High Speed Rail: A No-Brainer

[FayeforCure]

Unless the reporter made a false statement, its clear as day that Sunrail and HSR's fates have been tied together.  Now its time to see if Florida can rise above political games.

Stephen and lakelander, I stand by my doubt that LaHood mentioned Sunrail by name. So I'm not willing to assume that their fates have been tied together. If that were the case it would have been mentioned in this report of the meeting too ( video included):

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/1005_high_speed_rail

Push for high speed rail intensifies
Updated: Monday, 05 Oct 2009, 11:23 PM EDT
Published : Monday, 05 Oct 2009, 11:08 PM EDT

ORLANDO - Leaders of the major cities and counties in Florida sat side by side Monday to try to find ways to convince the Florida Legislature to approve a high speed rail network to unite the state.

At stake is $2.5 billion in federal funding, part of $8 billion set aside by the Obama administration for high-speed rail projects.

Competition for the money is expected to be fierce, as several other states have applied for the money.

U.S. Department of Transportation secretary Ray LaHood met with elected officials from Tampa, Miami, and Orlando. LaHood said the main reason they want Florida to approve a high speed rail system is so later down the line, the entire country could be connected.

According to LaHood, the rail system would promote economic expansion, create options for travelers, save customers money and create jobs.

He said now is the time to approve this plan because of the stimulus money the state could receive for the project.

Last week, Gov. Charlie Crist submitted Florida's high-speed rail proposal to the federal government.

Crist's application submitted Friday to Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood was for a Tampa-Orlando-Miami route.

Crist wrote that approval by the end of this year would result in a contract by 2010 to implement the Tampa-Orlando leg.

Planning also then could proceed for an extension to Miami with the full system up and running by 2017.

[Ocklawaha]

I have doubts that the FEC deal will go down with the HSR boondoggle or Sunrail or even LRT. The FEC deal is something worked out with Amtrak as part of the national long-distance system, even funded back in 2002. As it has no relation to the other three projects, in type of services, operations, etc. it just doesn't fit. I think the FEC project is a go if ANYTHING in the USA get's a go.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Yup, that's what was said to the public. The projected reality is far different:

At best, projections forecast 3,500 daily riders â€" barely a dent in I-4 traffic â€" on a train that would top out at 45 mph and stop every three miles or so. It wouldn’t get you where you were going very fast. And if your ultimate destination weren’t within walking distance, you’d have to hop on the LYNX bus

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/story.asp?id=13255

I never said that lots of people would actually use it....but it is our job to offer people mobility options (true here in Jax. and with HSR as well)...if they choose to sit in I-4 traffic for hours instead, so be it.

[FayeforCure]

Faye.  I cant imagine that the reporter would simply make up something that wasnt said.

I will go the extra mile tomorrow and call him to ask about it, but it seems far fetched.

Here is his email address and phone number, I invite others to do the same: 
Dan Tracy can be reached at 407-420-5444 or dtracy@orlandosentinel.com.

Having spoken with the DOT assistant secretary, and having passed along this idea to Stephen Gardner of Amtrak personally (that all of our mass transit projects need to be coordinated together) I would have a hard time believing that the administration would support anything else.

What is the basis of you thinking otherwise?

Stephen, you already know why I have my doubts:
1. I do not see direct quotes from LaHood in the Orlando Sentinel that mention Sunrail by name
2. A Tampa article clearly does not link the fates of transit projects together from the federal ( LaHood) point of view
3. The only thing I see LaHood saying in the Orlando Sentinel article is that our state should show "forward thinking" on transit
4. The Tampa article clearly shows no specific connection between different projects that are up for review by the feds.

I agree with Ock that the projects will be evaluated on their own merit.

Depending on how the question was asked and what the precise answer was, a lot can be done with creative interpretation by a reporter.

Believe me, from the 50 or so articles written about my activism and run for Congress, I am often surprised how info gets "translated" in the final article. So unless actual quotes are used ( and there is a audio recording of such) there is no reason to think LaHood himself linked the two specific projects. The reporter was careful enough to not put that info in actual quotes from LaHood.

It is a well-known fact that the Orlando Sentinel has written almost weekly Editorials praising Sunrail, and would love to see an ultimatum made by the feds to get this pet project rolling again.

PS, I am well aware that the transit experts on metrojacksonville are also fans of this project hence the jubilation at LaHood's supposed remarks. We will see if any audio is available to ascertain the exact words of LaHood to this reporter.

[FayeforCure]

Yup, that's what was said to the public. The projected reality is far different:

At best, projections forecast 3,500 daily riders â€" barely a dent in I-4 traffic â€" on a train that would top out at 45 mph and stop every three miles or so. It wouldn’t get you where you were going very fast. And if your ultimate destination weren’t within walking distance, you’d have to hop on the LYNX bus

http://www.orlandoweekly.com/news/story.asp?id=13255

I never said that lots of people would actually use it....but it is our job to offer people mobility options (true here in Jax. and with HSR as well)...if they choose to sit in I-4 traffic for hours instead, so be it.

Why spend all that money if it's not going to alleviate congestion on I-4 during construction, as you said was the intent?

[thelakelander]

Faye, you're argument against Sunrail (the quote above) is the exact same argument that can be used against HSR.  While it may get you from Tampa to Orlando's airport fast, it eliminates service to all the stops, jobs, tourist attractions, and residents in between.  What good is fast, if you can see it blow through your hood but you don't have access to it?  Also, if your destination is not DT Tampa or Orlando's airport (a significant chunk of I-4 traffic isn't headed to these locations), you'll need to either rent a car or take a bus to your final destination.  Its also not going to put a dent in I-4 traffic as well.  It really adds up to being another mobility option, just like Sunrail.  Why is it okay for one mode (HSR in your opinion) but not okay for Sunrail?

[FayeforCure]

well no disrespect intended by the suggestion, but don't you think its nicer to ask the reporter in question before you imply his journalistic ethics are questionable?

As you know Faye, when you are right you are right. Count on me to back you up.

But I just cant see the reporter lying about it.

I will however, go the extra mile.

Just to clarify, I am not saying this reporter is lying ( although in the history of printed media that has been known to happen as you well know Stephen). However, I do believe there may be an interpretive translation at play. Unless LaHood's words were audiotaped, it's anyone's guess.

[FayeforCure]

Faye, you're argument against Sunrail (the quote above) is the exact same argument that can be used against HSR.  While it may get you from Tampa to Orlando's airport fast, it eliminates service to all the stops, jobs, tourist attractions, and residents in between.  What good is fast, if you can see it blow through your hood but you don't have access to it?  Also, if your destination is not DT Tampa or Orlando's airport (a significant chunk of I-4 traffic isn't headed to these locations), you'll need to either rent a car or take a bus to your final destination.  Its also not going to put a dent in I-4 traffic as well.  It really adds up to being another mobility option, just like Sunrail.  Why is it okay for one mode (HSR in your opinion) but not okay for Sunrail?

As Ock clarified, there is a huge difference with  "LONG DISTANCE RAIL TRAVEL and, (...) "corridor-commute."" ( Ock's quote)

Different objectives for each.

[thelakelander]

Different price tags too.  One is a whopping $2.5 billion with limited side benefits/permanent job creation, poor TOD development potential and a risky proposed fare.

[FayeforCure]

Different price tags too.  One is a whopping $2.5 billion with limited side benefits/permanent job creation, poor TOD development potential and a risky proposed fare.

Job creation numbers directly related to construction of HSR is projected at 15,000.

Estimates by those involved in Florida's previous high-speed rail plans indicate as many as 15,000 construction jobs could be required for the Tampa-Orlando leg. Florida's Department of Transportation estimates more than 20,000 would be created over four years for the Orlando-Miami link.

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/sep/27/co-high-hopes-for-high-speed-rail/news-politics/#

Would you be so kind as to give us the DIRECT job creation numbers for your supported commuter project that would only transport 3,500 people per day?

[thelakelander]

According to the City of Orlando:

260,000 jobs statewide and $9 billion in economic benefit

http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:VtGax5KJUUoJ:www.righttrackflorida.org/_resources/browse/file/Dyer%2520Support%2520Letter%2520to%2520external%2520audiences%2520FINAL.pdf+sunrail+job+creation&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNHny6_sA7G9VdWuFZlpIHSAV_nnYw

[JeffreyS]

So that would be more. Hmmm now which one would cost more again?

[thelakelander]

The one with 15,000 jobs, most of which will be temporary (construction jobs), that will take you from Tampa to Orlando for $30 one way.

[CS Foltz]

I still question the region planned for this system. LRT is a better fit for what is planned not HSR and if Mr LaHood 's comments are correct.....putting Sunrail and HSR in the same basket seems a bit narrow minded to me!Two different systems with the same purpose.......people moving transportation!

[thelakelander]

LRT connecting Tampa and Orlando would not be a good fit either.  The best fit is commuter rail or working with Amtrak to increase the frequency of trains running between these two cities.  Both would save money by using existing track and they would hit a larger segment of the region's population by running through the heart of Central Florida's largest cities.  If a link from Orlando's airport to Disney and the theme parks is desired, just build one as a part of a local Orlando LRT system that would be complemented by intercity rail.