Re-Imagining the Jacksonville Landing

[hiddentrack]

What's wrong with that!

btw, teal would be a nice feature and at least tie in with something locally.

Yeah, that's what I was going for. A friend (not here in Jax) who was watching one of the night games a few years ago mentioned that the "building on the river" he saw looked like it would be rooting for the Dolphins.

A new color/motif will help create that perception.  Teal sounds good to me. Silver paint is too run of the mill.

I agree. Teal is my preference, but I'm a Jaguars fan. I figured silver would work better for the folks who would use the new color as an excuse to blame the Jaguars for the changes they didn't like.

[vicupstate]

How many restaurants/bars can one site support?  I think there is a need and a demand for the appropriate types of retail, particularly unique local retail.  If not inthe Landing itself then in the Laura Street corridor.

One other thing, I think it is VERY important to not do the planning for the Landing in a vacuum.  It needs to be done in CONJUNCTION with the redevelopment of the courthouse/city hall annex site, and the area immediately surrounding the Landing, and also the Laura Street plans.  

[Bike Jax]

I like some of the ideas presented here. I however do not like the idea of changing street patterns. If  a planned development does not fit does not fit within the current grid. Then that developer need to rethink the project and look up. I also think the Riverwalk should be given some extra space as over time it has become a major transportation corridor for both bicycles and pedestrians.

[fsu813]

as Jth mentioned, they weren't asked to be practical. I'd like to see the couple cut outs in the Landing too.....

but a couple roundabouts, more parking, updated landscaping, and a turn from retail focused to entertainment/hotel focus would do wonders. And be far less expensive it would seem.

[Ocklawaha]

I would agree with Overstreet, having misspent my youth living at a marina a block North of Daytona Beach Cris-Craft, this marina is fantasy. Marina expansion could go on the south bank from the Acosta to the JEA site, but that north sweep, makes this location very poor. Even something as wild as creating a basin where the courtyard is today would probably fail due to scour from the current.

Changing Water Street with the roundabouts makes for a crappy streetcar route, changing the curves into corners and rerouting the whole street, makes it downright unattractive for Light Rail.

A zip line? Really? What kind of liability would that be? Why not a Schweeb Monorail system? A true one of a kind attraction in downtown and perhaps up the riverfront. We COULD do that as Lake said without doing anything else to the current buildings. I know, it's Jacksonville, so 30 years from now, after 80 cities copy the idea, will we do it then?

Lastly, everyone missed the number one engine of development available to us today... STREETCARS!

OCKLAWAHA

[Jth]

How many restaurants/bars can one site support?  I think there is a need and a demand for the appropriate types of retail, particularly unique local retail.  If not inthe Landing itself then in the Laura Street corridor.

One other thing, I think it is VERY important to not do the planning for the Landing in a vacuum.  It needs to be done in CONJUNCTION with the redevelopment of the courthouse/city hall annex site, and the area immediately surrounding the Landing, and also the Laura Street plans.  

The way the group was asked to think about the visioning was from the standpoint of fixing the Landing and also incorporating it into the fabric of downtown. Most people there didn't know what was going on in Downtown Jax, so the charrette was very Landing-centric. You are absolutely right though and I imagine anything that is ever done to change the Landing will be done so with the rest of Downtown in mind.

I don't think the Landing can support much more, and I think it would be in downtown's best interest to push all the bars/restaurants towards Bay Street and retail in a corridor (Laura Street). That is why I lobbied within my group to try to convert the Landing to as much residential/hotel/office space as possible. This way the other uses could go to locations that make downtown as a whole much more vibrant.

I think most of the group was against the idea of a suburban style shopping center in the midst of an urban area. Yet it was difficult to do anything sound from a planning standpoint without tearing the whole darn thing down.

[Ocklawaha]

How many restaurants/bars can one site support? 

Guess that depends on where I'm drinking... Ohhhh! SOCO! Awayyyyyyyy!

Here is the Schweeb Monorail I mentioned:
http://www.youtube.com/v/lhxVtUFZVzk&hl=en_US&fs=1&color1=0x402061&color2=0x9461ca&border=1


OCKLAWAHA

[Special K]

Just watched that video Bob. The Schweeb monorail is awesome. I'm entirely fascinated by it. Did he say Tokyo? Man my ancestors are sweet. Haha.

Anyway, as much as I dislike putting my opinion out there, I'm trying to break from my tiny shell and stop living under that mossy rock where I clearly spend too much time.
I really like the idea of the landing turning into just entertainment, bars, and restaurants. I believe it could do really well that way. And it most certainly could use a new color scheme, and a landscape make over. I'm not sure teal would be the best answer for the color, but I see where you're coming from. Something a little more trendy perhaps. Something that really draws the eyes from a distance in a pleasant way. Teal is just fine for a football team. But a building? Too much for me.

[Captain Zissou]

I'd only support the Schweeb if they had passing lanes.  I can already see myself getting stuck behind some slow poke.

Correction: Just saw the part about connecting and working with the person in front of you. AMAZING

[north miami]

Vision:

Unencumbered vision

Remove most of the buildings from the current Landing site,allowing for 'vista' and open spaces.

This concept is not new.

[JaxLanding]

We were so impressed with all the vision, time and detail that the APA attendees put into the charrette.  Most of the participants were not from the Jacksonville area, so it was interesting to see the input from a variety of individuals.  Prior to us taking them on the "Behind the Scenes" tour, we gave them a little background information (told them that when we were first opened we were retail heavy, that the Rouse Company had offered two-year leases to many of the big name tenants to get them in the door, and we were honest with how things have changed over the years and expressed specific struggles we have had and currently have).  Again, the presentation was very brief and we tried not to give them too much so as not to take away from any creative thinking that could come in to play.  Before they put their pencils to the paper, they were also asked to not bring funding into the equation (pretend you have all the money in the world and the only goal is make best use of the space).
Given all of that information, what the planners presented was amazing.  All groups tried to cover everything including parking, logisitcs and greenspace.  Without even knowing the full story, many of them could identify with issues that we currently have that specifically speak to the future success of not only The Landing, but downtown Jacksonville as a whole.
Again, we thank each and every member that took the time to come and participate in this charrette!! 

[Steve]

I think one thing to remember is that we are all familiar with what is going on along Bay Street (and obviously there are a lot of people aware, based on Saturday night on Bay St, there are still hundreds of thousands of people that if you asked them about downtown, they know only the sports complex, the Landing, and the Convention Center.  Honestly, I truly believe that the Landing MUST succeeed for Downtown to Succeed.  Like it or not, it, the Main Street Bridge, and Friendship Fountain is our postcard shot.

I'm totally for the mixed use, but the idea that you can't do something with the existing structure is frankly laughable.  If 13 Gypsies in Riverside can make a full service restaraunt in a 25x10 retail space work, than the landing can work as is.

There is plenty that can be done with the existing structure, and if you want to expand, consider expanding it into where the Andrew Jackson statue is now (since it will be moved in January). This is assuming that the City will sell him the land, which they should have done long ago (if you want to guarantee the structure, consider not selling him the courtyard land, or the land under the structure that you want to remove to open it up).

I just think that for these things to work, that we need to stay within some realistic boundaries, which is obviously not what happened here.  

[Overstreet]

OCKLAWAHA,

Before you dig out the court yard for a boat basin, stop. There are major utilities that prevent that long before scour becomes a problem.

For all,
The roof and steel structure was meant to give reference to the past industrial nature of the river.   
The roof is prefinished. You can paint it, but those usually don't come out well in the long run.

When I was doing the TUPAC next door I don't remember a crowded courtyard at lunch time. The air-conditioned food court was full. I suspect moving the food court outside in the Laura St gap for summer dining was from one of the northern planners.

For the Landing,
Make sure to have your contractor provide preconstruction services to any new design that you become serious with or the budget will mushroom out of control.  If you need assistance above your in-house contractor's capability I can connect you with a qualified company.

[Overstreet]

Vision:
Unencumbered vision

Remove most of the buildings from the current Landing site,allowing for 'vista' and open spaces.

This concept is not new.

Well yes, that is not a new concept. It used to be a parking lot with lots of vistas of the river from Water Street.

[Ocklawaha]

Just watched that video Bob. The Schweeb monorail is awesome. I'm entirely fascinated by it. Did he say Tokyo? Man my ancestors are sweet. Haha.

Anyway, as much as I dislike putting my opinion out there, I'm trying to break from my tiny shell and stop living under that mossy rock where I clearly spend too much time.
I really like the idea of the landing turning into just entertainment, bars, and restaurants. I believe it could do really well that way. And it most certainly could use a new color scheme, and a landscape make over. I'm not sure teal would be the best answer for the color, but I see where you're coming from. Something a little more trendy perhaps. Something that really draws the eyes from a distance in a pleasant way. Teal is just fine for a football team. But a building? Too much for me.

Hey SpecialK, Yup he said Tokyo, at least that was his inspiration for the green monorail. I think along the river walk, and set higher then the one in the clip so people could pass underneath it, would be nice, dipping down and swinging out a bit over the river would be awesome!

I wouldn't worry about coming out from under the mossy rock, I kind of like it under there!

Okay so no teal? How about PURPLE!

OVERSTREET, I wasn't going to dig anything, just making a point that ANYTHING in the river at that location, including the sea wall and bulkheads are all under constant attack from the river. If we come back in 10,000 years that bend will have moved to 8Th and Main and the Hart bridge will be over an oxbow.


REALLY, we should all remember, it's not nice to mess with mother nature.

OCKLAWAHA