Mica: Florida 1 of 4 finalists for federal high-speed rail money

[Ocklawaha]

Ock, that's not a fair comparison....three reasons:

1. The notheast corridor includes local trains as well as the Acela service
2. remember that many local northeast trains are also long distance trains going to Richmond, the Carolinas, Florida, etc.
3. Since Amtrak doesn't own the tracks outside the northeast, they have very few capital costs....take the capital costs out of the northeast corridor and compare the routes on operations only and see how they stand up!

Doesn't matter tufsu1, the NEC also runs freight for CSX, NS, CN, CP and a host of regional carriers, so their cost figures would not be markedly different except on very high speed track.
Where the amazing part of the new findings (the second that I posted was from AMTRAK itself in 2008, when they finally admitted that long distance was the money maker and not the NEC) comes into play is that there are 18 routes that serve our entire nation. Not 19, just 18. Hell TUFSU1, I can remember when Jacksonville had more then 18 routes that originated or terminated here. We are talking the entire long-distance roster of the United States of America is 18 lousy routes, and all but Florida are single train daily or worse, tri-weekly.

Yet out of those deplorable numbers comes this, those 18 "trains" account for 42/48% of all of Amtrak's passengers! There isn't a train in the corridor that comes even close to that, and it all boils down to PMPTM (Passenger Miles Per Train Mile) the standard yardstick of the industry. A passenger going from end to end on the Acela can hope for only 181 miles, but the same passenger on the Southwest Chief will log 2,250. There is simply no way the numbers for a "highly profitable" corridor can stand in the face of this accounting. The long-legged Chiefs, Sunset's and Empire Builders will blow the competition away.


Raton, NM at train time. We aren't in the NEC anymore Toto.

One only need stand at Winslow; AZ, Raton, NM; Needles, CA; Minot, ND; or Palatka, FL; to have the long distance Epiphany. Train time in these tiny cities/large farm market towns is a social event. Been there done that:

''Well, I'm a standing on a corner
in Winslow, Arizona
and such a fine sight to see
It's a girl, my Lord, in a flatbed
Ford slowin' down to take a look at me
Come on, baby, don't say maybe
I gotta know if your sweet love is
gonna save me
We may lose and we may win though
we will never be here again
so open up, I'm climbin' in,
so take it easy''

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Ock...I read the Amtrak 2008 statement as saying that long distance routes aren't the severe money loser that people think they are...and that the NEC isn't as successful as some think it is....but it still seems that they are saying the NEC requires less subsidy percentage-wise.

[CS Foltz]

Been to Winslow Az ......very nice town! It would seen from a laymens point of view that the longer the route the better it would be from a cost effective point of view! Seen many trains carrying Containers stacked two high or Containers loaded on dolly's for transportation at other end. Make cost effective sense to me to move many many Containers at one time........small loads coast to coast via truck, max is 80K over the open roads, three to four days, team drivers is slowly dying off due to rest requirements and the like!

[tufsu1]

Considering that high speed rail between Tampa and Orlando is going to cost a lot more than what could possibly be awarded, what is Florida's plan for the rest of the funding?

here's your answer....FDOT now has the ability to seek financing and then get repaid through ticket revenues.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/state/rail-special-session-gave-dot-unprecedented-clout-136307.html

[CS Foltz]

Got no problem with ticketing picking up the tab.........but I would have to ask, just what kind of price are we talking about here? There has to be a limit to entice riders with something cost effective....$100 Dollars for a 60 mile run maybe a bit much don't you think? I am also assuming the $2 Dollar tax on rental auto's will be in the mix?

[tufsu1]

CS...the specific fares have not been set, but the feasibility studies assumed the highest fare would be $30 for the express train from downtown Tampa to OIA.

Obviously there wll be a delicate balance (just like hotels and airplanes have)...don't want to give it away but don't want empty traisn either.

[tufsu1]

Update on northeast rail...

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/12/17/rail_stimulus_funds_to_bypass_northeast/

[CS Foltz]

CS...the specific fares have not been set, but the feasibility studies assumed the highest fare would be $30 for the express train from downtown Tampa to OIA.

Obviously there wll be a delicate balance (just like hotels and airplanes have)...don't want to give it away but don't want empty traisn either.

tufsu1 ....I am apprehensive about "Feasibilty Studies" which are usually slanted towards the people who paid to have the study done.........any report can be either slanted or biased in one direction or the other! Use of the word "Assumed" translate into someones guess whether they are proffesionals or not..........I look at the first three letters of that word and thats usually what comes out of it! I hate that word!