Free to Good Home: Carrier USS John F. Kennedy

[Ocklawaha]

Ock - it can be done, it just takes some imagination. It can be done, if the city wants it to be done. No where else for it to go here in Jax, but there.

Kind of moot anyway my friend, none of them will clear JEA and the Broward Bridge! Can you spell TNT or K4?  These landlubber F@#K up's in our city will keep us as the unfinished furniture and waffle house capital of the world. Hell I'm going to go uncork a carton of Titanic Beer, remember with Titanic, it always goes down fast, stays ice cold. I'm done now...

"Tattoo, tattoo lights out in five minutes."

OCKLAWAHA

[Reaper man]

I think if it's going to go anywhere, it'll probably be mayport.

Makes sense, right?

[urbanlibertarian]

I seem to remember when they were talking about doing this with the Saratoga they said they would have to lop the superstructure off above the flight deck to get it downtown and then put it back.

[danno]

I dont remember....... why did the Saratoga bid flop?

[blizz01]

why did the Saratoga bid flop?

$$$$

I really think we need to crawl before we walk - Let's get the Charles F Adams here first:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php?topic=6598.0

Reading this morning's article in the TU, it would appear that there are other options as well:

five aircraft carriers - Forrestal, Saratoga, Ranger, Independence and Constellation - are hanging around awaiting new owners.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-11-26/story/christmas_gift_idea_maybe_the_uss_john_f_kennedy

[buckethead]

Looks like Boston wants it. Even if Jacksonville had a clue/inclination to go after it, it would be very hard to beat Boston out for it.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/11/city_councilor_1.html

IMO, the right spot for the USS John F Kennedy would be in Boston Harbor.

[Jason]

This topic has been brought up before....



Here are some images I threw together a while back.  This carrier is to scale.



At the shipyards... if ever built....














At the old Ford factory at Tallyrand....













At Friendship park....(Note that this is impossible.  No way to get it pass the Main St. Bridge)

[Jason]

A carrier is WAY to big for downtown unless its at the old Ford factory.  IMO, we need a destroyer or something similar at the Friendship site or along the docks by the Courthouse.

[Jason]

.....Man, i really wish Riverwatch was built.  That is the one building that would have set the skyline on fire, IMO.

[mtraininjax]

Before we all succomb to sending the JFK to the razor blade mill, look at these stats:

Length, overall: 1,050 feet (320 meters)
Flight Deck Width: 267 feet (81.4 meters)
Beam: 128 feet (39.2 meters)
Draft: 36,7 feet (11.2 meters)

Hart bridge info:
141 feet clearance to river

Matthews bridge info:
152 feet clearance to river

Dames Point bridge info:
160 feet clearance to river

So the width of the JFK must be the issue to clear the bridges, I suppose.

[Charles Hunter]

You don't have a stat for height "above the water line", or "keel to top" - both significant numbers when discussing bridge heights.  Although I am not a sailor, but I am pretty sure that "draft" is the distance below the water, from the water line to the keel.  For that, I think we have enough river depth, at least as far as the Hart - not sure about upriver from there.

According to wikipedia, the height from the water line to the top of the mast is 192 feet.  Or 17' more than Dames Point, and 51' more than Hart.  From some have said, some of that height can be removed for such purposes.
Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_John_F._Kennedy_%28CV-67%29  strangely, the more official sites did not have this detail.

All that said, I'm still concerned about the scenic impact a 1,050 foot long, and nearly 20 stories tall, presence would have downtown.  Where's our resident building modeler? Maybe a rendering of it tied up along the Shipyards or JEA site - parallel to the shore, as it appears to be longer than the river is able to handle downtown.

[Jason]

This Shipyards images are above, just not parallel.  For a good idea of how big this thing really is, picture the approximately 3 1/2 blocks the new courthouse takes up... or stand it on end and see it soar over the BofA tower.

IMO, there is no place downtown except the old Ford factory that this thing would fit.  That's assuming you can get it under the Dames Point.

[samiam]

IMO the ford plant would make an excellent sight for the Kennedy. There would be room for several smaller ships as well as aircraft in and around the plant and a portion of the plant could hold a museum to American manufacturing. Imagine a display of several model T's being assembled

[sandyshoes]

What about somewhere near Jaxport?  The BIG ships can already get there, so maybe there's a place they could anchor it that wouldn't obscure commerce and anchor just far enough away that visitors to the ship wouldn't pose a security risk to Jaxport operations.  (I'm not an Old Salt, obviously - I have a sinking feeling : )  the Kennedy is light years larger than any container ship that can access Jaxport.)  ?

[Ocklawaha]

The Kennedy is

Length, overall 1052 feet
Flight Deck Width 252 feet
Beam 130 feet
height, 192 feet
draft, 37 feet

Thus it will NOT fit under the Broward/Dames Point Bridge on 9A/295E and no other bridge is even close to the correct clearance:

Bridge      Type  Clearance  Miles  
Dames Point Fixed    169'    5.7    
Matthews     Fixed    152'    16.1    
Hart             Fixed    135'    17.3    
Main Street Lift    40'    18.4    Closed to Boat Traffic 7-9am & 4-6pm except Sundays & Holidays
Acosta    Fixed    75'    19.6    
FL East Coast RR    Lift    5'    19.6    
Fuller-Warren (I-95) Fixed 65' 19.6    
Buckman (I-295)        Fixed 65' 28.8    
Shands    Fixed    45'    46.0

Also looking at Jason's excellent work, I think the measurements are right on. A Kennedy type ship moored right up next to the wall at the Shipyards site, would extend the length of the longest pier plus 1/3 more, reaching the channel. At the Acosta South Bank site it actually goes about 2/3Rd's of the way across the river, blocking the channel.

The river is from 8' to 42' deep on the east side of the Acosta Bridge, from 5' to 37' to 61' at the Shipyards pier, so either location would take tons of dredging. Off the east end of the old Ford plant the water is only 22' but it's only a few feet from the channel at 33' feet, on the northside of the location the water is from 4' to 10' deep. The Trout River is very shallow ranging from 1' foot to 11' at it's deepest! So even if we could get under the bridge it would be expensive to make a hole deep enough to go in the northside. The Broward River is shallower where the channel meets the river then it is at the Hecksher Drive Bridge, which is a whopping 11' feet. Dunn's Creek is worse. The area on the north shore of Bartram Island (which is 30' feet high) is very close to the channel and frankly would make a great spot to expand the port in the future if an exit/entrance off the Broward could be engineered on the low, south end of the bridge.

THERE IS A SPOT, In the Blount Island East Channel, just east of the railroad which crosses over Hecksher Drive and then over the channel itself. East of the railroad bridge and tucked hard against the Hecksher side, moored parallel to the shore, the channel is 40' deep and both the bridge and JEA are west of the location. More properly between San Carlos and Browns Creek, in the St. Johns East Channel, east of the railroad bridge.


OCKLAWAHA