Rick Mullaney: A History of the Consolidation Movement

[Dog Walker]

Cleveland and Detroit are two great examples of what happens when cities and counties do NOT consolidate.  Decaying centers surrounded by affluent suburbs.  Though that "affluent suburb" thing is changing rapidly in Detroit because of other factors.

[stjr]

Cleveland and Detroit are two great examples of what happens when cities and counties do NOT consolidate.  Decaying centers surrounded by affluent suburbs.  Though that "affluent suburb" thing is changing rapidly in Detroit because of other factors.

The problem with this is that there always seems to be a "newer", further-out, suburb.  Look at Jax.  We now have people flocking to suburbs OUTside our CONSOLIDATED city.  What happens if this goes to the same extreme as the cities you cite?  The consolidated city will be no different than the urban cores you mention.  Consolidation would have merely served as a delaying mechanism to the condition you describe.

The answer is to build model cities in which migration is INward to the urban core, not outward.  How do we do that?  Cities like New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Chicago, and San Francisco, to varying degrees, seem to offer possible scenarios for study and copying.  Good mass transit, cultural institutions, and quality educational systems go a long way to solving these issues.  Just like businesses, cities need to reinvest wisely in themselves rather than blindly support urban sprawl, which, once ignited, can kill the city that started it all.

[vicupstate]

I noticed that Mr. Mullaney mentioned Memphis.

I posted on MJ just a few days ago that the newly-elected Mayor of Memphis, ran on a platform to consolidate with Shelby County.  He won overwhelmingly against 20+ opponents.  He already held the position of Mayor of Shelby County.  

It will be interesting to see if he pulls it off.  If successful, Memphis would push Jacksonville down a spot on the list of largest cities.

***

I also would like to correct a post I made yesterday.  I had stated that the Beaches and Baldwin APPROVED consolidation while at the same time approving on the separate question, to remain an independent city under the consolidated government.  

I stated that all four approved both consolidation and independence in the '67 vote.  I checked my source today, and while I was correct on the beaches, the town of Baldwin did NOT approve consolidation.  However, that had no affect on the outcome, as that question was settled on the countywide result.    

[Ocklawaha]

Hello Rick,

Thank you for taking your time to join us in this great story, of course I too have questions. If you frequent our pages, I'm an Editor on MJ, a sometimes retired railroad planner from Jacksonville, who also calls Colombia home, both are my desire and passion to improve upon. I realize you are not in any of the following, however I can think of no one more qualified to perchance an opinion on getting action.

Streetcars? Your thoughts on avenues of approach if JTA does not complete the studies, environmental impact, and engineering. I'm talking of vintage JACKSONVILLE TRACTION Company style operation, much like that of Tampa, Memphis, Little Rock, Kenosha, Dallas...etc.  Several have responded with ideas for nonprofits, museums, creation of a streetcar transit (tax - impact fee) benefit district, citizens petitions, etc.

Skyway? A dead duck when we have Billions being handed out in DC for existing systems, many funded at 100%. Certainly it has no ridership, why? Take any office building with a grand staircase, and chop off the top 5 steps and the bottom 5 and see what use it gets. Again, ideas? How do we move our sleeping giant?

Transportation Center? The JTA plan is a disaster. I have spoken with the Federal Railroad Administration, about filing a stop work order under safety (FLOOD PLAIN) violations. As you may know, I drew up a compact design that addresses this and other questions, Mr. Davis, was enthusiastically supportive and drew up a professional rendering. How to take the mountain to Mohammad, or can we carry Mohammad to the mountain?

If any of these questions will require more then we can put into quick answers, send me a PM and I'd love to meet with you and some of the JTA and MJ staff.  There is so much to this subject and having a highway builder as a Mass Transit Agency, certainly tips the scales against transit. You may recall that it was a highway, oil, auto, rubber, conspiracy that was proved as the perpetrator in the abandonment of America's electric railways. Old habits die hard. Within this year, both myself and Stephendare, have asked JTA for the engineering drawings, estimates and all studies on the various Skyway extensions. They seem to be "lost," then we were told they never were completed to any real price estimate, never even drawn. We found this very interesting, because our Lakelander, was able to find a file with cost estimates, on those very extensions.

Privatize the Skyway and the Streetcar project? How about the station too? A lease from the city and the operating or capital grants and we'll make them sing.

OCKLAWAHA

[Ocklawaha]

I love it Stephendare, I think the whole gang of us should head down to Cartagena! Sucre / Sal.

OCKLAWAHA

[CS Foltz]

Mr Mullaney...I wanted to say thanks for participating with the metrojax forum and have one simple question for you. I would like to know who or whom took it upon themselves to remove the "Ethics Guidelines" from the original revised Charter. For it's time it was very progressive but now we have nothing in writing at all! Hopefully that will change with the new Charter Commission!

[sheclown]

Thanks for meeting with us in this space & place!

[BridgeTroll]

Outstanding conversation!  Bravo to the great questions and thoughtful answers!  This is the kind of dialogue that sets MetroJax above the rest.  I look forward to more...

[buckethead]

Outstanding conversation!  Bravo to the great questions and thoughtful answers!  This is the kind of dialogue that sets MetroJax above the rest.  I look forward to more...

Agreed. Please consider also Mr Mullaney, that there are quite a few more readers in threads like these than contributors. We one-line bandits tend to stay quiet and try to listen and observe when the discussion is more important/informative.

Thanks for sharing your time and mind with us.

[vicupstate]

This question is more on the 'history' of consolidation than the future, but here goes.

I'm a little fuzzy on the details, this is from memory alone, so bare with me.  I believe in the '80's, there was a section of what is now Atlantic Beach that left the City of Jacksonville proper for Atlantic Beach.  I think this is the northern-most part of Atlantic Beach.  I think this section is called Seminole Road or Seminole Beach or something like that.

What were the circumstances around that, and how did it occur?  Was it implemented via the City of Jacksonville, the state or both?  Could it happen again?  There was some concern at the time that it could lead to an 'unraveling' of consolidation.  Given that it hasn't happened since, I guess that was not the case, still it is an interesting footnote. 

Thanks in advance for any info. 



         

[Rick Mullaney]

I want to thank all the readers for their comments and questions. They have really been good and this has been a great discussion. I also appreciate how thoughtful everyone has been.

I want to briefly clear up something that may be confusing from today's presentation of my comments to the Charter Revision Commission on July 30, 2009. When discussing duplication of services, and legal services in particular, I tried to express that other local governments have multiple city attorneys' offices and a county attorney office. For example, Miami-Dade has about 80 attorneys in the county office and multiple city attorney offices as well. For example, I believe the City of Miami has about 30 city attorneys and other cities, also within Miami-Dade, have their own city attorneys' office. This is true for other counties as well. For example, Hillsborough County has about 40 attorneys in the county office and the City of Tampa, I believe, has over 25 attorneys.

All of this is in contrast to Jacksonville. We have 40 attorneys in the General Counsel's Office. We are, in effect, both the county attorneys' office and the city attorneys' office all in one.

I hope this makes sense.

[stjr]

Rick, for more discussion and comments, see the other threads with Ed Austin and you and Tommy Hazouri.  Maybe you could relate some of our discussions/ideas to the Charter Revision Commission.  They would surely listen more closely to you than us.    Thanks!

Ed Austin and You:  http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6577.msg107467/topicseen.html#new

Tommy Hazouri: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,6539.msg107465/topicseen.html#new

[Rick Mullaney]

Thanks again for the great questions. MJ suggested that I focus on a particular question instead of, as I tried yesterday, to answer as many questions as I could. So here goes.

A fair and I think important question from yesterday was why, if consolidation is such a great form of government, aren't other counties and cities doing the same thing? Good question.

In short, there are usually built in obstacles to adopting consolidated government and absent crisis and statesmanship (Jacksonville had both in the 1960's) it is unlikely to happen. For one thing, when you abolish the city government and the county government, to create the consolidated government, the incumbent elected officials lose their jobs. And, although this often is addressed through attrition, many public employees believe they will lose their jobs. Not surprisingly, those who may lose their jobs often oppose the change. In addtion, those who have access and relationships with the existing structure typically oppose change. Vested interests often oppose change. And, not surprisingly, change itself intimidates some. It is easier for many to simply stay with the status quo than try something that is such a significant change.

Despite these obstacles, many cities and counties are exploring the change to consolidated government. It is difficult to bring about, but I believe it is a far better form of local government.

[untarded]

Thanks again for the great questions. MJ suggested that I focus on a particular question instead of, as I tried yesterday, to answer as many questions as I could. So here goes.

A fair and I think important question from yesterday was why, if consolidation is such a great form of government, aren't other counties and cities doing the same thing? Good question.

In short, there are usually built in obstacles to adopting consolidated government and absent crisis and statesmanship (Jacksonville had both in the 1960's) it is unlikely to happen. For one thing, when you abolish the city government and the county government, to create the consolidated government, the incumbent elected officials lose their jobs. And, although this often is addressed through attrition, many public employees believe they will lose their jobs. Not surprisingly, those who may lose their jobs often oppose the change. In addtion, those who have access and relationships with the existing structure typically oppose change. Vested interests often oppose change. And, not surprisingly, change itself intimidates some. It is easier for many to simply stay with the status quo than try something that is such a significant change.

Despite these obstacles, many cities and counties are exploring the change to consolidated government. It is difficult to bring about, but I believe it is a far better form of local government.

I witnessed this in Orlando's consolidation effort.  The City Fire Department was strongly opposed while Orange County Fire Dept was strongly in favor of consolidation.  City employees had significantly higher salaries and benefits than their County counterparts.  The city employees feared they would largely be replaced by lower paid County employees after consolidation.

[Rick Mullaney]

Thanks stjr for telling me about the seperate threads. I am new to this and still learning. I was not aware of the seperate threads on consolidation. Thanks for your patience and helping me along.

Overall, I think this is a great way to conduct a community discussion. Thanks to MJ for proividing this opportunity to discuss consolidated government.