are more positive and good things in store for the future of this city, if only we will speak up!

[stephenc]

Here we go again trying to blame people who go to church for the problems with downtown.  The problems with downtown have nothing to do with the "religious right".

[dknighton]

Well, the fact is, I don't see any atheists, agnostics or humanists being elected to office, or forcing BRT down our throats, or asking ridiculous amounts of rent for buildings barely up to code, or building pointless parks without so much as an RFP.  No, they're all "good, decent, Christians".

[stephenc]

Maybe you oughta move to San Fransico. 

[fsujax]

Well, the fact is, I don't see any atheists, agnostics or humanists being elected to office, or forcing BRT down our throats, or asking ridiculous amounts of rent for buildings barely up to code, or building pointless parks without so much as an RFP.  No, they're all "good, decent, Christians".

and how do you know all of this? please share the details of where these people who are asking high rent rates attend church.

[RiversideGator]

Well, the fact is, I don't see any atheists, agnostics or humanists being elected to office, or forcing BRT down our throats, or asking ridiculous amounts of rent for buildings barely up to code, or building pointless parks without so much as an RFP.  No, they're all "good, decent, Christians".

How is it then that us Christian conservatives not have yet managed to kill off Five Points and San Marco?   

[downtownparks]

In fairness RG, it wasn't for lack of trying. I seem to remember a little episode in the late 90s where the Fire Marshall went though and basically shut every club in Jax down, or at least cut their capacity to a quarter of what it was. Guess which church he had ties to?

[Lunican]

What about Don Redman, the city councilman for downtown. Doesn't he have some kind of opinion on bars and drinking in general?

[thelakelander]

Is he even concerned about downtown?  There hasn't been much about him and his opinions on downtown since he got elected.

[RiversideGator]

In fairness RG, it wasn't for lack of trying. I seem to remember a little episode in the late 90s where the Fire Marshall went though and basically shut every club in Jax down, or at least cut their capacity to a quarter of what it was. Guess which church he had ties to?

I dont remember this at all (although I may have been out of town at the time).  Do you have a source to support this?

[David]

In fairness RG, it wasn't for lack of trying. I seem to remember a little episode in the late 90s where the Fire Marshall went though and basically shut every club in Jax down, or at least cut their capacity to a quarter of what it was. Guess which church he had ties to?

I dont remember this at all (although I may have been out of town at the time).  Do you have a source to support this?

I remember this pretty well, as this  was during my prime "clubbing" years.

From what I can recall, the reason they were shutting down alot of the clubs because of the extacy epidemic that was sweeping all the late night joints like evolutions, an afterhours place that served no booze and didn't open until 3 am. Club 5 was getting raided a good bit too along with a few other scattered ones around the city. It seems like that scene died off awhile back....or it could be i'm 9 years older and am outta touch. Either way though. I think it was more to do with the rampant drug use inspired by the rave scene of the late 90's.

[stephenc]

OK. We live a very religious city. Who here doesnt have ties to some church. Come on guys!!

[downtownparks]

Tony, you might be right on one level. There was a lot of little no-name clubs that played nothing but raver music, and had no beer and wine and stayed open till 4am. But a lot of long standing institutions went by the wayside too. Club 5 was forced to install a very expensive fire system, and even then was only allowed half of its previous capacity, Milk Bar was forced to consolidate with the Paradome, which became 618. Motolounge, which was a swing bar, was shut down, there was another one over on Hendrix that was a ska/swing bar that was shut down because a christian book store moved in next door. Dash Riprocks at the beach and on university were shut down, I dont remember why The Edge shut down but it did around that same time.

I remember hearing a good number of them were fire marshal crack downs, and the cost to get legal was far beyond what the vast majority of them could afford.

Yes, Stephenc, many people have ties to churches, but few churches in town are as prolific in having their hand in everything as the FBC.

I wish them no ill-will, I just wish they would let things happen downtown organically, rather than forcing everything to be in line with their values.

Imagine if we had the Milkbar, Motolounge, and 618 all still on Adams St along with BG, London Bridge, and Bay St TC.

[hank]

Crap... now I have to add stall wort churches to the list of things working against downtown!  Anyway, DK you are right about the Jacksonvillian inferiority complex: being new to the area, the self-loathing around here hit me like a ton of bricks!  Sure there's a lot to loathe I guess - but how will that ever change if that is what we continue expect of our leaders... ourselves?