John Mica Calls Florida's High Speed Rail Application a "Dog"

CS Foltz · November 03, 2009, 08:47:46 PM

lake I concur! There are a variety of rail system's that could be used not just HSR! LRT or Commuter is not the issue but the correct type of people moving system that actually touches all of the population centers not just from Airport to kinda City Center! The more that I see what is proposed, the more that I am leaning against it! I have no problem with the jobs both before during and after the system is up and running but I have reservations regarding whether or not this is the area that we need to have an HSR system as a shining example of rail at its finest! I think if really needs to be something in excess of 380 miles out.......either Jax to Miami or Jax to Atlanta take your pick........but something out far enough to make it show the possibilities!

tufsu1 · November 04, 2009, 08:26:50 AM

so Jax to Miami and Jax to ATL are 380+ miles away...I don't think so.

That said, may I suggest doing some research on high speed rail systems in Europe...check how many of them pass by smaller population centers...or whether any termini/stops outside of downtowns.

Ocklawaha · November 04, 2009, 11:22:37 AM

Ours should be a real winner then tusfu1, running from Florida's most inaccessible major airport to an amusement park, to a downtown where it will completely miss the station preserved to be the intermodal center. Brilliant!

While your remarks to do some research, and slap at the miles quoted, smacks of an elitist comment, I think CS, has a point. A line straight up the coastal cities, as close to the FEC as possible, from one end to the other would be far superior. So would a long, long, dreamed of "air line" from Tampa to Miami. I even bet you tusfu1, that you, Lake and I, could find old archived surveys, engineering drawings, and right-of-way, hidden away in some dusty corner, dating from the roaring 20's.

OCKLAWAHA

tufsu1 · November 04, 2009, 07:00:04 PM

not elitist Ock, just informed :-)

CS Foltz · November 04, 2009, 07:56:45 PM

Well tufsu1 according to FDOT Center of Jacksonville to Center of Miami is 359 miles by existing roads....so who is right, them or you?? If you went nautical miles or statue miles direct at 1K up......I know it would be less but I have no aircraft of anykind to make that altitude jump and then straight line direct. Shortest distance between two points is a direct line but I do not have any aerocharts or even ICW charts (That would be nautical sectional charts of Intercoastal Waterway) Don't have access to Loran C and GPS would require equipment that I no longer have.........so I gotta go with FDOT, even though I don't believe much of what they say about much of anything! Jacksonville to Miami either using existing tracks upgraded on ROW that FEC currently owns or controls or Jacksonville to Atlanta via tracks northbound......take your pick! Orlando is a stand alone system and serves nothing but an Airport,Mouseville and a City Center............Whopee! That is 2.5 Billion Dollars of my tax money hard at work for who? Local transit possibilities allmost zero for $60 Dollars.......so-called HSR with three to four stops and all this for only $2.5 BILLION DOLLARS? That is just to build it.....no funding to run or operate and this is the best we can do? I say back to the drawing board and come up with something practical and cost efficient! Any detours for traffic issues,wrecks or traffic incidents,bathroom breaks, fuel or something to eat would add mileage to that which is why I said 380 miles allowing for any detours

Ocklawaha · November 04, 2009, 09:32:58 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on November 04, 2009, 07:00:04 PM
not elitist Ock, just informed :-)

Yeah, tufsu1, but a hippie hitcher might know that milage and CS or a newbie, Florida boy might not. ...Speaking of "informed", you might be surprised at a couple of issues (positive) that are coming out of JTA to a city near you. Real soon, "an Ocklawaha production..."

OCKLAWAHA

CS Foltz · November 05, 2009, 06:02:23 AM

Ock.............looking forward to something positive out of JTA, other than new bus's @ $600k a copy that is never more than 12 people full........somehow I don't think that really is a cost effective solution to mass transit! I won't even go there about the shelters.......spend money on new high tech bus's and have no shelters for use,something is wrong with that picture and it is not my fault! Leave it to our so-called experts to come up with this solution that still leaves me scratching my head!

tufsu1 · November 05, 2009, 03:54:42 PM

Quote from: CS Foltz on November 04, 2009, 07:56:45 PM
Well tufsu1 according to FDOT Center of Jacksonville to Center of Miami is 359 miles by existing roads....so who is right, them or you??

both of us are right...remember you claimed that Jax to ATL and Jax to MIA would be good HSR routes because they were over 380 miles....I said you were wrong....you've just confirmed it

CS Foltz · November 06, 2009, 06:20:39 AM

I would suggest you look at mileage from Miami to Atlanta......that total is in excess of 380 miles and I think your trying to split the camels hairs! Your comment regarding HSR bypassing population centers in Europe just proves that Orland system would require bypassing population centers there also. More than likely due to noise pollution from trains moving at high speed through the air, as in noise related issue's and crossing points that could not be circumvented! I know I would love to have HSR running next to my house that would be a real selling point! So HSR would not work there is what your saying?

tufsu1 · November 06, 2009, 08:22:34 AM

you said Jax to Miami and Jax to ATL..those are two separate routes.

Unless of course you're claiming it would be a MIA-ATL route w/ a stop in Jax....if so, then TPA-MIA w/ a stop in ORL is the same thing...

Either way, you have to start somewhere!

Dog Walker · November 06, 2009, 10:42:57 AM

CS, high speed trains are quieter than our freight or passenger trains. They are lighter, the rails are welded and I am sure that there are some other measures used to keep they wheels from being so noisy. I've stood near a TGV track in France and they go by with a whine and whoosh in the blink of an eye. The singing noise from the electric pickup is actually audible over the sound of the wheels.

You can't imagine how fast 200kph is until you see one of those things go by.

CS Foltz · November 06, 2009, 12:37:52 PM

Dog Walker I will be the first one to say..........got a lot to learn about trains! I do know about speed and subsonic aerodynamics and those French Trains a real engineering feat! I don't say they can not work here in the US of A, I say we need to showcase here just what that type transportation can do for a people moving system. That whoosh you refer to is the air coming back together after the train slides through it.....just the fact you hear after it has gone by indicates superlative aero work! I just don't think Orlando is the region to do something of that nature........waste of resources!

CS Foltz · November 06, 2009, 02:02:35 PM

DW.....familiar with super sonic aerodynamics also......bought round trip ticket on the Concorde before they decom'd the ships.........2.45 hrs New York to London......traveling at about 2300 mph......now that was high speed and 1st class accommodations.....no business class on that ship! Outstanding ride and wish Boeing had gotton their platform up and running before Congress pulled the plug! I was ready to work for them back then as a junior draftperson and was just waiting for the phone call...........oh well!