Whats going on in Five Points?

[stephendare]

Apparently Fuel is closed---although there are rumours that it will reopen as the site of Democratic Party activity.

Ragland's seems to be doing ok, Starlight is still going strong (despite the occasional violence) and rumor has it that the Shad's are planning on converting the Five Points Building into a dinner theatre.

which is, two places actually open and two maybes.

Did Heartworks finally close?

[stephenc]

When did Fuel close? That sucks!!

[thelakelander]

Gentrification...

Shantytown, Boomtown and the Pearl seem to be doing good in Springfield.  What will it take to get the Five Points crowd over to Main Street?  What's the biggest obstacle?  Is it leasing rates, available buildings, building conditions or a mixture of all three?

[fsujax]

I have noticed several empty storefronts in the Five Points area recently.

[thelakelander]

I wonder will an alternative district spring up (I hope) or will everything follow the general pattern of this city and get spread out to the point where few notice.

[copperfiend]

When did Fuel close? That sucks!!

I didn't know either. I used to go there on Friday nights after work. They were one of the first to ban smoking inside.

[downtownparks]

The Just had a show there on Sunday. I believe the US Bombs, and some other bands. I know French Quarter shut down over on Philips hiway to become a mexican restaurant. and Thee Imperial shutdown last summer, but has been booking for Fuel.

As an aside, it does seem more activity is being seen on Main. Doozers Pub, a little punk bar, has an active band schedule up around 63rd and Main, Shanty of course has done well. Pearl seems to have a consistent crowd, and I think we are having success at 9th and Main with great food and entertainment options.

[hank]

I don't think Fuel is necessarily closed.  Raglands and Fuel are owned by the same person and he is currently renovating Raglands' interior - and he's doing all the work himself!  Perhaps this is just a case of attention being focused elsewhere temporarily.  Fuel is also doubling as a practice space I think because I am constantly seeing dudes in there making "noise".

Overall, the net business at 5-points is probably even (if you count the speculation) because I heard from one of the owners that there is also a Japanese steakhouse and another boutique planned to open.

[stephenc]

The japanese restaurant is opening at the corner of park and post. They have some signs up.

[thelakelander]

It does seem to have diminished a lot as of lately.  I suspect that the coming economic downturn is going to help Five Points.  It formed during the last Bush Recession, as the suburban entertainment establishments collapsed creating a public demand for entertainment and the low rent from the rundown district appealed to young entreprenuers.

It would be nice to see Jim reinvent, however.  It doesnt take a large place to reignite a scene, just large people with contagious ideas and enthusiasm, but he does have a great position in the neighborhood.

I think Five Points has forever changed, regardless of an economic downturn.  Leasing rates will never be as low as they were 15 - 20 years ago when it originally took off.  Even with a downturn, there's several centralized locations over town that can provide the same type of atmosphere Five Points had in the 1990s, with lower rents available. 

[thelakelander]

It depends on the human element, I would say.

How do lease rates play into this?  I mean the human element would love to see these types of things in downtown, but high lease rates, parking issues, etc. prohibits it from becoming a reality.

[Steve]

How do lease rates play into this?  I mean the human element would love to see these types of things in downtown, but high lease rates, parking issues, etc. prohibits it from becoming a reality.

That's very true - for example, I don't know of anyone who is OPPOSED to downtown developing.  There are only so many people willing to be pioneers.

[Eazy E]

Okay, first of all Fuel closed?No it didn't.  SO that right there tells everyone how informed you are and how much credence we should give anything you write.
Secondly, Wow, I didn't realize that the sole reason 5 Points was successful back in the 80s/90s was because of you and how cool everything you did was. That is amazing. Can I touch you?

Third, to quote: "There are a whole lot of the people needed to creatively push forward over there, but I think there are more of that type who are also MOTIVATED in springfield."
Then STEP THE F**K UP.  I have friends working their asses off in 5 Points, and they do a lot more with their work then people do in Springfield.  Say, uh, Boomtown for example.

I wonder will an alternative district spring up (I hope) or will everything follow the general pattern of this city and get spread out to the point where few notice.


I think Five Points has forever changed, regardless of an economic downturn.  Leasing rates will never be as low as they were 15 - 20 years ago when it originally took off.  Even with a downturn, there's several centralized locations over town that can provide the same type of atmosphere Five Points had in the 1990s, with lower rents available.

Lastly, Why does the theme have to be 5 Points vs. Springfield? Everyone should support each other, I know I do-- except for the more-than-occasional poorly run restaurant in the 'field.
And, OF COURSE 5 POINTS ISN'T THE SAME AS IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO! What is? That is 2 F'ING decades.  Everything evolves, and the district that is there now is more in the spirit of the 5 Points of yore than anywhere else in Jacksonville.

[thelakelander]

Lastly, Why does the theme have to be 5 Points vs. Springfield? Everyone should support each other, I know I do-- except for the more-than-occasional poorly run restaurant in the 'field.
And, OF COURSE 5 POINTS ISN'T THE SAME AS IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO! What is? That is 2 F'ING decades.  Everything evolves, and the district that is there now is more in the spirit of the 5 Points of yore than anywhere else in Jacksonville.

lol, breathe Eazy E, baby breathe.  Its not that serious.  Its just a conversation on a message board and my opinion is just.....an opinion, like yours.  There's no reason to get an ulcer over some comment over the internet.

Mr. Boomtown will have to speak for himself, however I'll be glad to explain my concerns.  I have nothing against Five Points.  I fact, I'm a supporter than frequents the spot on a regular basis and wish the strip nothing but the best.  Its a place that makes Jacksonville special and we need more areas like it.  However, I'm also a realist.  Its no secret that cities evolve as time goes on and there's a level of gentification taking place as lease rates rise and chain stores/restaurants start to enter the picture.  I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because every cosmopolitan and vibrant city needs diversity. 

My concern is that if some businesses have to leave for growth/change, at least see if the possibility to relocate to other ideal urban spots takes place.  Springfield is one of those spots that I believe may be an ideal alternative for businesses that have to move on.  But I think the same about commercial strips like Edgewood Av, Park & King, Downtown and Hendricks.  The more the merrier in my book.  So don't think my intents have anything to do with a Five Points vs. Springfield.  Everyone should support each other.  You know the saying....united we stand, divided we fall.

Long live Five Points.

[RiversideGator]

Five Points is healthier than ever.  In fact, the retail district which once encompassed the original few blocks east and south of the intersection of Park, Margaret and Lomax Streets has now almost doubled in size.  It now goes all the way down Margaret to Riverside Ave with the addition of the Publix shopping center and the 1661 retail and around Riverside to Goodwin.  It also now runs down Oak to Goodwin with the Al's Pizza strip.  All of this has been built since the last "Bush recession" in 1991 (I wonder why Stephen never refers to the good times as the Bush Boom?).   

So, naturally you will have some vacancies periodically as some places fail and some move around (like Smoothie King which is moving from the current Park Street location to a new one on Lomax in the ground floor of 1661).  This natural state of flux is part of the free market known as creative destruction.  Also, it is significantly more upscale in Five Points than it was in 1990 or even 2000 when dive bars and restaurants still predominated.  This has been hastened by the rehabbing of the adjacent residential sections and the addition of many new condos to the area, all of which has brought in a demographic with much more disposable income.  So, I expect Five Point's upward trajectory to continue, and this is a good thing.