Almost 63% Support for High Speed Rail According to Orlando Sentinel Poll

[tufsu1]

Its going to get up to 168mph between Tampa and Orlando's airport?  What stretch and for how long?

From what I understand, about 40 miles (half the trip) along I-4 on the non-stop express trips

[Ocklawaha]

"we don't need DON'T NEED ANOTHER OCK HISTORY LESSON, to hell with the yardstick of time, education, and most of all EXPERIENCE. Otherwise we would be building the best system for the money..."

Wow, you mean to say you are the only one with experience? How much experience do you have with HSR, since besides Amtrak's Acela, which John Mica wants to replace, there isn't any HSR in the US yet!?

Besides I guess there are dozens maybe even hundreds of decision makers who don't listen to the all-knowing EXPERIENCED XXX XXX.

Full name omitted, It is a violation of MJ or Forum policy everywhere to "out" someones personal identity.

LONG LIST OMITED

I guess none of these folks appreciate your experience except John Mica who also has an ear for the teabaggers,..........going so far as to read the teabagger manifesto on the House floor!!!!

Faye, you need to take your medication, your starting to lose your grip. Perhaps a visit to the doctor would help, menopause can have severe negative effects on the hormones.

Gosh, I hardly know where to start with this stunningly crazy response from a would-be Representative in US Congress.

Let's try the one line at a time game, if you don't like that Faye, maybe we can have a spelling bee.

No where did I say or imply that I was the only one with experience, I simply pointed out that in dozens of threads and many, repetitious copy and paste postings, you have ignored ANYONE with experience in the industry. Suggesting, if those people on yet another of your long lists were railroaders, we would be building a different system.

How much experience do I have with HSR? Outside of working around things that move for more then 30 years, and EVERY mode, not a shred.

Then you off to your favorite obsession, John Mica. What the hell does John Mica, wanting to replace Acela have to do with me? Florida? Anything?  Now I hope this isn't too complicated for you but I'll try and explain the problem with the train, I'll leave you to your lust for Mica's attention.

On the current route, Acela can't really do what it was designed to do, not only that but it was delivered with design flaws which were worked out between Bombardier and Amtrak. Trouble is, the fix involved compromising the tilt ability of the trains, which in turn makes them only slightly faster then conventional equipment. If we are looking for something more, Acela, the track and the right-of-way will need major changes or replacement.

Your last shot in that line was, "there isn't any HSR in the US yet."  My response is...? and...? So what? There isn't a comprehensive rail passenger network or series of networks in the US, Canada or Mexico, today. Somehow, people have this idea, that if we just make jet powered trains, we'll create a panacea. Bull Shit! I can't get a ticket to Atlanta on a train today, but the track is just sitting there. We no longer have Trailways Silver Eagle bus service from Jacksonville to Birmingham either, but if we built a $3 Billion dollar Busway, and filled it with 140 MPH, high speed buses, do you think all of that traffic would return? NOT!

Next was an impressive list of people supporting Florida HSR, besides the usual blind politicians, the TPO's, Transit Agency's and Development Authority's, was the Board of Realtors, Chamber of Commerce, Florida Audubon Society, Bay Area Apartment Association, and The Metro Orlando Home Builders Association. Wow, I didn't see a single railroad industry publication, or association. I bet the Central Florida Orchid Society would endorse it if you asked them Faye.

I don't know if the man of your fantasy's, John Mica, even knows what industry I worked in. We are what I would call friends, in that he knows me when he sees me, we've met many times to chat, and we've been to a few functions. So?
He has an ear for what? Teabaggers? WTF?

Ladies and Gentlemen, I submit to you that this woman is certified as being a few cards short of a full deck. First without knowing me, she calls this old Swamper a "Republican." Now, she is accusing me of being a member of the Tea Party, hell Faye, I'm not THAT old, besides I don't even like Boston. Guess what else my little chickadee, I don't watch or read the news, turn on a TV, or fret over things beyond my field. I read, study, walk in jungles, swamps, and cold cloudy mountains, speak with natives, eat with the poor, and give of myself to the down and out. That's my world, sorry yours is so F****D up.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Its going to get up to 168mph between Tampa and Orlando's airport?  What stretch and for how long?

From what I understand, about 40 miles (half the trip) along I-4 on the non-stop express trips

And it will still only save 30 minutes (not really, once you factor in drives to/from stations and wait times for trains) for $60 roundtrip?  This, also really assuming most people along this corridor want to go directly from DT Tampa to Orlando's airport.  I'm really perplexed to how we've gotten this far and haven't seriously questioned several critical elements of the plan.  Since we're dreaming big on Uncle Sam's dime, we might was we'll just build a subway and call it a day.  After all, its about creating construction jobs, not logic. Hopefully, the windows will be tinted like JTA's buses.  At least that way, when it zooms down I-4, it won't look empty.

[thelakelander]

Better yet, we can take a page out of DT Rochester, NY and just paint people on the windows to make it look 100% full.

[CS Foltz]

Dark tint does hide the absence of riders...............I don't know about y'all, but I have never seen more than a dozen people riding any bus at any one time if that many! Florida could use HSR in several spots  but I still say that Orlando is not the one! Not a question of we don't need the jobs or the system but the Orlando proposal is not fully thought out............such as nothing has been discussed or mentioned concerning "Maintenance" on any HSR which is going to be different than your standard diesel powered unit.........unless HSR will be powered that way or with gas turbines! The more that I think about this.......region not the one and too many questions that have not been thought of makes me wonder just what the heck is going to go in there? System just for the sake of job's is doomed to fail from the start and that would be a double whammy......jobs and money!

[thelakelander]

HSR rail makes sense between these cities, especially once Miami is tied into the system.  Unfortunately, its not going between two cities.  Its going from one city to another city's airport on a path that avoids the populated and most congested areas of Central Florida.  I wonder if any studies were done to see where Central Florida trips actually start and end?

[CS Foltz]

I don't know lake..........maybe tufsu1 would have an idea? I don't agree with the proposed route since as you pointed out  "One City to anothers Airport" and with no regard to population demographics? LR would be a better fit and that would only be if that system is layed out for people to use! By the way, I have not seen anything regarding a "Maintenance" yard have you?

[thelakelander]

No.  I have no idea of where that would be.  Where ever it is, this would be where most of the permanent jobs with this system would be.  Perhaps tufsu1 would know.

[FayeforCure]

And it will still only save 30 minutes (not really, once you factor in drives to/from stations and wait times for trains) for $60 roundtrip? 

Ah, so you must be against the investments needed to upgrade the Acela to true high speed rail too! Since it only cuts 30 min. from a 2.5 hour trip for a mere $5 billion!

Amtrak's Acela is able to reach 150 mph along small portions of its route from Washington to New York City and on to Boston, but it still only averages 68 mph. According to Amtrak, the southern portion of the route -- roughly from New York City to Washington, D.C. -- currently takes an average of 2 hours and 45 minutes to travel about 220 miles. To cut just 15 minutes off the trip would take an estimated $625 million. To cut an additional 15 minutes could cost as much as $5 billion.


For comparison, Florida submitted a stimulus application requesting $2.6 billion to build a new 88-mile high-speed rail line linking Tampa and Orlando that would operate in excess of 168 mph. Because the state has previously preserved most of the needed right-of-way between the two cities, it estimates the project will cost a total of $3.5 billion. But the state lacks the same right-of-way advantage for the next stage of its plan, an estimated $8 billion service running from Orlando to Miami.

Lawmakers who will play major roles in future high-speed rail spending are split on what they would like to see, with many coming down on the side of the debate most likely to help their home districts.

http://www.eenews.net/public/Greenwire/2009/10/22/1

House spices up Amtrak reauthorization proposal with HSR and.. hints of privatization? May 18, 2008
Posted by Logan Nash in Amtrak, Passenger Rail Transportatio Policy, United States High Speed Rail.
Tags: Amtrak, high speed rail, hr 6003, hsr, nec

Pat mentioned H.R. 6003 while discussing Representative Boozman’s shifting rail policy, but this year’s Amtrak reauthorization bill is deserving of discussion in its own right. On the positive side, it retains many of the positive aspects of its companion Senate bill passed overwhelmingly last fall: it increases Amtrak’s funding and removes the ridiculous self-sufficiency requirement stipulated in earlier years.

However, the legislation diverges from its earlier counterpart in its emphasis on high speed rail. While this is a refreshing development, the bill sidesteps Amtrak in its sections pertaining to HSR, instead outlining  grants for state rail projects and allowing for private HSR proposals along existing corridors.

Critics have, probably rightfully, called foul on this move, including unions and Amtrak chief Alex Kummant. Kummant points out that the 2 hour New York to DC objective that the government would seek private bids on isn’t that much of an improvement over the 2.5 hours offered by Amtrak’s current lines. He has a good quote about instead expanding NEC-style infrastructure to the rest of the country (where lower densities would make HSR building less expensive):

“Could we go south to Atlanta (from Washington)?… Could we develop a dozen 110-mile-an-hour corridors and, by the way, with the pocket change left over, rebuild every station, create parking, intermodal bus connections, transit connections?”

I’m inclined to agree with Kummant’s point. Amtrak is a national service, and the government needs to realize that the rest of the country deserves to have fast rail transportation every bit as much as the Northeast does. However, it’s important to note that the bill only requires the government to take these private bids. Further action would require more molasses-quick action from Congress.

Furthermore, there’s nothing all that radical about freeing up proposals for state HSR initiatives. As any regular reader of this blog could tell you, they’re happening anyway. The important thing is to get them built, and for legislators to realize how, even with these new projects,  the US lags terribly behind other industrialized countries in terms of high speed rail. The rhetoric around this bill would seem to at least indicate that it’s dawning on them.

So in the end, the passage of this bill would be a win for passenger rail. Not because of the tentative privatization openings, but because of increased funding for both Amtrak and separate HSR projects. We can hope that it signals more [positive] legislative attention for our rail network. But then, it will have to get across our famous rail-advocate president’s desk first.

http://trains4america.wordpress.com/2008/05/18/house-spices-up-amtrak-reauthorization-proposal-with-hsr-and-hints-of-privatization/

John Kerry says: Fix Acela speeds July 15, 2008

It’s something of an open secret that Amtrak’s Acela high-speed service, though faster than a regular NEC train, can’t hold a candle to a true high-speed line. The reason? It runs on the same tracks that have always been there, which are old, curvy, and riddled with bridges and tunnels that were never designed to withstand Acela’s theoretical 150 mph top speed.

John Kerry has told the Boston Globe that he wants to fix all that:

“Are you kidding? That train can go 150 miles an hour, (but) it goes that for, what, a couple of miles?” Kerry scoffed. “I want America to have a first-rate high-speed rail system. A high-speed rail that really lives up to the name and gets people there in the time that we ought to be aiming for.”

Kerry plans to file in two weeks a $1 billion bill that will target out-of-date bridges, tunnels and tracks that prevent the train from hitting its 150-mile-per-hour maximum and getting commuters to their destinations faster.

A billion dollars is nothing to sneeze at, but we have to consider that Kerry is going up for reelection soon. Is that enough money to make a difference? Or is he just trying to wow rail-riding constituents with his outrage over America’s one so-called high-speed train?

While Amtrak took in more than $1.4 billion in federal funds last year [TFA note: is this really necessary?], the curvature of the railroad tracks continues to be the main reason for the Acela’s low speed in the northeast, said Amtrak spokeswoman Karina Romero.

Straightening the tracks along the heavily developed eastern rail would trigger many eminent domain takings, however.

“The price would probably be exorbitant,” Romero said about the number of land takings.

Modernizing bridges and other infrastructure may increase the speed by 10 to 15 miles an hour, said Romero, but probably still would not bring the line to top speed, despite Kerry’s remarks.

A 10-15 mph increase isn’t great, but it’s certainly an improvement. What do you NEC people think? Is it worth it? Is Kerry just being a politician? I glanced at the Boston Globe comments, which is basically a large pool of vitriol against Kerry peppered with an occasional “but the Acela does need to go faster…” here and there. If even making the route workable for Acela is such a challenge, will true HSR ever be acheivable along the corridor? HR 6003 will open up the door to private offers for a high-speed line along the route… that’s not looking very feasible at the moment.

http://trains4america.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/john-kerry-says-fix-acela-speeds/

BTW, Ock's vitriol and personal attacks are highly unbecoming of a so-called "Global Moderator." I'm surprised this behavior hasn't been stopped on Metrojacksonville,..............doesn't reflect well on anyone who represents this site, and runs counter to the idea of inviting people to "get in on the conversation."

As we all know, Democracy calls for an open exchange of ideas.

Also, there are already several articles posted on metrojacksonville with his real name, even mentioning he is from metrojacksonville. No big deal. Kudos to stephendare who posts under his own name!

[Ocklawaha]

Have you READ your responses to me? I have read a few from other people rather shocked by your attitude and condescension. Condescension from where? Have you ever posted a single personal thought, or just miles of what someone else says? What ideas? Anyone can cut and paste. I said I submit to the MJ readers that you are crazy, as in, allowing them to make that decision for themselves. There are articles with my full name, in what I would consider appropriate places, which doesn't change or lessen your violation of our rules. Stephendare? Whatever Faye.

OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

My only statement to yours:

"we don't need DON'T NEED ANOTHER OCK HISTORY LESSON, to hell with the yardstick of time, education, and most of all EXPERIENCE. Otherwise we would be building the best system for the money..."

is that despite the wealth of knowledge that you possess on the subject matter, that doesn't mean you are the only one with experience, nor that your conclusions are necessarily the only right ones.

One can posses the same info., but reach different conclusions. Conclusions are also dependent on what funding sources are out there and whether one prefers a good hsr system now, over by-passing today's funding availability for a possibly better Florida hsr system sometime in the future. Conclusions also change based on economic conditions on the ground.

There are so many variables that a train expert's opinion may not be the most expedient one.

I happen to look at it from an economist point of view, and others may look at it from an environmental point of view ( like the audobon society)etc. Even among economists there are differences in opinion.

The list of people who do not agree with your opinion was only to allow you to reach more people with your opinion, and to show you that limiting yourself to just addressing me is fruitless. Sorry you took it as condescension,........I know I felt condescension from you. Some of you sexist talk is completely out of line and highly offensive, and surely not part of the mission of metrojacksonville, which you are a representative of.

Heck, there is more work to be done to reform the anti-rail folks that are out there. Let's focus on our common goal of that, rather than go for perceived  "purity" in rail projects from your point of view.

[Ocklawaha]

It's F.U.B.A.R. Faye. My dear, you've set your gaze upon the quintessential up through the ranks, railroader type. Note the heavy silhouette... eyes closed by the tropical sun, though observant as a hawk. He's got the look of both predator and prey...and you have called his focus to HSR. A final word? Why Faye does this mean we're not friends anymore? You know Faye, if I thought you weren't my friend... I just don't think I could bear it.  Eventus stultorum magister.

Jax, B.O.H.I.C.A.!  If y'all need me I'm going to be down by Landing walking on water.


OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

And it will still only save 30 minutes (not really, once you factor in drives to/from stations and wait times for trains) for $60 roundtrip? 

To tell the truth, I have not ridden the Acela enough to be for or against it.  However, it does have something going for it the I-4 plan does not.  It goes from city center to city center and is complemented in each major city by localized rail services that go where people live.  So the time issue becomes a little irrelevant because a significant population along that corridor can live and get around without even owning a car.  If Florida HSR plan comes with similar features and design, I'll be a larger supporter for it than you are.

[CS Foltz]

From my point of view...............Mass Transit is all about having a people moving system that does not require cars or bus's to get to it! It should be within easy walking or biking distance, but the Orlando proposal manages to skirt high density population areas, travels from one city's Airport to another City's center oh and by the way eventually will go to Miami? This is a system that does not serve the area's population but an Airport's ingress and egress so where is the benefit for the local populace? An additional tax or maybe some jobs to install the system and operate it? If that system would benefit the entire state that is one thing but it does not! Florida needs HSR but not there!