Positive Talk Could be Hiding the Truth Behind the Renewed Push for SunRail

[mtraininjax]

For Jax to see any money in rail, the Sunrail deal and/or Orlando MUST work. We need some success to prove to the Feds that Florida is for real. Without success, this is just a collosal waste of time.

[thelakelander]

^In addition to that, Jax directly benefits from these projects.  Here are five benefits for starters.

1. The FEC/Amtrak corridor project from Jax to Miami will potentially be a "HSR" funded project.  It is a part of Florida's HSR application.

2. Sunrail, results in a significant of freight traffic being taken off the tracks paralleling Roosevelt.  This should improve traffic flow on the westside and increase to possibility of future commuter rail between DT and Orange Park/Clay County.

3. CSX is a local Fortune 500 company.  They stand to make a ton of money off the Sunrail deal.  A local company doing good in a recession can't be a bad thing for Jax.  Especially one headquartered in DT.

4. Another Jax-based company will be building Sunrail.  More jobs or at least job preservation for locals.

5. CSX has said it intends to use a chunk of their Sunrail profits to pay for the Springfield bypass and Jax port rail improvements.  This helps enhance the attractiveness of our port, which is really one of our few economic engines still buzzing.

[CS Foltz]

Yes lake............there are positives for sure! You forgot the "Tax" situation where hopefully the City will get some to keep from Feeing us to the poor house. My biggest issue with the Orlando/Tampa region is everything is revolving around that Mickey Mouse Feeder system being up and running! I don't see an actual benefit in hard dollars other than the construction/maintenance and operations. Not to mention CSX receives a pot full of dollars and no liability issue's stemming from useage of their tracks! I still do not believe that region is the best showcase for what should be a "World Class Mass Transit System"!

[tufsu1]

This is the problem CS...you want rail, but when handed a project that is good for Central Florida, you find fault with it!

The only reason SunRail is being attached to HSR right now is that seems to be the only way to get the Legislature to even consider approving it....clearly SunRail doesn't need HSR to be successful.

[Ocklawaha]

CS, I think we ALL AGREE with every point you've made. I don't think there is one of us (besides Faye) that really believes the HSR as planned is going to carry any volume.

As for myself, it's going to be another case of Florida blowing it so bad, people in every state will cringe when they see the billion dollar amusement park train lose it's ass, thus damaging exclusive high speed rail for many years. Wrong segment, wrong route, wrong terminals, wrong traffic plan, wrong access to cities.

The flip side is, we get a box of toys for Northeast Florida, and Orlando will get a long needed commuter rail system. The positives out weigh the negatives as in a originating and terminating state like Florida, with some sort of attraction at every stop, we may be done with HSR for a lifetime. "BYE!" Maybe we can convince them the Skyway is HSR (it will do 55 mph after all). I see the REAL HSR taking off North and West of Jacksonville, with higher speed rail working better South of town.

So what are we waiting for, let's get our own rail projects done, while we have a 50 yard line seat to watch Tallahassee, Orlando, Miami, Tampa, and West Palm, jump off the cliff and commit suicide. HA! HA! HA!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

An update from Friday's Session:

House Debate Focuses on Job Creation

By GARY FINEOUT
TALLAHASSEE CORRESPONDENT


Published: Friday, December 4, 2009 at 11:05 p.m.
Last Modified: Friday, December 4, 2009 at 11:05 p.m.

TALLAHASSEE | Florida legislators have called this week's special session to set up a comprehensive rail system in Florida a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to change forever how residents move around the state.

But whether the GOP-controlled Legislature winds up approving the sweeping proposal may boil down to something else: jobs. And whether or not tapping into additional government spending is the key to creating jobs in a state with more than a million Floridians out of work.

One state agency contends the proposal over time could create up to 14,000 jobs, and Gov. Charlie Crist has said the prospect of those jobs is why it would be "indefensible" to scuttle the proposal.

That figure, however, is drawing some skepticism, especially from Republican politicians critical of the overall federal stimulus package.

"We should be wary of all the promises floating around Tallahassee about how much this latest round of government spending will create lasting jobs and prosperity," said former House Speaker Marco Rubio in a statement provided by his campaign.

Rubio, who is challenging Gov. Charlie Crist for the U.S. Senate, supported the controversial SunRail commuter rail project for Central Florida back in 2008 when he was speaker. But his comments Friday show the delicate balancing act that legislators will have to confront in the next few days.

The first two days of the special session have been filled with questions, and rhetoric about the potential economic impact of setting up both the 61-mile SunRail project and a high speed train linking Orlando and Tampa. Legislative leaders say Florida needs to act now on commuter rail in an effort to convince the federal government it should hand the state $3.2 billion from the federal stimulus package for various rail projects.

On Friday, the Florida House began debate on the proposal and much of it centered on jobs. House Democrats wanted to add requirements that any spending generated by the plan go primarily to Florida-based companies or Florida workers.

But the Democrats' efforts were shot down by GOP legislators who said the provisions would likely violate federal law and could derail the ongoing effort.

"While it's a great intent to specify that Florida's workers are given preferential treatment … it has the risk of having the opposite effect," said Rep. Gary Aubuchon, R-Cape Coral and the House sponsor of the bill. "Instead of putting people to work they will be sitting on the sidelines."

The back-and-forth over jobs is expected to heat up even further next week when both the House and Senate are supposed to take a final vote on the rail proposal, which also calls on the state to spend more money on the Tri-Rail system in South Florida. Several House Democrats said Friday it is unlikely they would stand in the way of the legislation because it calls on trying to tap into stimulus money to help Florida.

"I want that money to come to this state. We want jobs here," said Rep. Keith Fitzgerald, D-Sarasota.

Republicans nationwide have derided the $787 billion stimulus package passed by Congress. In Florida, Rubio has roundly criticized fellow Republican Crist for supporting the stimulus.

Sen. Paula Dockery, R-Lakeland and an outspoken critic of the rail proposal, also questioned the job projections Friday and said that only the high speed rail portion of the legislation could potentially generate as many jobs as promised.

But House Majority Leader Adam Hasner, R-Boca Raton, said that while Republicans may think the stimulus was a bad idea it doesn't mean Florida shouldn't try to get the money that has already been set aside.

http://www.theledger.com/article/20091204/NEWS/912045064/1134?Title=House-Debate-Focuses-on-Job-Creation

[thelakelander]

Another update from Tallahassee...

Success of rail deal is far from certain

With a Monday House vote, the legislation passes to the Senate, where its fate is far from certain.
Senate President Jeff Atwater, R-North Palm Beach, needs 21 votes. The defection of a key Republican, former transportation chairman Carey Baker of Mount Dora, nearly derailed the session. Supporters also appeared to lose the vote of Sen. Larcenia Bullard, a Miami Democrat who reportedly suffered a heart attack and will be unable to cast a final vote next week.

Rep. Greg Evers, R-Baker, cites the same objections as Baker. Evers said he supports commuter rail but that the legislation has grown into something much larger.

Senate Democratic Leader Al Lawson of Tallahassee has been working behind the scenes with labor leaders, trying to broker a deal that would include protections for union rail workers. Without that, Lawson said he's not sure he can deliver as many as 13 Democratic votes.

AFL-CIO Florida president Mike Williams spent much of Friday meeting with lawmakers and talking with Florida Department of Transportation officials, but he said he was making little headway. The House is the problem, Williams said.

Full Article: http://www.tallahassee.com/article/20091205/CAPITOLNEWS/912050327/Success-of-rail-deal-is-far-from-certain?GID=32gIBJ8clbY0p0YS1Pa/HcNsQLSTVK3ZZBG0PxeVJXo%3D

[CS Foltz]

Gentlemen.............I just hate the waste of resources! State Legislators still have not funded squat other than talk which is real easy for any Politician to do. I have not seen or heard of any Plan B for Funding and unless any system is funded properly it will go down the sewer pipe! A $2 Dollar tax on rental cars won't go far unless the rental end of things picks up substantially so they better have a Plan B and C available! I hope it fly's like all get out but I have reservations guys!

[thelakelander]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the funding source they are pushing at this point is a $2 tax on car rentals.  I thought they were shifting funds from somewhere else.

[Ocklawaha]

I agree CS, and Lake, I believe you are correct. Time will tell what, if anything, we get... FDOT is suffering from too many "Fast-Train-Faye's" and not enough Railroaders!

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Now I am really getting concerned! Last time I looked into it, State is suffering from a drastic loss of revenue which is supposed to curtail alot of projects, education and expenditures so where are they going to be getting money from? Fed's do not have unlimited resources and people are starting to notice just how much the Deficit is growing, so what funding sources are they looking at? I have not seen or heard about any other dedicated source being discussed? No matter where any system goes, it must be funded correctly or down the tubes it will go!

[tufsu1]

the money will be coming from the transportation trust fund....apparently they are now predicting is an unexpected increase in gas tax revenues.

[Ocklawaha]

the money will be coming from the transportation trust fund....apparently they are now predicting is an unexpected increase in gas tax revenues.

In other words consumption will be way down and the price sky high, $10 dollar a gallon gasoline will certainly return more taxes then $3 dollars a gallon will. It is the only logical way they can expand this base, and even gas taxes will have a ceiling after which even JACKSONVILLE RESIDENTS WILL USE MASS TRANSIT. I'd really rather see a flat transportation tax assigned to all residents in their licences or tags, payable each year. Such a tax would be very stable and predictable each quarter. Taxing fuel is just going to encourage another runaway price disaster, with no incentive to curtail the expenses.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

actually Ock, sadly the high price of gas only has a negative impact on tax collections....remember that the tax is a set # (i.e, $0.22) not a %....and when the price of gas goes up like it did last year, people drive less and collections for federal, state, and local govt goes down

[stjr]

This editorial from the Tampa Tribune:

Decision point on commuter rail

The Tampa Tribune
Published: December 6, 2009

The state's transportation future will be shaped this week by one clear, difficult choice. If modern passenger rail service is to come to Florida any time soon, the Legislature must pass a new law in special session that sets up a statewide structure to oversee and help pay for regional and city-to-city trains.

The decision can't wait for a better bill, a stronger economy or a longer period for debate. Florida is at a crossroads. To reject the proposal pulled together by Senate President Jeff Atwater, a Republican from North Palm Beach, would send two damaging signals.

One message would go to the White House and say that Florida does not support rail transit, so forget about giving us $2.5 billion to build a super-fast train from Tampa to Orlando and eventually Miami. It may be unfair and somewhat irrational that commuter rail lines and long-distance trains are so tightly linked. The fact is they are in the minds of federal rail officials, who have made no secret of their thinking.

The second signal would be to urban areas. Tampa, Orlando and other cities would get the message that if they want an alternative to jammed highways, they're on their own to figure out what to do.

The bill would create a new rail agency within the state Department of Transportation. It would be called Florida Rail Enterprise and bring coherence to statewide rail planning and financing. It would require no new taxes or affect existing programs. A portion of undesignated revenue from the documentary stamp on real-estate transactions would eventually fund the effort. The decision to build a first rail line is always controversial, so state leadership is essential, just as it is in the construction of major highways.

The current piecemeal approach pits one region against another and raises serious doubts about state participation, which is needed to attract federal dollars.

Tri-Rail in Southeast Florida is struggling to survive, and SunRail can't get off the drawing board, despite a pledge by local governments to help pay for it. Rail for Hillsborough County goes to a vote next year with opponents raising doubts about state and federal assistance. The bill being considered in Tallahassee would for the first time in Florida treat rail projects as assets worthy of permanent financial support, just like highways.

The majority of Tampa's legislative delegation is leaning against supporting the rail bill. If they help kill it, they would reduce the chances of success for local rail. If the bill passes over their united opposition, Tampa could find itself at the bottom of the state's priority list for new transit projects. Reprisal would be unfair, but that's politics. The bullet train might go from Orlando to Miami first, and never to Tampa.

If the bill passes with a reasonable level of support from West-Central Florida, the future for rail here would be much brighter. The first truly high-speed rail line in the Western Hemisphere might be built straight into downtown Tampa, and it could link to Hillsborough County's proposed light-rail line. Surrounding counties would have a big incentive to join, either with express buses or their own rail projects.

The liability issue with CSX freight trains sharing state-owned tracks would be resolved for the Orlando train in a way that could be repeated in other parts of the state. The private company would accept a share of the responsibility for accidents. That's a big improvement over the original proposal that made the state to blame for anything that went wrong.

Sen. Paula Dockery of Lakeland, who deserves credit for leading the successful fight against that bad deal last session and forcing the revisions, is not satisfied by the new terms. But she should recognize that it's virtually impossible to achieve a flawless deal and the stakes are too high to walk away from legislation that finally would enable Florida to develop a diverse transportation system, one the Republican leadership and most business groups are certain will be the foundation of an economic renaissance.

We understand that some rail advocates overstate the benefits of trains. We understand the principled opposition against big-government projects. But we can't understand the vision of some lawmakers who seem to think Tampa, Orlando, Miami and Jacksonville need the same transportation policy that works for Macon, Moultrie, Valdosta and Waycross.

Florida must begin spending more of its tax revenue on transit, as is done in other urban states, and it need not increase taxes statewide to do that. Circumstances require the state to either adopt a modern rail policy right now or be left far behind for decades, if not forever.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/dec/06/co-decision-point-on-commuter-rail/news-opinion-editorials/