FDOT Spills JTA's Guts at Transit Center Meeting

[Ocklawaha]

The meeting followed the standard format, except that no one presented the darn program, it was total Power Point with voice. At the end the public was invited to come forward and speak toward the face in a big ball of flame. "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain..." When one of our citizens tried to face the designers and put a question to them, he was ordered to "COME FORWARD!, COME FORWARD!" My greatest fear was they were going to challenge us to bring back the broom stick that the JTA guys rode in on... Didn't happen.

What did happen was FDOT and JTA stumbled big time and exposed for all to see the writing between the lines.
My questions?

Why, when Amtrak, USDOT, and CSX plan to bring a corridor type service to Florida, are we thinking of only 2 platforms and 3-4 tracks, when the USDOT suggested we build with 12 tracks?

Answer? This is only to handle CURRENT Amtrak trains. You have to remember that the original station was a "Head House" and all of the tracks were where the Prime Osbourne now sits, so we are very limited on space.
My Comment... Who told you that? The original station had 29 tracks, of which 10 were THROUGH tracks and passed by the station on the SOUTH SIDE toward the FEC. So there is room for 10 tracks with platforms.
Answer? Oh, well it's only for Amtrak. 
(real advance thinking there fellas)

Why are we planning a giant overhead building forcing passengers up and over the tracks when there is already a subway under them?

Answer? That Subway is gone, FEC lowered its tracks and tore it up. (uh huh? the FEC was at the END of the Subway)
Comment... "Excuse me, but I was there when the rebuild started and they simply filled the entrys with debris and laid a slab over it"
Answer? Well it's gone. No it's not. Yes it is. No its not. Yes it is. Well besides WE PLAN TO BUILD A NEW ONE for baggage!

Question? I note that you have the tracks going UNDER the Park Street viaduct, how is that going to happen when the new viaduct was built WAY TOO LOW?
Answer? Don't worry, we thought about that, we'll just put those tracks in a tub and lower them.
(Afterward, I asked the NY planners if they knew the history of the site? If they knew of the storm that blew down the great train shed of the old station, and the FACT that railroad crews were pulling Lilly Pads out of train car seats down there for months...)
Really? Gee Whiz, we better plan on installing pumps.

Question? If we are about to move the Prime Osbourne, wouldn't it save eveyone in this room a ton of tax dollars to just use those buildings for Transportation and move the whole thing to the Prime site? Then use the money to build a nice Convention Center down the road?

Answer: "Well we were told this is the station, but not to touch it in any way... we don't want Amtrak passengers mixing with Convention goers..."

Question? What about the new bus terminal, this is designed with platforms for the BRT system right? (right!)
Was any design orders given to make sure it could clear a Light Rail Vehicle? Streetcar? Is there room overhead for wire, pans, poles, or pantograph?
Answer.....?
Drum Roll Please...

No! We were told the Jacksonville Rapid Transit system will be entirely based on BRT!

BINGO!

QUESTION? Well, what about our future commuter rail, we understand JTA is doing a future Rail study as we speak, why are we not thinking large enough for RAIL?

No! We were told the Jacksonville Rapid Transit System will be entirely based on BRT!

BINGO #2

(Shades of 1980's and Skyway smoke and mirrors? "We are doing a Trolley Study..." BULL SHIT!)

Comment... "Great, well I noted your presentation ended with the seal of approval from the COJ, MPO, FDOT, JTA etc... But you left out three...?

(Oh really? which ones?) You know I love it when the fish takes the bait...

GENERAL MOTORS
STANDARD OIL
and
FIRESTONE

Otherwise, the National Railroad Historical Society and a few citizens were very honest in saying how much they wanted this place to be as they said, "The TEMPLE OF TRANSPORTATION, it was intended to be".

A young couple, obvious Urbanites, with heavy urban design experience, dove in head first on all of Lakes favorite subjects... walkability, community, retail, residential...

They too were met with, "We were told not to mess with the flow of traffic off of I-95 and onto the surface streets, that's why we are giving you the overhead walks from the parking garage to the BRT terminal..."

My comment: So if you come in by train, you get off at ground level, go up an elevator, walk a city block, go down an elevator, dodge traffic on bay street to cross with your bags, go up an elevator, walk another 1/4 block to the Skyway, and wait for the train they won't finish. Why not just bring the Skyway around back and into the Amtrak platform area's in a TUB. So passengers can do across the platform changes?

ANSWER: We moved the parking garage to the end of the Skyway line, we honestly wanted and even planned to bring it around back like you suggest, but the historical society wouldn't let us, "MESS WITH HISTORY". (Yeah, like the Prime is a real historic restoration of the old depot and NOTHING modern there)

Comment: So you've boxed in the Skyway, to the point where it Can't get at the passengers.

Answer: Yes, we really had no say in that. (READ JTA STRIKES AGAIN)

My question to you, gentle readers, is now that the cat is out of the bag, FDOT has spilled JTA's guts in this meeting, did the press get it? Do we ALL get it now?

TIME TO RAMP UP THE HEAT!!

Ocklawaha

[thelakelander]

Ock, was the Folio reporter there to hear all of this?  This really sounds like a great way to blow a good chance at improving the efficiency of mass transit in this community all because of poor planning and a lack of vision.

[RiversideGator]

Ock, please dont confuse the JTA/DOT "planners" with the facts.  They are extremely bull headed and they already have a plan which they will stick with come hell or high water.  They could care less about consumer preferences, downtown development, synergy or anything else except getting federal and state funding and perpetuating their miserable jobs.  These guys couldnt last a minute in the private sector. 

[thelakelander]

Public sounds off on proposed transit center

Riverside residents Rob and Kassia Zinn attended the meeting and both criticized the architectural design of the project.

“This looks like a strip mall,” said Kassia Zinn before calling the design mediocre.

Rob Zinn said the architecture doesn’t “say a whole lot about us.”

full article: http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=49221

[thelakelander]

High-tech center aims to improve transit

The $147 million project seeks to make transportation quicker and easier; critics say it lacks foresight.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/011108/met_235433651.shtml

[thelakelander]

Kassia Zinn, an architect, challenged designers to work harder to revive La Villa. She said renderings of the center - essentially a multimillion dollar welcome mat - made Jacksonville look like a strip mall instead of a center of technology and commerce.

"I wouldn't like the people coming to Jacksonville to think this is a town of mediocre people who settle for mediocre design," she said.

I agree with this Architect.  I assume that it still will have to go before the DRC, although they do have a history of approving poorly designed buildings.

Planners countered by saying they did not want to overstep the look of the historic train terminal and that the project should stimulate economic development.

What a weak response.  You can't stimulate economic development with a decent design?  Furthermore, the center is so spread out over seven blocks, with the historic terminal on the southside of those blocks.  The distance is so great that the new construction could be a completely different architectural style and not distract from the historic terminal at all.

[Jason]

It seems to me the city just wants to cover up the LaVilla boondoggle with something new ASAP.  The demolition of an entire historic district has left a bad taste in the public's mouth.

[gatorback]

Ocklawaha:  That had to been a lot more fun then just Tazering them.  I got a kick out of that buddy, thanks for posting it.