Man Kicked Out of Restaurant Over Gold Teeth, Threatens To Sue

[thelakelander]

Precisely.  So, why is everyone so quick to judge the owner by saying he's a racist when it may very well just be his idea of sophistication (or in this case, Irish Pub), which has less to do with gold teeth and more to do with general preference of what the owner wants/does not want to see while he's there.

I think ignorance is the larger issue here.  The problem with this is, it really does open him up to getting his butt sued.

[Webini]

If I may...one big component is missing here, behavior.  I agree that a business owner has to right to appropriate any code he/she sees fit. But I also know that this typically goes hand in hand with the patron's demeanor. 

Do we know if this guy was behaving in a manner indicative of his rap sheet (posted on Roxy's site)?

I'm not so sure I would lump this in with racists motives simply because 'black' money spends just as well as 'white'. I'm sure if South Florida's hip-hop elite (regardless of race) were to patronize the establishment, there wouldn't have been an issue (but of course there isn't a way to prove this).

[thelakelander]

I'd say that's a low blow on the restaurant's part and seems like a cop out, the way its presented.  Him being held in jail overnight on a charge of false imprisonment has nothing to do with having gold teeth and ordering a burger.  If he was behaving badly, the gold teeth issue should have never came up and in the media reports the owner would have stated he was thrown out for bad behavior, not a teeth violation.

[Webini]

I agree with what you say about the pub posting this guy's rap sheet.  But, I'm still inclined to believe that there has got to be more to it than just "gold teeth" (for society's sake I hope so). 

I made my statement because I've seen "dress code" used in such a way as to guage people.  For example, I stood in line at a local nightspot that advertised "no jeans" on a particular night. But I and several other people (wearing jeans) were let into this club while some others with were not, and the reason they gave was because of the "no jeans" dress code.  From my stand point, the only difference between those who were let in and those who were not was demeanor. 

I know that's not quite the same being Mr. Alexander was already in the bar, but who's to say that his behavior wasn't enough to justifiably kick him out so they used the teeth as a cop out?

or am I reaching? lol

[second_pancake]

Webini touched on an important point, aside from what the behavior of this particular individual may or may not have been, it comes down to economics...what does and what does not generate a buck.  If the business previously had their doors open to anyone and everyone, and through time and trial, realized that every person who frequented their establishment wearing red hats, caused fewer patrons to enter, and were generally rowdy, didn't order very much, or didn't tip well,  causing more trouble than it's worth, then they (the business) might establish a dress code saying, no one with red hats may enter.

[thelakelander]

Then that's discrimination and that's what's getting this bar owner in trouble.

[thelakelander]

I know that's not quite the same being Mr. Alexander was already in the bar, but who's to say that his behavior wasn't enough to justifiably kick him out so they used the teeth as a cop out?

or am I reaching? lol

It may be me, but there aren't many establishment with a "dress code" stating gold teeth/no service.  Seems like the owner is asking for trouble.  Hopefully, for the owner's sake there's more to the story.  Because if there's not, this event may force Roxy's to lock their doors for good.

[second_pancake]

Then that's discrimination and that's what's getting this bar owner in trouble.

That's his right as a business owner.  If he were charging inflated prices for hamburgers, would that be discrimination against poor people?  What about having a special place outside for smokers.  Is that discrimination against NON-smokers?  No, it people are willing to pay $30 for a patty of ground beef, than that's just good business.  If by having a special place for smokers, he's bringing in clientele that other businesses dismiss, than that's good business.  If he's getting ripped off by people with gold teeth, and he enacts a policy against them,  then he's taking a proactive approach to defend his profits...good business.  That doesn't mean we can't feel bad about it if we're someone with gold teeth.  It just is what it is.  Hell, I get a bad rap all the time for being a "tree-hugger".  It upsets me, because people's notions of "tree-hugger" are distorted based on some bad apples out there and I don't like being lumped with "those people", but it is what it is.  If someone wants to turn me away because I want to drink soy milk instead of cow milk, eat turkey instead of beef, and consume only organically grown produce, well, then that's their right to do so.  And it's my right to voice my opinion about the place to all of my friends so they don't go to that place any longer, causing them to lose profit and ultimately go out of business

[second_pancake]

It may be me, but there aren't many establishment with a "dress code" stating gold teeth/no service.  Seems like the owner is asking for trouble.  Hopefully, for the owner's sake there's more to the story.  Because if there's not, this event may force Roxy's to lock their doors for good.

It's only trouble if the owner did this in a neighborhood filled primarily with people with gold teeth, lol.

[thelakelander]

Then that's discrimination and that's what's getting this bar owner in trouble.

That's his right as a business owner.  If he were charging inflated prices for hamburgers, would that be discrimination against poor people?  What about having a special place outside for smokers.  Is that discrimination against NON-smokers?  No, it people are willing to pay $30 for a patty of ground beef, than that's just good business.  If by having a special place for smokers, he's bringing in clientele that other businesses dismiss, than that's good business.  If he's getting ripped off by people with gold teeth, and he enacts a policy against them,  then he's taking a proactive approach to defend his profits...good business.  That doesn't mean we can't feel bad about it if we're someone with gold teeth.  It just is what it is.  Hell, I get a bad rap all the time for being a "tree-hugger".  It upsets me, because people's notions of "tree-hugger" are distorted based on some bad apples out there and I don't like being lumped with "those people", but it is what it is.  If someone wants to turn me away because I want to drink soy milk instead of cow milk, eat turkey instead of beef, and consume only organically grown produce, well, then that's their right to do so.  And it's my right to voice my opinion about the place to all of my friends so they don't go to that place any longer, causing them to lose profit and ultimately go out of business

So since some would claim Jews don't tip, are you saying its okay to deny service to them?  At one point, it was a business owner's right to not hire a woman if he didn't want to or to not serve blacks.  This isn't 1950 anymore.  Roxy's is walking a thin line that could easily result in them getting successfully sued.

[second_pancake]

Like I said, we don't have to like it, but a business is opened to make a profit, and if they see reasons as to why they aren't making money, they have to make decisions that will reverse that. 

We have law in our country to prevent against discrimination of things that are inherently so...things we couldn't change if we wanted to like race and sex.  It's not right to discriminate against women, jews, blacks, asians, whites et al, because they are people and did not make a choice to be born or be born who they are.  A person can change a shirt, put on a shirt, change the way their hat sits on their head, cover their tattoos, remove their piercings, even put caps over their teeth if need be.  No one should be asked to change who they are, but if it's a matter of cosmetics and the choice is comply or go away, then they should do one or the other.

[second_pancake]

Btw, to answer your question directly: 

So since some would claim Jews don't tip, are you saying its okay to deny service to them?

No.  One way a business owner might ensure he receives tips from EVERY patron, regardless of race, would be to enact a policy that a 15% gratuity is added to every bill.   

[second_pancake]

I'm really not trying to be difficult.  I'm just trying to make the point that you can't have a free-market and also say that every business in America has to serve everyone regardless of what they wear or how they look or what they can afford.  Democracy or Communism, you decide.

[Webini]

I missed a lot.  Lake, I understand where you're coming from. There aren't many establishments to go on record posting a dress code that is so strict as to mention gold teeth.  My point is that there are places that do and there is a lot more to consider when these rules are applied instead of the obvious things like race and discrimination. 

[thelakelander]

Cool.  In this case, what else is there to consider, regarding the banning of people with a gold tooth or teeth from dining in a pub? 

Considering the wearing/installation of gold teeth has historically been associated with blacks, I can see where the racism or the discrimination angle would play into it.