Hey Orlando, Get Your Act Together, Like Tampa, and Pay for Your Own Rail

[JeffreyS]

Hey Orlando, Get Your Act Together, Like Tampa, and Pay for Your Own Rail

http://www.lakelandlocal.com/2009/10/hey-orlando-get-your-act-together-like-tampa-and-pay-for-your-own-rail/

October 22nd, 2009 9:40 am | by Billy Townsend

You may have seen that U.S. Secretary of Transportation Ray Lahood supposedly said recently that Florida won’t get high speed rail money unless the state senate agrees to CSX’s blackmail payment, eerrr, Sunrail deal.

I say supposedly because this entire muddled Sentinel story by the usually reliable Dan Tracy contains exactly two quotes from Lahood.

Key passage:

    “You’ve got to get your act together,” LaHood told the Orlando Sentinel about the Senate, which twice has failed to approve SunRail.

    “If they don’t,” he said moments later to a Florida official, “there’s going to be a lot of disappointed people.”

I’m no pronoun expert, but how is it that “you” in an interview with the Sentinel stands for “Florida Senate?” Dan? Little help? And by the way, how is it any story about this deal can fail to use the letters “CSX” and words “record per mile cost?” Dan? Come on, you’re better than that.

I suspect that Lahood does not intimately know the politics and intricacies of the CSX freight realignment/Sunrail deal and is simply pushing for as many transit deals as possible across the country. But even if that’s not true, and he’s inarticulately but honestly pushing for CSX/Sunrail, there’s a good way for the Orlando folks to get their act together and make it easier for the Florida Senate to support them.

They should take a page from the responsible transit plan backed by government officials over in Tampa Bay. They are actually trying to get their citizens to tax themselves to kick start a reasonable light rail system. By contrast, Orlando’s rail boosters want to tax everybody else but themselves and then benefit from the station development rights and Winter Haven CSX hub land value spikes and freight access. Why do you think arch right-winger Sen. JD Alexander, R-Phoenix Industries, traveled to Washington D.C. to lobby for Sunrail? Because he loves public transit? Hippy, leftist, tax-funded public transit? Probably has a little bit more to do with all the personal interests he has in the relocation deal.

If Orlando leaders were really serious about this deal, they’d convince their citizens to at least somewhat pay their own way. If they had done that, then they could whine about the state not picking up the rest of the tab for a lousy sprawl-inducing commuter rail system that a handful of people will ride.

As for CSX’s Sunrail realignment wagging the High Speed Rail dog, give me a break. One has nothing to do with the other, except for John Mica, R-Future CSX Board Member. (Hey Dan, how about asking Mica if he’ll rule out taking a pay check from CSX in the future.)

But future gubernatorial candidate Paula Dockery makes that point much more elegantly than I can in this email she sent out a couple of days ago:

    “In light of all the carefully scripted and manufactured news that has unfolded in the past two weeks, I want to respond to the double-talk of using stimulus funds as an excuse by otherwise very conservative elected officials and special development interests to secure passage of the bad deal that is SunRail.

    The reality is that the individuals who are now advocating that Sunrail is critical for the opportunity to get High Speed Rail (HSR) funds are some of the same individuals who fought to kill HSR years ago. In fact, if HSR had been properly funded then, we would have a more vibrant public transit system in our state that would have already created the many jobs and infrastructure that could have helped stem some of the economic damage we are experiencing today.

    The folks in DC are highlighting that Florida has been irresponsible in failing to establish dedicated funding that ensures the longevity of commuter rail in Florida in the form of Tri-Rail. Now, SunRail proponents have waged a public relations campaign that attempts to mask the irresponsible SunRail deal as the only means for Florida to receive federal funding for HSR.

    They are trying to hitch their wagon to the fate of Florida’s one true HSR Project that is very competitive for the $8 billion pot of Federal Stimulus funds. The SunRail project has applied for $270 million in HSR funds that by definition it does not qualify for. The 70-page Federal guidance specifically states on page 28 that Commuter Rail Projects are ineligible for HSR Funds. Please do not be fooled by the proponents of SunRail because it is clear that commuter rail funding is ineligible for HSR funds; the money will never come.

    Passage of Sunrail in its current form â€" without a dedicated funding source for its operation and without real funding for its capital improvements â€" will render the real $2.5 billion in HSR funding even less likely when we are competing with states like California that have a demonstrated historical commitment to public transit rail projects.

    The fact remains that it is the reckless failure of the legislature and the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) to provide for Tri-Rail that is creating an emergency in Florida. It is not the failure to pass the terrible deal that is Sunrail.

    If SunRail is to move forward, it should be done on its own merits and not through a selfish attempt to tie its fate to Tri-Rail or to the Tampa-Orlando-Miami HSR Application. Renegotiation of the bad terms of this Sunrail deal to make it a good deal is critical to its success. The taxpayers deserve to be protected and FDOT has a lot of explaining to do.

    We need to call out the inaccuracies and hypocrisy of holding hostage Tri-Rail and HSR money to force through a terrible boondoggle in terms of the deal that is Sunrail. We need to make SunRail contingent on the renegotiation of the price and the transfer of liability.

    This doesn’t need to be as confusing as the powerful forces are making it. Three independent rail projects all need to stand on their own and be properly vetted. Their fates are not tied and shouldn’t be. That is a trick used to force a bad deal that wouldn’t pass on its own into a deal that has broad support. The current deal for Orlando commuter rail (SunRail) should not hold hostage the opportunity to deliver HSR for all Floridians.”

[thelakelander]

I think this Lakeland blogger is off base.  He's always been against the Sunrail deal but it has more to do with the railyard in Winter Haven and trains in DT Lakeland than it does with whats going on in Tampa and Orlando.  His wife is also the Executive Director of the DT Lakeland Partnership.  So take the comments with a grain of salt.

Tampa still wants state and federal money.  However, officials want to increase taxes to help fund their local share. As far as I understand with Sunrail, the local governments have already agreed to fund their share.  I may be wrong, but this is how I've always interpreted this.

[FayeforCure]

As far as I understand with Sunrail, the local governments have already agreed to fund their share.  I may be wrong, but this is how I've always interpreted this.

I wonder how that's going to happen now with their economies in the ditch. Unemployment is 11.5% in Orlando.

[thelakelander]

Don't know for sure, but what ever situation they are in, Tampa and the rest of Florida is most likely in the same economic condition.

[FayeforCure]

Wow, the author makes some excellent points:

I suspect that Lahood does not intimately know the politics and intricacies of the CSX freight realignment/Sunrail deal and is simply pushing for as many transit deals as possible across the country. But even if that’s not true, and he’s inarticulately but honestly pushing for CSX/Sunrail, there’s a good way for the Orlando folks to get their act together and make it easier for the Florida Senate to support them.

They should take a page from the responsible transit plan backed by government officials over in Tampa Bay. They are actually trying to get their citizens to tax themselves to kick start a reasonable light rail system. By contrast, Orlando’s rail boosters want to tax everybody else but themselves and then benefit from the station development rights and Winter Haven CSX hub land value spikes and freight access

The fact remains that it is the reckless failure of the legislature and the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) to provide for Tri-Rail that is creating an emergency in Florida. It is not the failure to pass the terrible deal that is Sunrail.

    If SunRail is to move forward, it should be done on its own merits and not through a selfish attempt to tie its fate to Tri-Rail or to the Tampa-Orlando-Miami HSR Application. Renegotiation of the bad terms of this Sunrail deal to make it a good deal is critical to its success. The taxpayers deserve to be protected and FDOT has a lot of explaining to do.

    We need to call out the inaccuracies and hypocrisy of holding hostage Tri-Rail and HSR money to force through a terrible boondoggle in terms of the deal that is Sunrail. We need to make SunRail contingent on the renegotiation of the price and the transfer of liability.

And notice how the author too thinks that LaHood's comments were "intrepreted" to to Sunrail's benefit rather than it having been specifically mentioned.

Tri-Rail is the key.

Support the commuter rail that's there already before moving onto anything new.

[thelakelander]

Knowing the author's background somewhat, I'll take his opinion with a grain of salt.  However, there are a couple of things he mentioned worth elaborating on.

They should take a page from the responsible transit plan backed by government officials over in Tampa Bay. They are actually trying to get their citizens to tax themselves to kick start a reasonable light rail system.

I don't know if this is the best way to go.  What is Tampa's fallback plan if taxpayers refuse to vote this issue down?  Does this mean that Tampa will have no rail plan for the future during a time when the federal government is pro rail?  The answer to that is YES.  Its a bad idea to put all your eggs in a basket, who's bottom is close to falling out.

I've always been an advocate of implementing a "no-frills" starter line BEFORE raising tax dollars.  This gives a community a chance to enjoy the benefits of rail immediately, which makes gives taxpayers a chance to see a finished product before being asked to pay for something they may not fully understand.

By contrast, Orlando’s rail boosters want to tax everybody else but themselves and then benefit from the station development rights and Winter Haven CSX hub land value spikes and freight access.

Statements like this, highlight the Lakeland blogger's bias.  Both Orlando and Tampa want State and Federal tax dollars.  There is nothing different on this end.  Locally, Central Florida counties decided to pony up some cash before asking taxpayers for more.  Tampa is pretty much noncommittal until taxpayers agree to tax themselves more.

In addition, I did not realize that Ocala, Winter Haven, Jacksonville, Clay County and Tampa (to name a few) were parts of Orlando?  These are a few places that will directly benefit from the Sunrail project.

[FayeforCure]

Knowing the author's background somewhat, I'll take his opinion with a grain of salt.  However, there are a couple of things he mentioned worth elaborating on.

They should take a page from the responsible transit plan backed by government officials over in Tampa Bay. They are actually trying to get their citizens to tax themselves to kick start a reasonable light rail system.

I don't know if this is the best way to go.  What is Tampa's fallback plan if taxpayers refuse to vote this issue down?  Does this mean that Tampa will have no rail plan for the future during a time when the federal government is pro rail?  The answer to that is YES.

Well, they wouldn't want to risk that,..........so they polled the voters and found voters in the Tampa area were willing to pay 1 cent more in sales tax for having LRT. Maybe they are a little more forward thinking in Tampa,.....or maybe it's because they have a woman for mayor 

Statements like this, highlight the Lakeland blogger's bias.  Both Orlando and Tampa want State and Federal tax dollars.  There is nothing different on this end.  Locally, Central Florida counties decided to pony up some cash before asking taxpayers for more.  Tampa is pretty much noncommittal until taxpayers agree to tax themselves more.

So counties that "promise" to pay for something is more committal than getting a dedicated funding source? Wow, you've really lost me there.

[thelakelander]

Knowing the author's background somewhat, I'll take his opinion with a grain of salt.  However, there are a couple of things he mentioned worth elaborating on.

They should take a page from the responsible transit plan backed by government officials over in Tampa Bay. They are actually trying to get their citizens to tax themselves to kick start a reasonable light rail system.

I don't know if this is the best way to go.  What is Tampa's fallback plan if taxpayers refuse to vote this issue down?  Does this mean that Tampa will have no rail plan for the future during a time when the federal government is pro rail?  The answer to that is YES.

Well, they wouldn't want to risk that,..........so they polled the voters and found voters in the Tampa area were willing to pay 1 cent more in sales tax for having LRT. Maybe they are a little more forward thinking in Tampa,.....or maybe it's because they have a woman for mayor 

We'll see what happens when the actual vote comes down.  I hope it passes.  A decent rail system in Tampa is long overdue.

Statements like this, highlight the Lakeland blogger's bias.  Both Orlando and Tampa want State and Federal tax dollars.  There is nothing different on this end.  Locally, Central Florida counties decided to pony up some cash before asking taxpayers for more.  Tampa is pretty much noncommittal until taxpayers agree to tax themselves more.

So counties that "promise" to pay for something is more committal than getting a dedicated funding source? Wow, you've really lost me there.

The problem is the Tampa situation doesn't allow for a middle ground or secondary plan if the vote does not pass.  Given their transit situation and voting history, that's pretty crazy proposition.  Its $5 billion or bust.  If it passes, great.  But if it does not, that region is screwed and forced to start over from scratch with half of Obama's term already near completion.  Imo, take whatever funds you do have and start up a no-frills demonstration project along the track from Ybor to SoHo that is already in place, similar to what Ottawa did with the O-Train.  You'll hit Ybor, the TECO Streetcar line, Union Station, DT Tampa, Univ. of Tampa, Hyde Park Village and SOHO in the process.  Also, it won't bankrupt you and you'll be able to enjoy the benefits of rail immediately, in the urban core, instead of a decade down the road at best (assuming the referendum passes).

[tufsu1]

Well, they wouldn't want to risk that,..........so they polled the voters and found voters in the Tampa area were willing to pay 1 cent more in sales tax for having LRT. Maybe they are a little more forward thinking in Tampa,.....or maybe it's because they have a woman for mayor 

or maybe because they asked people in 2007, before the economy tanked...and before TBARTA said the LRT plan would cost $5 Billion...and that the overall regional plan was over $50 Billion!

As for Mayor Iorio...she seriously stumbled in her first term and did nothing useful...her second term has been focused on transit and the Riverwalk (which was supposed to be finidhed for the Super Bowl but still isn't).

[FayeforCure]

Well, they wouldn't want to risk that,..........so they polled the voters and found voters in the Tampa area were willing to pay 1 cent more in sales tax for having LRT. Maybe they are a little more forward thinking in Tampa,.....or maybe it's because they have a woman for mayor 

or maybe because they asked people in 2007, before the economy tanked...and before TBARTA said the LRT plan would cost $5 Billion...and that the overall regional plan was over $50 Billion!

Cute but no cigar. Even in 2009 folks in Tampa are ok with actually paying for LRT through taxation:

in St. Petersburg elections »

September 22, 2009
Rail poll: Property taxes are too high, but voters would support a sales tax
PINELLAS COUNTY -- County voters wouldn't want to fund a light rail system if it meant raising property taxes, but they be willing to pay for it through higher sales taxes, according to a poll of 500 registered county voters commissioned by the Pinellas Suncoast Transit Authority.

The PSTA board will discuss the poll Wednesday, but a presentation says 62 percent of voters would favor a 1-cent sales tax increase if property taxes were reduced, too. About 31 percent would oppose it.

The poll quizzed registered voters on their opinions about busing improvements, a combination of busing and light rail, and various funding options, including raising property taxes, a gas tax, a sales tax, or a sales tax paired with a decrease in property taxes.

Rail advocates have sought a referendum as early as 2010 to hike the sales tax to build a better transit system.

The telephone survey was conducted by Fallon Research Aug. 30 to Sept. 3 and has a margin of error of 4.38 percentage points.

David DeCamp, Times staff writer

http://blogs.tampabay.com/baybuzz/2009/09/rail-poll-new-property-tax-bad-sales-tax-good.html

[JeffreyS]

It is good to hear voters in this state vote to fund something like this. Maybe this state gets a bad rap on that front though. We voted for state wide HSR only to have deceitful wording get it overturned. Locally we voted for the better Jacksonville plan very progressive Higher taxes for higher standard of living.

[thelakelander]

Polls also said voters approved of giving Cecil back to the Navy but things did not turn out that way on election day.  Tampa needs rail but don't get your hopes up on a random selection of 500 people in a metro with over 2.7 million residents.

[CS Foltz]

lake I agree!......I am allways leery of random sampling polls............too easy to skew answers in the direction one wants and the numbers,as you pointed out, are not representative of that many millions of people!