FAQ: The End of the Light Bulb as We Know It

[gatorback]

Kudos second_pancake!  I'm all for being able to go off the grid; however, I'd like to be on the grid too sometimes when I need to fire up that old Macintosh tube amp I have.  

But, you are wrong with the

Smaller cars do not = more deaths.

Small cars do = more deaths.   Cars run into other things like other small cars and sidings, not just SUVs.

Here's one for you?  How many police, highway patrol, or others state or federal agents were killed in a SUV patrol vehicle?  I don't know the answer to that question but I bet percentage wise is less then in a small patrol car.

[gatorback]

No, I'm not saying there is no other option. However, this clean, safe option is continuing to be ignored by policy makers and environmentalists. These extremists have choked our nation's resources by simply banning us from drilling, making more oil refineries, building windmills on our oceans, and building more nuclear plants.

But we're not ignoring nuclear power.  In fact, recently there's been a huge rush to nuclear power applications.  The problem is it takes over 15 years from beginning the process to going on line.
Plants will be coming on line in the future but OMG doesn't nuclear scare you?  Remember 3 Mile Island?  The impact to the lives of others should be taken seriously and not rushed into just to save a few barrels of oil.

[Charleston native]

Gator, 3 Mile Island was an aberration, and alot of hype generated by Jane Fonda and her ilk. True, it was a dangerous incident, but the entertainment and media industry helped create and propagate the fear of nuclear power.

[Lunican]

Kudos second_pancake!  I'm all for being able to go off the grid; however, I'd like to be on the grid too sometimes when I need to fire up that old Macintosh tube amp I have. 

But, you are wrong with the

Smaller cars do not = more deaths.

Small cars do = more deaths.   Cars run into other things like other small cars and sidings, not just SUVs.

Here's one for you?  How many police, highway patrol, or others state or federal agents were killed in a SUV patrol vehicle?  I don't know the answer to that question but I bet percentage wise is less then in a small patrol car.

This website shows that fatality rates in SUV's are higher than the overall fatality rates for other vehicles.
http://swiharts.com/suv/

A head on collision between an SUV and a passenger car is only one type of crash. SUV's are much more likely to rollover and have longer stopping distances.

[second_pancake]

2nd pancake, I'm sorry, your logic is so convoluted, I don't even know where to begin. In no way does my choice of using incandescent light bulbs force you to live outside your choice of CFLs. Same with a car.

Hmm, really?  So, the entire world runs on fossil fuels which pollute the air I breathe.  I'm an asthmatic so I cough and hack on a daily basis as I pedal my bike through layers and layers of smoke from vehicles whose tailpipes sit so high they're directly in my face.  Very few roads are built with bicycle lanes, therefore I have to "share" the road with enormous boxes of steel traveling 30 mph faster than myself.  I can't use the sidewalk because I would be endangering the lives of those who use it for its intended purpose, walking and running.  I come home to see the news that there are no longer any polar bears because they've all drowned from the ice caps melting, but no worries, because we still have them in zoos. Yeah.  Every new thing that comes on the market is disposable.  Humans now don't have to worry about cleaning toilets because someone just invented the disposable toilet which now gives us greater space in our brand new homes that were just built using a developer that cleared a nature preserve to build 5,000 new homes...all made of redwood.  The power companies have stopped exploring all alternative energy options because it was determined that there is no such thing as global warming, and thus have increased their coal-burning to produce more electricity.  Since coal is a non-renewable resource, are supplies are dwindling, but who cares, we won't live to see that happen, that's for another generation to worry about.  I step outside to look at the sky, but I can't see what color it is any longer because of all the smog that now fills the air.  Everyone uses incandesant bulbs, and since they burn out if you bump your lamp too hard, or turn them on and off too much, they're being purchased in bulk-packs causing a greater demand and more energy used to produce the vast amounts needed to light the earth.

Of course, a lot of what I've written above is a great exageration (the first part is true), but not far fetched when you think of how unbalanced this world would be without those of us that care about nature and the world around us.  Everything that each person does directly impacts another person's life whether you want to subscribe to that belief or not. 
There are more people on the earth than you and the people that think like you.  Everytime you get into a car and drive down the road, it impacts me.  Everytime you choose to buy bottled water, it impacts me.  Everytime you purchase and use an incandesent bulb, it impacts me.  Yes, I have a choice to use something else, and you will still have a choice to use something besides CFL.  Thankfully though, your choices will be more efficient and less impactful than technology from the late 19th century.

Kudos second_pancake!  I'm all for being able to go off the grid; however, I'd like to be on the grid too sometimes when I need to fire up that old Macintosh tube amp I have.  

But, you are wrong with the

Smaller cars do not = more deaths.

Small cars do = more deaths.   Cars run into other things like other small cars and sidings, not just SUVs.

Here's one for you?  How many police, highway patrol, or others state or federal agents were killed in a SUV patrol vehicle?  I don't know the answer to that question but I bet percentage wise is less then in a small patrol car.

No, you're right.  We can't keep stupid people from driving small cars.  We're still going to have the lil ole lady who mistakes the gas for the brake pedal and drives into the daycare center, and unfortunately without her Lincoln Grand Marquis, she will probably die instead of walk away with scratches and a ticket.

I bet, and I'm reaching here, that the government, including city, don't change the size of their vehicles or the power-output of them at all.  I know, I know.  To think our government is hypocrital is just outrageous, isn't it   So, to settle your fears, I would say the number killed in SUVs will still be the same number killed in the same kind of SUVs.

[gatorback]

I wouldn't credit Jane Fonda for much let alone 3 Mile.  Here's a few others that you may not have known about:

Date: August 10, 1985
Location: Near Vladivostok, Russia
While at the Chazhma Bay repair facility, about 35 miles from Vladivostok, an "Echo"-class Soviet nuclear-powered submarine suffered a reactor explosion. The explosion released a cloud of radioactivity toward Vladivostok but did not reach the city. Ten officers were killed in the explosion.

Date: April 12, 1970
Location: Atlantic Ocean
A Soviet "November"-class nuclear-powered attack submarine experienced an apparent nuclear propulsion problem in the Atlantic Ocean about 300 miles northwest of Spain. Although an attempt to attach a tow line from a Soviet bloc merchant ship; the submarine apparently sank, killing 52.

Date: January 17, 1966
Location: Palomares, Spain
A B-52 carrying four nuclear weapons collided with a KC-135 during refueling operations and crashed near Palomares, Spain. One weapon was safely recovered on the ground and another from the sea, after extensive search and recovery efforts. The other two weapons hit land, resulting in detonation of their high explosives and the subsequent release of radioactive materials. Over 1,400 tons of soil was sent to an approved storage site.

Date: July 4, 1961
Location: North Sea
A cooling system failed, contaminating crew members, missiles and some parts of a K-19 "Hotel"-class Soviet nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine off Norway. One of the sub's two reactors soared to 800 degrees Celsius and threatened to melt down the reactor's fuel rods. Several fatalities were reported.

Chernobyl disaster", or reactor accident at the Chernobyl nuclear power ...... NY Times Headline, April 29, 1986

I'm not a tree hugger. I'm cool with nuclear power.  The point was that nuclear isn't the answer here, as that lady said.
That when one of these  buggers go off They Freaken GO OFF!  Look at how much money goes into cleaning up one of nightmares not to mention the suffering that goes on for mulitiple lifetimes.  Can you say ten of hundreds of thousands of people have been impacted by that technology. 

[second_pancake]

Aww, GatorB, come with me and hug a tree;) 

I agree with you about nuclear power.  It is a very clean and efficient source of energy, but I doubt our ability to contain that energy effectively to the point that it would be useful AND safe.  Hell, we're the poster children for 'act now, think later', and there's not a whole lot of room for error with that philosophy and nuclear power.

[Charleston native]

True, I really don't want to credit Jane Fonda for anything except treason, but she did take part in protesting nuclear plants right after the incident.

My point is that instead of using stupid bandaid solutions like mandating light bulbs, let's start creating new sources of clean, dependable forms of energy, with nuclear being the top pick. Solar and wind are not completely dependable.

2nd pancake, I've come to a point in my life where I've learned to carefully choose who and what I debate with and about. Considering your avatar, I already know your agenda, and it would be pointless for me to rebut your argument. People like you want bikes as the primary source of transportation for all people...I'd be willing to bet you want the automobile banned. I could go on, but I really don't want to. Yes, we truly disagree on alot, especially after reading your previous post.

[gatorback]

I agree with you about nuclear power.  It is a very clean and efficient source of energy, but I doubt our ability to contain that energy effectively to the point that it would be useful AND safe. 

It wasn't until recent years that the US did crash tests on concrete for understanding how a jet aircraft might reach with a containment building.   

We need to take it one step at a time.  We now better understand the technology which is why we are going forward with those applications.

[second_pancake]

It wasn't until recent years that the US did crash tests on concrete for understanding how a jet aircraft might reach with a containment building.   

We need to take it one step at a time.  We now better understand the technology which is why we are going forward with those applications.

OMG, I know!  I just saw that too.  That was some scary stuff. 

LOL, at CNative.  I actually agree with you on something ~gasps~.  And to your shock and dismay, I'm sure, it's not about the bike;)  It's this, "My point is that instead of using stupid bandaid solutions like mandating light bulbs, let's start creating new sources of clean, dependable forms of energy, with nuclear being the top pick. Solar and wind are not completely dependable."  But, everything has to start somewhere.  I'm a project manager and I deal with "stupid band-aid solutions" all the time.  The thing that I'VE come to realize is that while there may be a bigger and better solution down the road, the band-aids are usually needed to stop the immediate bleeding until such solution can be planned, developed, tested, and implemented.

I am a cyclist, yes.  I commute, I race, and I ride for recreation.  I also have a V6 truck that I drive.  I don't think bicycles are the end-all.  I don't think we should all do away with cars.  That would be the equivalent of using old technology in a faster, more technologically advanced world....kind of like that incandesent bulb;)  I do, however, think that they are a very viable solution for the majority of people in cities like ours.  Most of us live within 10 miles of where we work and we perform all of our extra-curricular activities within 5 miles of our homes.  In FL we have rideable weather year-round.  Traffic congestion is a problem, gas is at an all-time high, parking is limited, we're more aware of environmental impacts produced by cars, obesity is an epidemic,  so it's a no-brainer:  Get a bike and ride it for all the short trips and only use your car when it's absolutely necessary.  THAT is my "agenda."

[RiversideGator]

Kudos second_pancake!  I'm all for being able to go off the grid; however, I'd like to be on the grid too sometimes when I need to fire up that old Macintosh tube amp I have. 

But, you are wrong with the

Smaller cars do not = more deaths.

Small cars do = more deaths.   Cars run into other things like other small cars and sidings, not just SUVs.

Here's one for you?  How many police, highway patrol, or others state or federal agents were killed in a SUV patrol vehicle?  I don't know the answer to that question but I bet percentage wise is less then in a small patrol car.

This website shows that fatality rates in SUV's are higher than the overall fatality rates for other vehicles.
http://swiharts.com/suv/

A head on collision between an SUV and a passenger car is only one type of crash. SUV's are much more likely to rollover and have longer stopping distances.

Interesting website.  It looks like it is a private website belonging to some liberal New York couple:

Very credible.   

Let's go back to high school physics, shall we?  Force = Mass x Velocity.  So, all things being equal, if you are in a head on collision you are safer in a heavy SUV than in the lighter passenger car hit by an SUV.  This is really fundamental.  Now, roll overs are a legitimate concern, although recent engineering advances have significantly mitigated this problem.  For more on Force:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_second_law#Newton.27s_second_law:_law_of_acceleration

Oh and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration agrees that SUVs are 5-7% safer than passenger cars based on a recent study.  See:

In anticipation of the release of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration’s (NHTSA) "Early Assessment" of 2006 traffic crashes, SUV Owners of America, released today an expert analysis of 1997-2005 data for vehicle performance in all kinds of crashes. It found that SUVs are 5-7 percent safer than passenger cars in reducing fatality risk. This is particularly important for consumers that may be downsizing to cut fuel costs â€" a dangerous tradeoff...

These are the key findings based on vehicles that were involved in crashes:

    * When the analysis considers only driver fatalities (focusing more on the vehicle’s performance), and most recent years data (2003-2005) to include the contribution of the newest safety features, SUVs are 5-7 percent safer than passenger cars.
    * In crashes involving a light truck/van (includes SUVS) and a passenger car, occupant fatalities in passenger cars remained fairly constant from 2001-2004, but between 2004-2005 they declined by 4.3 percent.
    * For both passenger cars and SUVs there has been a substantial reduction in overall occupant fatality rates, and by 2005 the rates are virtually identical per 100,000 registered vehicles (13.64, passenger car / 13.84, SUVs).
    * For both passenger cars and SUVs the occupant fatality rates in rollover crashes have decreased. The percentage reduction from 1997-2005 is 15.7 percent for passenger cars and more than 19 percent for SUVs.
    * When considering the more prevalent frontal, side and rear crashes, by 2005 SUVs had become about twice as safe as passenger cars. In 2005, SUVs had an occupant fatality rate in these crashes that was nearly 50 percent lower than passenger cars (10.42, passenger cars / 5.56 SUVs).

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/-suvs-5-7-safer-than-passenger-cars-ar32839.html

[RiversideGator]

BTW, the reason why the total occupant death rate is higher in SUVs is SUVs typically have more passengers than smaller cars so a terrible accident can kill more people.  Still, on average SUVs are safer on a per passenger basis.  There really is no argument about this among the logical community.   

[second_pancake]

Ok, I demand you take down my wedding picture right this instant;)  Kidding of course.

GatorB, I can't support your love of SUVs, for any reason.  It's not a truck, it's not a van, it's not a station wagon.  It hardly ever actually goes off-road for "sport", and it's not utilitarian...most of them are lined with plush carpet and expensive upholstery.  I just don't get it.  Ok, so they're pretty and you can pack a lot of people in there, and when you drive down to the local Town Center, you can load up the back with all sorts of pretty packages, but really, why can't you do that with a car?  Seems like a whole lot of excess to me, and from my point of view (a cyclist) they are VERY dangerous.  I was hit by one on my bike while riding in St. Augustine and have close calls everyday....close calls that I don't have with a car because the vantage point for a driver in a car is much better for me than an SUV.  Let's just be up front and say the real reason why having SUVs is being defended.  It has nothing to do with the safety of one over the other, cause if everyone drove small cars and there were no SUVs, using your "physics" formula, we'd be safer and there would be fewer per accident fatalities. It's about want versus need and what we think we're entitled to.  The SUVs are there and are being sold.  They are big and give the illusion of safety when we're inside of them.  They make us feel good and therefore we want them.  It wouldn't matter if there were a study put out today that says all SUVs will roll-over and you will eventually be stranded and injured or dead on the side of the road, we'd still buy them and put 26's on them, and cute little stick-figure family stickers on the back window.

Btw, weren't we talking about lightbulbs, lol.  Funny how the subjects shift.

[gatorback]

second_pancake:  did you change your avatar because of what that lady said to you?  I hope not.  I like whatever avatar you have as long as it’s you.  Mine of course is all me! 

I went to UF.  I was the gatorback my freshmen year.  The title is given to the fastest cyclist in the bicycle class that term.  I love to ride.  I blog to educate people on the benefits of cycling.  I bike to work given good weather.

I own a 2000 model year P38.  That's the top of the line Range Rover.  It's almost 3 tons of British steel, aluminum, leather wood, etc.   It's so nice to drive.  It says what I want to say(we can still do that, it's America).  Yes, it gets 13 miles per gallon at best.  It's safe with like 8 airbags and anti-locking breaks, and Stability Control.   The car even starts humping itself (actuating the air-suspension) when it thinks it getting stuck.  The SUV's you're talking about are old without these new safety features and mostly the problem we got into trouble with was underinflated tires.  If you lowered the tire pressure, the ride was better.  That smooth ride cost a lot of people their life.

With the safety features of my Range Rover I can get anywhere.  I know most SUVs don't see more then the side of a soccer field but not mine.  I'm an out doors kind of guy.  I've never gotten stuck on my way to the lake house or off-roading with friends.  People still do that you know.

During the storms in Florida with the fallen trees, branches, and debris I was glad I had my range rover.  If somebody needed help I could offer it without worrying if the road conditions were ideal.  I'm not a doomsdayer, but get real, you better prepare youself for the future coming of the storms!


PS P38's are LEVs.  My car polutes the same amount as an LEV Honda Civic. 

[Lunican]

oh man I can't believe I was tricked by liberals from New York again!

Let's go back to high school physics, shall we?  Force = Mass x Velocity.

In an accident you want the force to be as low as possible. SUV's have changed the equation by increasing the mass and therefore increasing the force. So now people driving around in regular cars are getting in accidents with large SUV's and dying.

I guess the only solution is to drive an SUV... if you want to live.