Caution: LA is coming to steal your NFL team in 2011

[blizz01]

The Browns averted their first local TV blackout of their expansion era when they had to team with ESPN, Budweiser and a local TV station to buy up the remaining tickets for Monday night's game against the Baltimore Ravens.  Wow - I think that a MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL game blackout would have been unprecedented.

[thirdeye]

It's already a done deal in Wayne's mind. It's just a matter of when and where. See my comment in. "How 'bout them Jags."

Now that we have a mind reader on the forum getting to the bottom of things should be a snap.

UGH. I can't believe how many people are blind in Jax. Even the national sports commentators are bringing the subject up. I'll make it simple. Wayne Weaver owns a business. The business is not doing well. What does Wayne do?

A. Sell the business?
B. Close up shop and absorb the loss?
C. Go broke waiting for things to get better?
D. Take a chance in a market substantially larger?

Don't you remember the market size was the fear of the NFL from the start? How many games have you gone to? I'll show you my stubs. I'm not a mind reader, I'm just intelligent.

Not doing well? How much did Weaver pay for the Jags, around $200 million?
Their current value $800 million? I would say he is doing fine. He might be hurting in the short term but the value of his business has appreciated considerably.

Recently NFL teams have only moved because of stadium and city issues not ticket sales.
There is no doubt the Jags must produce a more consistent product on the field and do a better job marketing off the field.

As a Jax native I am shocked with the overall lack of interest in the Jags but Jacksonville has always been a walk up crowd and very band wagon oriented. Plus now with some many transplants there are not a whole lot of hard core Jags fans.

Overall it is hard for me to imagine a "realistic" scenario in which the Jags will move in the next 5 years. But if Weaver were to die tomorrow everything could change.

[BridgeTroll]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_/id/6275/black-and-blue-all-over-stadium-hiccup

Black and Blue all over: Stadium hiccup

November, 18, 2009 Nov 187:34AM ETEmail Share By Kevin SeifertAn interesting twist worked its way through Minnesota’s efforts to secure a new stadium Tuesday. It’s a pretty complicated bureaucratic issue, but Jay Weiner of MinnPost explains the bottom line here. Essentially, the commission that owns and operates the Metrodome has asked the Vikings to drop their primary leverage -- the 2011 expiration of their lease -- in exchange for financial breaks at the stadium.

That would come in the form of extending their lease at the Metrodome while seeking local options for new construction. If they do not extend, the commission proposes to reinstate rent charges that were dropped earlier this decade.

Vikings officials were livid with the request and called the offer a “non-starter.” A team spokesman said owner Zygi Wilf was “outraged” that the commission is seeking to extend its time in the Metrodome rather than working toward financing and building a new facility.

What does all this mean? From this vantage point, at least, it looks like the Vikings aren’t getting the speedy cooperation on a new stadium they had hoped. It continues to suggest they’re headed toward a crisis before this issue gets resolved. If both sides stand firm, the Vikings’ lease will expire without a new local stadium to move into, making them “free agents” if they seek to move elsewhere.

[buckethead]

I'm a huge Jags fan. In fact, I learned of this site though Kristin aka Erasergirl on the Jags message board.

That disclosure is to qualify the following: NFL franchises are way out of bounds demanding new stadiums and upgrades from Municipalities. These expenditures are frivolous and quite unneccesary. To blackmail a partner city into going into massive debt to satisfy a singular franchise is beyond the pale.

Municipalities should unite against these franchises and say "You want it, You build it!" The taxpayers have already built at least one stadium for each team. These stadiums are fine.

The only reasons a municipality should build a new stadium are structural concerns or an opportunity to see real and short-mid term financial gain as a result of the investment.

[stjr]

I'm a huge Jags fan. In fact, I learned of this site though Kristin aka Erasergirl on the Jags message board.

That disclosure is to qualify the following: NFL franchises are way out of bounds demanding new stadiums and upgrades from Municipalities. These expenditures are frivolous and quite unneccesary. To blackmail a partner city into going into massive debt to satisfy a singular franchise is beyond the pale.

Municipalities should unite against these franchises and say "You want it, You build it!" The taxpayers have already built at least one stadium for each team. These stadiums are fine.

The only reasons a municipality should build a new stadium are structural concerns or an opportunity to see real and short-mid term financial gain as a result of the investment.

Buckethead, well said.  I agree.  Stadiums have become the nuclear arms race of sports.  It's way out of hand.  You are there to see a game, not tour a stadium "theme park" for which the game is secondary.  In a way, I find it funny that people spend all the money to go to the stadium and then effectively glue their eyes to the stadium screens full of commercials as if they were at home still watching on TV 

[BridgeTroll]

You both seem to be missing the point.  You are 100% correct in the reasoning that cities should not be forced to build new stadiums... but... no one is forcing them.  Of course they may just leave and go to a city that will build a suitable stadium.  Citizens simply have to decide what they want.  If the cost of a stadium is too high then you must not be too concerned about a team leaving.  BTW... the HHH Metrodome is a dump.

You are there to see a game, not tour a stadium "theme park" for which the game is secondary.

This may be factually correct... but in reality it is not.  Most NFL and other sports rely on the "secondary" income streams from the other experiences at the stadium.  Food, Bars, luxury boxes, museums, collections, exhibits, meeting and banquet facilities.  Most new stadiums are doing business 12 months a year.

The 49ers STILL play at Candlestick or whatever they are calling it now.  They are about to lose the team to the San Jose / Santa Clara area as voters there are ready to vote for a modern new stadium in the south bay.  The team will of course move.  They may be still called the San Francisco 49ers but they will be playing and practicing in San Jose / Santa Clara.

[buckethead]

The Battle of the Bay aka the Earthquake World Series was hosted in part at Candlestick. If I were a San Fransiscan, I'd be outraged at the suggestion to demolish the stadium.

Fenway, Wrigley, Lambeau and other such historic venues show that historic venues can perpetuate tradition and build mystique.

VIVA SUPERDOME!

[KenFSU]

The Battle of the Bay aka the Earthquake World Series was hosted in part at Candlestick. If I were a San Fransiscan, I'd be outraged at the suggestion to demolish the stadium.

The Cow Palace, which I'd probably consider equally if not more historic, is on the chopping block as well from what I understand.

[Ocklawaha]

Okay, so we agree to a Super Dome of our own, (no more then 55,000 seats PLEASE) and the team agrees to stay long term. Sign on the dotted line. Question is, does the owner get a streetcar AND a Skyway link. Hum? I wonder... How quickly City hall could become transit savvy? Perhaps this could be a "hail Mary," pass for more then just a threatened teamless city.

Q. Ock, you wouldn't stoop to tipping off the Weavers of your transit scheme just to get them to demand it would you?

A. WHO'S STOOPING, HELL I'M JOGGING TO THEIR HOUSE!

OCKLAWAHA

[BridgeTroll]

Fenway, Wrigley, Lambeau and other such historic venues show that historic venues can perpetuate tradition and build mystique.

Lambeau has been upgraded drastically and repeatedly over the years.  It is state of the art.  Luxury boxes surround the bowl.  The Packer hall of fame is within the facility.  High end gift shops and restaurants are well attended and used.  Weddings, and banquets are catered within the building.  These are all "secondary" revenue streams for the team and without them the team would have issues with survivability.

The 49ers, Vikings and others also want these "secondary" incomes and new facilities are the way to do it.  I am sure some San Franciscans are "outraged" but definitely not enough to prevent the move to the south bay.

If L.A. commits to a new state of the art stadium... some team and owner will move there.

[JaxNative68]

Just say hypothetically that the Jags move to LA.  How long would it take LA citizens to get bored with them, if they continue to play the way they are, and stop attending games?  LA has had NFL teams in the past and lost them.  I remember the days when Jax did not have a team and other teams constantly talked about moving here in order to get what they wanted from their own city?  If I remember correctly one of those teams was from LA?

Is this whole story just a bunch of hype in an attempt to energize the city and to get the people of Jax into the stadium?  I believe so.  Like I have always said, if you want to increase your fan base and attendance, you need to increase your on the field performance.  You have to remember how long this city was without an NFL team.  Many people in this city grew up loving football and our favorite football teams where either college teams or other NFL teams, because there wasn't a team in our city.  It is hard to ask someone to quit being a fan of a team that they have loved since early childhood and start being a fan of a new expansion team.  My early childhood heros were Jack Lambert, Mean Joe Green, Terry Bradshaw, Rocky Bleier, Mel Blount, LC Greenwood, and Franco Harris.  To this day I still find myself rooting for the Steelers. Tampa went decades before they really got a true local fan base and that fan base came from finally having success on the field.  The Jags need to realize that building a true local fan base and non-local fan base takes decades and I hate to say it, takes winning.

[copperfiend]

Just say hypothetically that the Jags move to LA.  How long would it take LA citizens to get bored with them, if they continue to play the way they are, and stop attending games? 

How do you think they are playing?

[JaxNative68]

Last year, bad.
This year, roller coaster, one game good, the next like they're a high school team.

Don't get me wrong, I root for the Jags every weekend they are on the field.  And I even wear their swag around town.  But you have to admit, some weeks they make it tough.

[BridgeTroll]

LA has had NFL teams in the past and lost them.

Why did the teams move from L.A.?  Are you sure the fans were bored?  The Rams moved... Ta da... because St Louis offered em a shiny new stadium.  Why did Al Davis move from Oakland to L.A.?  Because the Rams moved to a new stadium he figured L.A. would spring for a shiny new stadium for the Raiders.  (They were playing in the freeking Rose Bowl)  When that didnt happen he got Oakland to renovate the old stadium and he moved back.

It is all about those secondary money streams that only a new stadium can provide...

When LA commits to building a new one... some city in the NFL will lose a team to LA.  GARE UN TEED.

[Wacca Pilatka]

Don't get me wrong, I root for the Jags every weekend they are on the field.  And I even wear their swag around town.  But you have to admit, some weeks they make it tough.

I've never found rooting for a team that represents my favorite city to be tough.  I don't care if they go 0-16.

(I mean, I do care if they go 0-16--it just won't change the level of my rooting interest)