New transportation center planned for downtown Jacksonville

[aaapolito]

It's about time...

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-11-11/story/new_transportation_center_planned_for_downtown_jacksonville

[thelakelander]

I have mixed feelings about this project.  I love the idea of a transportation center but spreading it out of several blocks because of an inability to properly coordinate and get the convention center out of there will limit its long term potential.

“In most cities, people take a commuter train to a bus or subway,” Arrington said. “People will make two transfers as long as it runs smoothly.”

I agree, but transfers don't work smoothly when its a three block walk between modes.  We need to do everything we can to get the convention center out of there.

Originally, Greyhound was in a future phase, but JTA recently moved it up when it determined it might help get the stimulus money.

That’s bad news for Mitchell McDaniel,  owner of Architectural Accents & Antiques and McDaniels Contractors Inc. Both businesses are located on the 1100 block of West Adams Street, and JTA will be taking his building via eminent domain to construct the Greyhound Terminal.

“My problem right now is that I don’t know when this is going to happen,” McDaniel said. “They may be looking to take my business in the next few months or it may not be for years.”

Leave the little guy alone and go meet with Peyton to plan for the removal of the convention center.  Get it out of the way and all transportation center components could become consolidated and built south of Forsyth Street.  Doing that would free up several blocks for infill transit oriented development.  A transportation center surrounded by blocks of high density mixed-use development would be better for ridership and the tax rolls than a transit center sprawled across LaVilla and around a dying convention facility.

[fsu813]

"shovel ready"

this means that they've had the plan in the works for sometime i guess....

[thelakelander]

Yes, its been proposed for years.  It even got money taken away from it, after it had been left in waiting for a while.

[ralpho37]

I love how they refer to commuter rail as "high speed rail."  JTA has nothing to do with high speed rail planning in the state.  Commuter rail is totally different.

Also, I totally agree about the convention center.  Our little kiddy center has got to go or Jacksonville will go nowhere.  Why don't our city "leaders" get this?  I thought Peyton was a businessman.  As such he should understand such things.

[mtraininjax]

Future phases would include a new Amtrak station adjacent to the existing Prime Osborn and historic Jacksonville Union Terminal, additional retail stores along Johnson Street, and a parking garage with about 2,000 more spaces.

This is JTA scheming to get a new building, plain and simple. The dump they are in now must be falling down. They'll get the new digs for everyone and the substation and there we go, we'll be waiting for rail to show up, in a "future" phase. Cart before the horse comes to mind.

[tufsu1]

I respectfully disagree...truth is all the planning and most of the design for the center has already been done....which is not the case w/ rail.

Plus, this is the kind of project that could be funded through stimulus or an earmark...at this point, construction of commuter rail and/or streetcar are not.

[stjr]

A transportation center could also become the savior of the little-used Skyway. JTA believes Skyway ridership would increase because the Convention Center station would be located in the middle of the new transportation center.

However, the $184 million Skyway â€" also built with federal money â€" could also turn out to be the strongest argument against a transportation center. What little ridership there has been dropped by more than 20 percent in the last two years, and the rosy estimates that were thrown about when the Skyway was being built in the ’80s were never met.

Arrington blames the ridership drop on the recession and believes the primary problem with the Skyway is that there’s no good way for people to access the people-mover. More downtown development, and a transportation network that drops people off at the Skyway, would increase ridership, he said.

“In most cities, people take a commuter train to a bus or subway,” Arrington said. “People will make two transfers as long as it runs smoothly.”

This is one JTA project I support, assuming they do it right.  That's always a question when JTA is involved.  Lake makes a good point on moving the convention center being part of doing it right.  If JTA skews the deal, forget it.  Already, cracks in the wall with Greyhound blocks away.

Doesn't anyone want to know how JTA can find money for a new HQ's here, but not some "pocket change" for bus shelters without ads?  Maybe JTA will cover its HQ's with ads too to pay for the new digs.

I love the continued excuses-of-the-day JTA offers for the $ky-high-way.  Now it's the economy.  We just came out of one of the biggest boom times in 75 years, and nothing good happened for the $ky-high-way.  So, why are we blaming the economy?  Someone could fill a book with all the excuses JTA has cooked up over the years.  Can't JTA just admit it's an idea that's failed to the tune of $14 million in annual losses and $20,000 per year per rider subsidies?  Building the new center around the $ky-high-way would just be another indication JTA isn't going to do this right.

Is this center planning for street cars as well?  Hopefully, no BRT.  Is a hotel planned for the Amtrak riders looking at a layover/inter-modal transfer?  How about a rental car complex?  The City tourism/visitors bureau?

Maybe the rents from related activities could pay some bills.

[thelakelander]

Stjr, here are the plan's components:

Jacksonville Regional Transportation Center Phase 1

• Stations for bus rapid transit
• Greyhound station
• 200 parking spaces
• 8,000 square-feet of retail space on Johnson and Forsyth streets.
• Public plaza facing Johnson Street.
• Four-story, 60,000 square-foot building housing most regional transportation officials.

Future phases would include:

• Amtrak station that could incorporate future commuter rail and high-speed rail.
• Renovation of Prime Osborn Convention Center to make it part of the Amtrak station when conventions aren’t occurring.
• Elevated, 2,000-space parking garage.

Source: Jacksonville Transportation Authority

[CS Foltz]

Amazing to me how JTA can go Eminent Domain on a couple of blocks and have money to renovate or build new, but has no money at all for simple bus shelters! Got money for  that but no shelters..................I mean come on!! JTA is playing games AGAIN with words and with our tax dollars. It just leaves me speechless that they have the audacity to build but have no money for shelters. Real nice planning by professionals hard at work bringing our City into the 21st Century!

[thelakelander]

Here is a site plan of what's proposed:



I guess phase 1 is everything spreadout across the blocks north of Bay.  Personally, I'd be hesitant to move foward on anything north of Forsyth.  All of those components can fit south of Bay to create a more user friendly and compact hub, if people gather up the courage to talk about the future of the convention center.

[thelakelander]

Amazing to me how JTA can go Eminent Domain on a couple of blocks and have money to renovate or build new, but has no money at all for simple bus shelters! Got money for  that but no shelters..................I mean come on!! JTA is playing games AGAIN with words and with our tax dollars. It just leaves me speechless that they have the audacity to build but have no money for shelters. Real nice planning by professionals hard at work bringing our City into the 21st Century!

To be fair, they don't have money for this either.

[CS Foltz]

lake .....what is the old adage....."Champange taste on a water budget"? Proposal is wasting valuable square are when the option to build up might be a better choice. I mean there appear to be no advantage spreading out in the proposed manner?

[thelakelander]

I agree that it takes up about five more blocks than necessary.  All because no one is man enough to bring the convention center issue up. 

[tufsu1]

Also keep in mind that this is also an FDOT project...not just JTA