Can JTA Be Trusted? Misstates Bus Stop Numbers, Maintenance Costs - What's Next?

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1........I could quote from a TU Front page Headline "We could have done this Budget on the back of a napkin", this quote is from a Council person who I believe was on the so-called Finance Committee! What was looked at.............closing the Inspector General's Office, the Mayor overroad that.......duplicate functions are throughout government! Do not fund the Veterans Day Parade......mere tokenism! There were no cuts to speak of other than small things that matter to the Senior Citizens and to the Veterans. JEA & JTA Budgets were passed without review or discussion and the Mayor got just what he wanted to begin with! We pay $12 Million Dollars for 200+ AIMO's for positions that should have been filled with Civil Service personnel...........I could go on and on...........but I disagree! There was no Budget review and the Council just rubber stamped this Budget and till they show differently I expect them to rubber stamp the next one also!

[tufsu1]

I suggest that you poll City councilmembers and ask them if they reviewed the budget in detail or just rubber-stamped it.

[Ocklawaha]

Folio Weekly revealed this week that JTA misstated both the number of bus stops and the average maintenance costs by playing number games.  JTA offered no valid explanation for the misleading numbers.

JTA counts bus stops by counting as a stop a location EACH time a bus route includes it.  So, if five bus routes stop at the same corner in Riverside (as they do at Park and Herschel), JTA counts that corner as five bus stops!  As Folio notes, that's like counting airport gates based on the number of daily flights, or counting roads based on the number of cars traveling them.  Folio says the real number of stops isn't over 6,000 as represented by JTA but abut 3,660. (JTA now claims the real number is closer to 4,300.)

This is probably more of a lack of transit savvy then a true error on JTA'S part. Tufsu1, Lake, fsujax etc... back me up on this if you wish. Most every transportation system uses two systems to count routes and what lies along them. In this case you have highway miles, and on the other hand route miles. Highway miles is going to account for a single stop that serves 3 routes, because the buses use that section of road for a given distance. Route miles is going to account for each route as a stand alone entity, each stop counted PER ROUTE. Thus that same stop for 3 routes would count 3 times.

In rail and light rail it's route miles and track miles, my recent post on Miami Tri-Rail used track miles, which is around 141, because every inch of track is counted, side tracks, double tracks, each piece gets its own count.

So it's not some conspiracy that JTA could use 2 sets of numbers, it is however a professional way to access quick information about a large system.

Folio also claims JTA has reported three differing sets of numbers for bus shelter maintenance (i.e. repairs and cleaning) over the last two years: $3,500, $950, and $1,200.  If this wasn't bad enough, they said that if the real costs for the fiscal year 2008 of $94,985 was divided by the 350 shelters existing, the real annual maintenance number is ONLY $271 ! JTA inflated the number by taking the costs of maintaining (i.e cutting grass and collecting garbage) ALL bus stops and allocating it to just the bus shelters.

Bus stops will also be broken down by Highway Miles and by Route Miles, if a stop is served by a single route per day, all things being equal, it's cost will be higher then a stop serving 3 routes. Again it's a split of actual roadway distance used and how many stops can be cost estimated, or the actual routes and cost estimating each stop individually.

Folio indicates the City Council and JTA Board plan to be asking questions given this might have changed the recent debate on bus shelter ads.

I think that given the severity of the misinformation, the bus shelter ad ordinance should be immediately rescinded and reevaluated with independently audited information.  Remember too, that those supporting the ads also relied on JTA representations that its lawyers where sure, despite expert testimony to the contrary, that the City would not be legally exposing itself to billboards returning.  Now, who are you gonna believe?

None of this should be surprising given JTA's history of 90% inaccuracy after 20 years on the $ky-high-way, failing to indicate that the $ky-high-way actually loses $14 million/year, not $7 million bandied in the press, and its continuous way-off projections of the benefits of its projects over the reality of what they deliver.  Add their pleas of poverty and fiscal conservatism when their employees are getting benefits of some 55% of their salaries versus private sector ranges of 20 to 30%

.

JTA has standard operating contracts with the various transportation unions, these have been worked out at the bargaining table. Transportation is a huge responsibility, more so with passengers, while the drivers might need a bit of "charm school", the operating and maintenance crafts within JTA are professionals. The union Contracts are seen as over the top by most people in the deep south, "right to work," territory, but they can actually benefit us. JTA will bargain a contract, set the standards and be able to tell within a few cents what labor is going to cost us over the next 5 years. Something that is just not possible in a right to work shop.

Why should the public trust JTA to competently operate, manage, and prioritize our transportation systems when they "play to win at all costs" with their misinformation campaigns, whether deliberate or through incompetence.

IMO, the worst enemy of the public's desire to see JTA do something, big, bold, and RIGHT, is the fact that it's not a local agency. JTA is a STATE agency getting it's tail burned at the Tail burned in Tallahassee's new found apathy for all things Jacksonville. On the other end, the face of JTA is being bloodied by local demands, articles, and accounting. Transit should be a stand alone agency with much more City/Regional input. If a private company wants to build and maintain "free transit shelters," within our community, we should set the standards and get out of the way.

OCKLAWAHA

[FayeforCure]

Folio Weekly revealed this week that JTA misstated both the number of bus stops and the average maintenance costs by playing number games.  JTA offered no valid explanation for the misleading numbers.

JTA counts bus stops by counting as a stop a location EACH time a bus route includes it.  So, if five bus routes stop at the same corner in Riverside (as they do at Park and Herschel), JTA counts that corner as five bus stops!  As Folio notes, that's like counting airport gates based on the number of daily flights, or counting roads based on the number of cars traveling them.  Folio says the real number of stops isn't over 6,000 as represented by JTA but abut 3,660. (JTA now claims the real number is closer to 4,300.)

In rail and light rail it's route miles and track miles, my recent post on Miami Tri-Rail used track miles, which is around 141, because every inch of track is counted, side tracks, double tracks, each piece gets its own count.

So it's not some conspiracy that JTA could use 2 sets of numbers, it is however a professional way to access quick information about a large system.

Ah,....... I would think we ( the riders) are only interested in route miles, NOT track miles. I was wondering how you came up with the 141 figure for a Tri-Rail route that's only 72 miles.

Again, Tri-Rail ridership which the state won't support: 15,000 per day on a 72 mile route on Tri-Rail vs just 3,500 riders per day for a 61 mile route on Sunrail.

HMMMM, Tri-Rail REALLY needs our support before we build any new commuter rail, expecially one with abysmal ridership projections.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/dcblog/2009/07/dockery_sunrail_slayer_climbs.html

[tufsu1]

same argument as road miles vs. lane miles...it matters for contruction and maintenance costs

[CS Foltz]

tufsu1......I have all Council members in my address book and contacted all of them regarding the Budget that was just passed...........other than CW Johnson, who did answer my query, non of the others did not see fit to answer the simple question "Was there any discussion regarding the Budget and what could be cut"? Thats about plain and simple as I could make it and non saw fit to answer, granted they did not have to since they do not represent me, but Mr Meserve did not answer and he does represent  my District! The last time that I queried the Council members was regarding the so-called Fee's........several answered "NO" but the talley showed that they did...........thats why I love this crud, you can find an answer to alot of questions and the Council members voting record is a matter of public record! So lip service in print or on the news is one thing, but they can not hide their public accessable voting record! The so-called Mayor got what he wanted and the public got screwed again! I plan on doing what I can do to remove most of the current Council members based on performance and voting record...they do not represent their constituants!

[tufsu1]

well I e-mailed Council during the budget talks and got responses from 3 or 4.

btw, Meserve wasn't on council until last month (replaced Art Graham), so he wasn't part of the budget process.

[stjr]

This is probably more of a lack of transit savvy then a true error on JTA'S part.

So it's not some conspiracy that JTA could use 2 sets of numbers, it is however a professional way to access quick information about a large system.

Ock, you have me lol on this one!  This is quite a stretch to stand up for your friends at JTA.  They are the experts, right?  They keep the records.  I say they knew exactly what they were doing and how outsiders were interpreting the information.  Yet, they saw no need to clarify or correct it.  And, Folio caught them at it.  It's just like the T-U catching the conflict for Councilman Webb.  Waiting to get caught and come clean doesn't cut it.  Not only that, Folio asked JTA for an explanation, and JTA wasn't forthcoming.  Sorry, but IT IS A CONSPIRACY!

Bus stops will also be broken down by Highway Miles and by Route Miles, if a stop is served by a single route per day, all things being equal, it's cost will be higher then a stop serving 3 routes. Again it's a split of actual roadway distance used and how many stops can be cost estimated, or the actual routes and cost estimating each stop individually.

Ock, I couldn't make any sense of this excuse for JTA  .  Look, its real simple:  Take the total cost to maintain bus SHELTERS and divide by the number of SHELTERS.  JTA, again, appears to have knowingly computed otherwise.  MORE CONSPIRACY!

JTA has standard operating contracts with the various transportation unions, these have been worked out at the bargaining table. Transportation is a huge responsibility, more so with passengers, while the drivers might need a bit of "charm school", the operating and maintenance crafts within JTA are professionals. The union Contracts are seen as over the top by most people in the deep south, "right to work," territory, but they can actually benefit us. JTA will bargain a contract, set the standards and be able to tell within a few cents what labor is going to cost us over the next 5 years. Something that is just not possible in a right to work shop.

Ock, did Nelson Cuba coach you on this one?  Yada, yada, yada.  The police and fire argue they put their lives on the line for us everyday.  It's true and they deserve to be properly provided for.  But, in the end, the open market sets the appropriate level of comp and pay for all our jobs.  If people will take it for less, then it will pay less.

By the way, how much do JTA bus drivers get paid?  And, what of their pensions and benefits?  How does that compare to SCHOOL BUS drivers and their operations support responsible for ferrying a heck of a lot more precious passengers everyday in much more difficult circumstances?  I bet JTA bus drivers make more by a factor of 2 or 3 times or better.  How do JTA drivers compare to Greyhound drivers?  I think I can guess the answer!

IMO, the worst enemy of the public's desire to see JTA do something, big, bold, and RIGHT, is the fact that it's not a local agency. JTA is a STATE agency getting it's tail burned at the Tail burned in Tallahassee's new found apathy for all things Jacksonville. On the other end, the face of JTA is being bloodied by local demands, articles, and accounting. Transit should be a stand alone agency with much more City/Regional input. If a private company wants to build and maintain "free transit shelters," within our community, we should set the standards and get out of the way.

Not sure, Ock, what you are referring to here.  But, I will agree that transit and road building should be examined for separation into separate entities.  Better yet, to follow on your and Lake's thinking, maybe we should privatize both road building and transit.  With a profit-only modus operandi, sans subsidies by the Feds, State, and Local governments, a private operator would wring out the biases and distortions of these subsidies.  I suspect that mass transit will produce the ultimate bang for the buck.  Wallaaah!  Your dreams will be a reality!

[CS Foltz]

stjr I agree...........JTA should be split into two seperate Agency's since roads and transportation are two seperate issue's!

[tufsu1]

yes CS...roads and transportation are two separate issues :-)

[stjr]

JTA says it will put the brakes on bus shelters with ads

    * By Larry Hannan
    * Story updated at 6:51 PM on Thursday, Oct. 29, 2009

Bus shelters with advertisements may not be coming to Jacksonville after all.

Two weeks after the City Council amended its sign law to allow the Jacksonville Transportation Authority to build bus shelters with advertisements, JTA’s board said Thursday it would delay moving forward until at least January.

JTA had wanted to hire a sign company to build and maintain shelters. Instead, board Chairwoman Ava Parker  said Thursday that JTA will meet with the proposal’s vocal opponents and ask them to suggest ways that shelters can be built and maintained without a company’s help.

Parker said JTA was still committed to building more bus shelters â€" only about 350 of the city’s 6,000 bus stops are covered â€" but the negative reaction made the board decide to step back.
“We’ve studied this issue and believe we came up with the best solution,” she said. “But it’s possible there are better ideas out there, and we want to hear what they are.”

JTA builds about 20 bus shelters a year but doesn’t have money to build and maintain more. It said shelters cost $4,000 to $12,000 to build and about $1,200 a year to maintain.
JTA has said it could built about 80 shelters a year with help from a sign company.

Board member Cleve Warren  was told to meet with opponents, specifically City Council members Bill Bishop,  John Crescimbeni  and Clay Yarborough,  who were outspoken in their opposition when the council approved the amendment by an 11-6 vote.

Crescimbeni said JTA made the right call and hoped money could be found to keep advertising off shelters.

“I have several ideas for how we could do this,” Crescimbeni said. “But I prefer to discuss it with Mr. Warren before he reads about it in the paper.”

Tracey Arpen,  a former attorney with the city General Counsel Office, also said there were ways to build more shelters without ads.

“There are federal grants that could pay for the construction of shelters,” Arpen said. “And the city could designate all the fine money it collects from code enforcement violations go towards shelter maintenance.”

Opponents like Arpen and Crescimbeni worry that sign companies that don’t get the JTA contract will sue the city and argue that the amendment makes the entire 1987 sign law unconstitutional.

Attorneys for JTA and the city General Counsel’s Office have said they believe the amendment will stand up in court.

The original law limited the number of signs that could be built in the city. A voter-approved charter amendment later that year also banned billboard construction in Jacksonville and mandated the incremental removal of existing billboards.

Critics of the bus-shelter amendment have also accused JTA of collaborating with Clear Channel, the largest sign company in Jacksonville. The law firm Edwards Cohen has both JTA and Clear Channel as clients, and Parker said Thursday that the agency would review its relationship with the firm.

Vice Chairman Michael Cavendish,  an attorney with Gunster firm, will lead the review.

As a state agency, JTA is not obligated to use the city General Counsel’s Office. David Cohen,  JTA’s attorney, said he welcomed the scruntiny. He said there is no conflict because he doesn’t deal with Clear Channel and doesn’t talk about JTA business with his partner who does.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-10-29/story/jta_says_it_will_put_the_brakes_on_bus_shelters_with_ads

I believe Mr. Cohen needs to review the standards of his profession for addressing "conflicts".  A client of your law firm is a client of yours and that is a conflict from what every lawyer has told me.

I think that given the severity of the misinformation, the bus shelter ad ordinance should be immediately rescinded and reevaluated with independently audited information.  Remember too, that those supporting the ads also relied on JTA representations that its lawyers where sure, despite expert testimony to the contrary, that the City would not be legally exposing itself to billboards returning.  Now, who are you gonna believe?

JTA is on the right track with this.  As I pointed out above, given the poor process followed in approving the original decision, backing up is the only option for now.

[CS Foltz]

Hay fellas.....I gotta idea.......lets do another "STUDY"!!