Metro Jacksonville

What To Do With The Shipyards?

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/453492897_t9xqA-M.jpg)

The City of Jacksonville will soon be the owner of 44-acres of prime riverfront property.  With limited money set aside for capital improvements and a depressed economy, a Columbus, OH project serves as one example of how to move forward with the Shipyards.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-aug-what-to-do-with-the-shipyards

Another Park???? High risers are better. Does Northbank need more parks? Another Park? Really? Why not a Hotel & restuarant strip....there is no place to eat over there.  Smh

The current economy will not support hotels, restaurants and high-rises of any kind.

I agree with creating temporary green space including extending the Riverwalk through the entire site to Metro Park.  A continuous Riverwalk from the Hart Bridge to Five Points would be a big draw for recreational joggers and marathons.   

Ron Barton from JEDC was on the radio yesterday....he said it should be a passive park until such time as the real estate market could support other uses

Take down the chain link, complete a simple Riverwalk path to Metro Park and build a simple paved path along Hogans Creek to connect to Springfields park system. Use areas of it for Jag parking. Keep it simple, until an opportunity arises for some development

I'll volunteer to start a city garden...with a small amount of that land i could with the help of about 4 people feed the homeless downtown and then some..almost anything will grow here...i hate to see dead land...why not put a garden in it's place.

Quote from: 02roadking on August 27, 2010, 08:05:00 AM
Take down the chain link, complete a simple Riverwalk path to Metro Park and build a simple paved path along Hogans Creek to connect to Springfields park system. Use areas of it for Jag parking. Keep it simple, until an opportunity arises for some development

Absolutely roadking!  get rid of the damned fence... let people fish from the pier or shoreline, walk and take pictures.  The public has been banned from this area for way too long...

Hemming Plaza is starting to bust at the seams with homeless....... build them another pocket park on the waterfront for them to hand out in............maybe a little place where they can wash their clothes in the river

Great idea, tpot.  We could set up bathroom/ shower trailers there and make it the day center the city so desperately needs. At the very least, the city would finally get some value out of the money they gave some rich folk by helping some poor folk.

Actually, Roadking said it best...this space needs to be used rather than continue to be wasted as it is now.

I would say skip the shower trailers and just have them bath in the St Johns River........think of it as the Ganges of North Florida.............

Obviously truly viable opportunities Downtown have been disguised.

One sacred catastrophe after another.Now,as if a gift,the Open Space concept emerges.

This will put us on the map!

I say donate the land to the Seminole tribe and let them build a Hard Rock casino there.

Donate all of the land to MetroJax and I'll bet, I'll lay money on it, that "MetroJax" would know what to do with it! Any hedgers out there?

The land is just sitting doing nothing; prime piece of real estate with unlimited potential.  What a shame.

"HU"

 :D  You can bet there would be no parking meters... and there would be integrated public transit from one end of Shipyards to the other...

I think extending the Riverwalk is a great idea. Turn it into a "passive park" until the economy improves, or until people are actually clamoring to move downtown. No sense in leaving it fenced off (which is what I bet will happen, given this is Jacksonville).

I absolutely do not see highrise buildings going up anytime soon. They can't even fill the ones that are already there (to say nothing of the skeletal high rise right next to the Shipyards).

Each time I look at photos like this, it strikes me that condo buildings are being built with a fantastic view of the jail. Talk about a selling point. I could buy one and rent it out to some of my relatives.

Not a fan of the park idea either.  This is a perfect place for our new convention center.

Yeah, I know the economy's bad, but it won't be bad forever.  And since it will take forever to build something like a convention center there, we may as well start on it now.  By the time it's done we should be in a better economic state.

It is a horrible place for a convention center... Might as well leave it at the Prime O.

Quote from: BridgeTroll on August 27, 2010, 01:40:45 PM
It is a horrible place for a convention center... Might as well leave it at the Prime O.

Agreed, still no hotels no restaurants... the only thing going for them down there are the Bay St bars, haha. Not to change subject but no matter where the convention center is placed it needs to be around other things to do. At first I was against the park idea, however I now agree that a temporary green space is better than nothing, at least until somebody has a great idea and a great amount of cash.

Shipyards is not big enough for a Convention Center..........old Court House and Annex combined is! Ship Yards need to be developed for the public use  or a combination of public/private enterprise! I would like to point out that they don't make anymore water front property so we need to use it with a long range point of view!

The Hart Bridge viaducts kills any possibility of that area ever really being that vibrant, so I say they should maximize private development whether residential or commercial while maintaining public accessibility to the river/riverwalk.  Also, I wish they'd build some sort of office building on the parking lot fronting Bay in front of the jail to completely block its view.

For now, I say mow the grass, remove any hazards, extend the riverwalk with a clay or gravel path, and improve the area around the creek.

What would be wrong with making it a passive green space?  A simple grass lot with a few trashcans and a completed riverwalk would be done on the cheap and would allow the property to at least be used until it can be developed.  One perk would be to include the original peir in the reverwalk portion making it available for fishing or relaxing.  Don't need structures or other maintenance intensive components.  Just grass seed, a dirt lot for some parking, and an expanded riverwalk/peir (which is going to be done anyways).  I'm sure some money could be pulled from the Metro Park plans....

Doesn't Jax have like an 'Arbor Alliance' or something??  Could they plant a couple trees along the riverwalk so it's not a total desert?  Nothing huge, just something pleasant during the interim.  I say a few benches, a few trashcans, a couple trees, and a clean grassy area would be great.

Quote from: Captain Zissou on August 27, 2010, 02:15:17 PM
The Hart Bridge viaducts kills any possibility of that area ever really being that vibrant

No,I respectfully disagree.
I have spent many hours next door to the property during boat show events and other format and have pondered the property.
It beckons as Urban Open Space.

I like those last two ideas.

I went to the last Jags game and parked at the courthouse to benefit from the free parking there. I walked along the river up to Berkman Plaza II where the riverwalk ends. Then by the beautiful jailhouse to my left and a 6' chain link fence to my right. If not for the lovely smell of roasting coffee beans, it would have felt like a death march.

If the city owns the shipyard properties, then why do the people of Jacksonville not have access to those spaces?

It doesn't require a fortune spent to make those piers an enjoyable space.  

Take down the fences.

Mow the grass.

Catch a fish. :)

Park in the shade under the viaduct............

I must say that I did appreciate the viaduct for that particular walk. The rain was relentless.

The question is who do we email/mail/call about this getting underway and how many of us will it take to get any sort of ball moving on this possible passive green space?

Quote from: vicupstate on August 27, 2010, 06:25:26 AM
The current economy will not support hotels, restaurants and high-rises of any kind.

I agree with creating temporary green space including extending the Riverwalk through the entire site to Metro Park.  A continuous Riverwalk from the Hart Bridge to Five Points would be a big draw for recreational joggers and marathons.   

No no temp stuff, and no stupid park. Jeez Jax! If they cant make a power move, leave it alone. No more small fry decisions for Northbank....but that stuff out in the burbs.

Quote from: Coolyfett on August 27, 2010, 04:42:39 PM

Quote from: vicupstate on August 27, 2010, 06:25:26 AM
The current economy will not support hotels, restaurants and high-rises of any kind.

I agree with creating temporary green space including extending the Riverwalk through the entire site to Metro Park.  A continuous Riverwalk from the Hart Bridge to Five Points would be a big draw for recreational joggers and marathons.   

No no temp stuff, and no stupid park. Jeez Jax! If they cant make a power move, leave it alone. No more small fry decisions for Northbank....but that stuff out in the burbs.

Coolyfett, Question-Yes or no, usable greenspace nice urban park or present blight?

Quote from: Coolyfett on August 27, 2010, 04:42:39 PM

Quote from: vicupstate on August 27, 2010, 06:25:26 AM
The current economy will not support hotels, restaurants and high-rises of any kind.

I agree with creating temporary green space including extending the Riverwalk through the entire site to Metro Park.  A continuous Riverwalk from the Hart Bridge to Five Points would be a big draw for recreational joggers and marathons.   

No no temp stuff, and no stupid park. Jeez Jax! If they cant make a power move, leave it alone. No more small fry decisions for Northbank....but that stuff out in the burbs.

What Columbus is doing is a power move and a strong one at that.  That project is a redevelopment project that will be centered around an urban park.  Regardless of market conditions, they've moved forward on constructing that central permanent park.  However, they have left parcels for private development without specifying what the private development will be.  As time goes on, the free market may decide what the highest and best uses for the adjacent parcels will be.  This flexibility leaves room for the mix of uses you mention and more while allowing the public to benefit from the site short and long term.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/974611805_do7Ba-M.jpg)
Left: permanent public space at center and future mixed use development sites as temp greenspace surrounding the park.  Right: permanent urban park with a mix of urban uses surrounding it.

My first thought was to turn it into a cruise terminal Yes, yes, I know, between the Dames Point (160ft), the Mathews (152ft) and the Hart (141ft), that makes it all but impossible.

A downtown 'magnet'. Connect it to the airport with an above ground transit recirculator (use the old ROW north of Kraft) which could also provide transit for the sports complex. Parking for the terminal could also be purposed for special events.

It's not possible but its nice to think about it.

Personally, I don't know of anyone who would want to live in a high rise with a 24x7x365 coffee grinder running next door. Coffee aroma is fine for a week or two, but if the wind blows from the north, you could forget about any relaxation on the balcony as you would be overcome by a breeze of bitterness.

I was just up in Kansas City a couple of weeks ago.  In the middle of their successful loft district, there's a huge Folgers Coffee plant.  Unfortunately, for them their coffee plant is closing.

QuoteKC Folgers plant to close
Folgers Coffee Co. will close its longtime downtown plant by 2012, eliminating about 180 jobs.

The company announced its plans to the workforce this morning, indicating that a layoff of about 50 employees will occur in the first half of next year. The plant will idle for good in the summer of 2012.

Folgers, owned by J.M. Smucker Co., is consolidating its coffee operations in Kansas City and Sherman, Texas, to its New Orleans plant, said Maribeth Badertscher, a Smucker spokeswoman.

"This was a difficult decision that had to be made to meet the long-term needs of our consumers and customers," she said. "It is no reflection on the dedication and commitment shown by the Kansas City workforce."

Folgers has about 150 hourly employees at the plant. A union official confirmed the company's announcement and said a meeting to provide more details to the workforce will be held Thursday evening.

The Folgers plant has been staple of downtown Kansas City since 1908. The city blocks near the plant often are filled with the aroma of coffee production.

The plant celebrated its 100th anniversary in June 2008. At the time, company and city officials were lauding the revival of the plant, whose employment had more than doubled from the early 2000s.

Folgers at that time also was in the process of being sold to Smucker from Procter & Gamble Co.

http://economy.kansascity.com/?q=node/6571

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Kansas-City-August-2010/P1380275/968129537_zsK3k-M.jpg)
Folgers Coffee on right.  Industrial loft conversions on left.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Learning-From/Kansas-City-August-2010/P1380277/968129600_ULt7a-M.jpg)
The Coffee Lofts are directly across the street from the coffee roasting plant.

I am in agreement with all those in favor of making this a public park space until private investors come along one by one.  Extending the Riverwalk all the way to Metro Park and the Stadium would be a huge plus.  In my opinion, we should go back to the drawing board with Metro Park and come up with a combined vision for the Shipyards, Kids Kampus, Metro Park, Stadium, etc.  How can we best utilize all of this public riverfront property to not only create beautiful parks/open spaces but also provide a blueprint for private development. 

We have discussed in other threads knocking down the raised expressway as well.  How would development change if this occurred?  What about sodding the parking lots around the stadium?  What businesses could be integrated into this area to create a more vibrant district that would in turn support our top notch entertainment facilities?  Right now this whole area is dead space and the city is broke.  However with a smart plan for infrastructure improvements, the city could reinvigorate interest in the area.  What if E Adams Street was extended all the way to Everbank Field and the sides were opened up to private investors?  What if a new street was built that went from the south end of the stadium all the way to the river?  With better design, connectivity and the use of strategically placed public spaces/parks, this area would require a second look by investors and show that the city is serious about making our entertainment district a real thing!  Let's stop segmenting everything and start connecting our assets so that we can then stop feeling sorry for ourselves. 

Great points, Brainstormer.  The future of the entire area should be reevaluated as one instead of separate parts.

What would San Francisco do with a public ShipYards?? (Almost makes one wish for a formal review by the world's favorite city.....)

"The Presidio has immense history as a military installation.Since becoming a park in the 1990's,The Presidio is evolving into a natural,cultural and commercial hub."

  sanfrancisco.about.com/od/environmentnature/p/presidio.htm

  F  A   S    T   FWD:
  Hopefully current events will not prove to be the twilight zone of past events -

I vividly recall a promotional boat tour my company hosted for Tri-Legacy/ShipYards.We had multiple 'customers' and Tri Leg BigWigs aboard a 54 foot Hatteras motor Yacht.(The Tri Leg guy involved with Cecil Field/Brannon Chaffee gave me wide berth....)
We toured the ShipYards river site and made a stop at Epping.I noted the 'buyers'  were primarily from the Jax beaches,the deposit amounts minimal...............and no one intended to actually live at the ShipYards.At first it was assumed the 'buyers' were attracted to the ShipYards as a second home,it soon became apparent (this at an era before the term "Flip" ...and Flop! was assumed to be real estate oriented) that the intent was to resale.

The last thing Jacksonville needs is ANOTHER park!

How about an amphitheater? It's cheap to do, can be used for concerts and the Jazz fest, and can be taken down when the economy improves. Our river would make a great backdrop!

(http://www.cityofnewalbany.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/riverfront-amphitheater.jpg)

 JCCI did a study called River Dance "Putting the River  in River City" At the same time there was another report that was done for Downtown Vision by Chan Krieger and Associates with the focus being on our Downtown and the River. Public Space was shown as a success in other communities.

Sept. 15 and 16 at the Prime Osborn Center will be the River Summit. There are speakers and topics. There will be discussion on a future river funding source for certain concerns. I think that we will see a  new tax and who will ultimately oversee its collection and implimentation. Will this be good or bad?

Ord.2010-604 is the legislation that paves the way for the city to regain control of the Shipyards/Landmar site. The OGC has said that the 680' Public Pier can be separate. For economic success I believe that the Pier should be separate and have its own zoning exceptions that will be outside of the JEDC oversite.

Remember that its just dumb luck that we are even getting this site back. Mayor Peyton is not interested in having the 680' Promised Pier separate. That is why the Pier should be an immediate focal point and a key city council and Mayoral campaign issue.

There does need to be more discussion on the 44 acres. But the Pier can happen now. If it doesn't then what a joke. 

Noone..........with the current administration supposedly looking at this Forum, and a few others, the idea may take hold yet! What ever is done, should have the pier as something seperate, but the overall area should have an integrated plan or vision! That area should stretch from the Ship Yards to the Stadium and arc through the downtown core.....IMHO! I don't see why that could not be something for not only the public, but private enterprise also! I agree with your view .....this should be a major campaign issue as it well is!

Quote from: coredumped on August 29, 2010, 01:25:46 AM
The last thing Jacksonville needs is ANOTHER park!

How about an amphitheater? It's cheap to do, can be used for concerts and the Jazz fest, and can be taken down when the economy improves. Our river would make a great backdrop!

well, we already have one of those too...its called Metro. Park

true tufsu................I need to point out that it needs work also.......don't it? All of our parks need sprucing up to say the least!

Quote from: coredumped on August 29, 2010, 01:25:46 AM
The last thing Jacksonville needs is ANOTHER park!

Disagree.  Having a major park/public space on the river is a decision for the ages.  Pushing high rise development on this land just to pull out of a recurring economic cycle is short sighted.  I have posted elsewhere on MJ the benefits of this land being a park.

They couldn't get high rise development on this site during the peak years of the boom.  That dream is DOA, imo.  I still believe Brainstormer has made one of the strongest points in this thread and in the Shipyards discussion.  We need to take a look at the entire district and how individual parts (like the Shipyards, stadium's surface lots and Metro Park) can play a coordinated role in the development of a vibrant district.

Quote from: brainstormer on August 28, 2010, 10:20:44 AM
I am in agreement with all those in favor of making this a public park space until private investors come along one by one.  Extending the Riverwalk all the way to Metro Park and the Stadium would be a huge plus.  In my opinion, we should go back to the drawing board with Metro Park and come up with a combined vision for the Shipyards, Kids Kampus, Metro Park, Stadium, etc.  How can we best utilize all of this public riverfront property to not only create beautiful parks/open spaces but also provide a blueprint for private development.  

We have discussed in other threads knocking down the raised expressway as well.  How would development change if this occurred?  What about sodding the parking lots around the stadium?  What businesses could be integrated into this area to create a more vibrant district that would in turn support our top notch entertainment facilities?  Right now this whole area is dead space and the city is broke.  However with a smart plan for infrastructure improvements, the city could reinvigorate interest in the area.  What if E Adams Street was extended all the way to Everbank Field and the sides were opened up to private investors?  What if a new street was built that went from the south end of the stadium all the way to the river?  With better design, connectivity and the use of strategically placed public spaces/parks, this area would require a second look by investors and show that the city is serious about making our entertainment district a real thing!  Let's stop segmenting everything and start connecting our assets so that we can then stop feeling sorry for ourselves.  

lake...........I have to agree! Connectivity is paramount......and I don't mean transportation only! The sum of all of the parts makes alot of sense and would probably produce the most bang for anyones bucks! But it would take some kind of vision and a plan and I am not sure just who could produce something that covers all of those aspects!

Anyone want to go kayaking Downtown?

sign me up

The site's current use:


(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9932/insettagroup013.jpg)


... A fenced in parking lot for Jags games.  It's time to take these fences down.

Does anyone know or have access to the cost estimates the City/TriLegacy had on expanding the riverwalk on this site?  The bulkhead work is complete, so it would just be railing, pavers, lighting, etc

I imagine you could pay for it with the rest of the Metropolitan Park money.  Did you get a chance to talk to fishermen about local industry trends?

Yes and no.  Im about to grab a bite to eat... I'll try to post some thoughts on that tonight or possibly after work tomorrow.

I don't think what's remaining of the Metro Park money should be spent until as you say, a comprehensive plan is set into place that integrates a vision for all of the city's assets in this district.

Quote from: stjr on August 29, 2010, 02:44:49 PM

Quote from: coredumped on August 29, 2010, 01:25:46 AM
The last thing Jacksonville needs is ANOTHER park!

Disagree.  Having a major park/public space on the river is a decision for the ages.  Pushing high rise development on this land just to pull out of a recurring economic cycle is short sighted.  I have posted elsewhere on MJ the benefits of this land being a park.

For now, we could create a massive Skyway terminal on the property... (just kidding)

But I am wonder why the attention to THE pier when it should be THE PIERS! These are all part of our history and everyone of them could be used for public benefit.


OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: fieldafm on August 29, 2010, 06:45:33 PM
The site's current use:


(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9932/insettagroup013.jpg)


... A fenced in parking lot for Jags games.  It's time to take these fences down.

Does anyone know or have access to the cost estimates the City/TriLegacy had on expanding the riverwalk on this site?  The bulkhead work is complete, so it would just be railing, pavers, lighting, etc

I assure you they spent more on those portable lights/generators than they received in parking fees. Nevermind what the man hours, fuel, and  city vehicles costed.

Those lots were EMPTY for the preseason home opener.

I would bet no more than twenty vehicles parked there.

OH SHIT! More of little Johnny's "FLEX SPACE"...


OCKLAWAHA

OCK,

The focus on the Pier as opposed to the Piers is given the previous history. Shipyards/Landmar the plan was a 150 slip private marina. Not one slip for the Public. And that was using all the piers except the 680' one. The last plan for the 680' pier was a piece of ART. A huge sailing mast.

Focus on the one Pier right now. The 680' pier can immediately create more ACTIVE access than PASSIVE access. Put in the floating dock that was there during Super Bowl XXXIX.  Use retrofitted containers that will showcase Jacksonville as a port city.

I love the discussion about incorporating a single rail line that could be used to enhance the Entertainment district and added 44 acres. Ock you bring great ideas about how this can be done. Ock have you ever contacted Michael Ward with CSX?

 

Mini amusement park! Ferris Wheel, rollcoaster, games, shopping, eating, housing. C'mon easy stuff.

Quote from: Rocshaboc on September 01, 2010, 12:08:19 PM
Mini amusement park! Ferris Wheel, rollcoaster, games, shopping, eating, housing. C'mon easy stuff.

Man, that would be so cool. Like a real boardwalk atmosphere. Imagine that against the city skyline.

They'd never do it. But it would be awesome.

Quote from: Bativac on September 02, 2010, 10:36:10 AM

Quote from: Rocshaboc on September 01, 2010, 12:08:19 PM
Mini amusement park! Ferris Wheel, rollcoaster, games, shopping, eating, housing. C'mon easy stuff.

Man, that would be so cool. Like a real boardwalk atmosphere. Imagine that against the city skyline.

They'd never do it. But it would be awesome.

That is essentially what Ben Carter's thoughts were on the site.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530697&searchtext=bankruptcy (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530697&searchtext=bankruptcy)

That's what I'm saying. We need more attractions outside our natural resources. Something like this will turn DT into something it hasn't been in a loooong time...a place to go. Ben Carter is right. He built the TownCenter first, then the housing came. Everything else has failed, why not? I need to dirt turned on this idea before I'm 40.

Well Johnny has pushed to get Metropolitan Park to be upgraded (at a cost of  $ 3.1 Million Dollars) and the River Walk is next up at $15 Million (Wood to be replaced with concrete) If we can come up with a total of $18 Million Dollars plus, we are in the hole $58 Million Dollars by the way, this makes me wonder just where Johnny is getting this money from? Which book is he using..........one, two or three? Maybe this is the one with accurate figures in or maybe he has talked to Herb about a low interest loan for the City. Any takers on who supplies the concrete for the River Walk upgrade?

Metro Park costs far more than $3.1 million.

Rocshaboc, the problem with your plan is it's inability to connect with the rest of downtown.  Even if the amusement park was wildly successful, if it didn't connect with the surrounding areas, it would do nothing for downtown as a whole. It would be an island of activity in a sea of emptiness.  This is why any single use project will fail on the Shipyards site.  What needs to go in is a collection of properties that feed into each other and the rest of downtown.

Capt Zissou........I won't disagree with that! That figure is courtesy of the TU this mornings edition! I would say it will be more that when finally totaled up.....more likely $5 Million by the time everything Johnny wants is either removed and replaced and the additional landscaping is installed plus irrigation to keep all plants alive! I just don't understand where we keep coming up with more money to do things when we are short dollar wise next budget cycle!

Quote from: CS Foltz on September 02, 2010, 02:45:36 PM
Well Johnny has pushed to get Metropolitan Park to be upgraded (at a cost of  $ 3.1 Million Dollars) and the River Walk is next up at $15 Million (Wood to be replaced with concrete) If we can come up with a total of $18 Million Dollars plus, we are in the hole $58 Million Dollars by the way, this makes me wonder just where Johnny is getting this money from?

Pretty simple.  He's using money allocated for downtown initiatives.  

The Mayor had set aside around $7 million for Metro Park, which didn't include the ampitheater area....but Cuncil shifted $3+ million over to Toney Sleiman for Landing parking...which is why there is only $3.1 million left

Can someone tell me what idea or project that will be beneficiary for an ENTIRE downtown? A convention center? Maybe I'm missing the BIG picture in this behind-the-time city. So people coming downtown to a amusement park won't say "Hmm, lets walk down to the Landing." Or "Lets take my boat down to the RAM." Or 'Let's take the trolley down to The Prime Osborne." Or "Let's take the SkyWay from the Hilton Garden Inn before Northbank walking down to the AMUSEMENT PARK" Or or after dinner at the elegant Marble Bank Steakhouse, let's go take a ride Ferris wheel. That sea of emptiness. I guess I'm missing something

there is no one single bullet that can benefit ALL of downtown...with the possible exception of a better circulation (i.e, transit) system

Quote from: tufsu1 on September 02, 2010, 04:06:05 PM
The Mayor had set aside around $7 million for Metro Park, which didn't include the ampitheater area....but Cuncil shifted $3+ million over to Toney Sleiman for Landing parking...which is why there is only $3.1 million left

Unfortunate, but the right thing to do as The Landing has been given the parking shaft from COJ for several years.

It's a good thing that money was taken and they need to delay spending the rest.  With the city becoming the owner of the Shipyards, the future of the entire Sports District should be evaluated in unison instead of isolated individual parcels.

Quote from: spuwho on September 02, 2010, 06:17:15 PM

Quote from: tufsu1 on September 02, 2010, 04:06:05 PM
The Mayor had set aside around $7 million for Metro Park, which didn't include the ampitheater area....but Cuncil shifted $3+ million over to Toney Sleiman for Landing parking...which is why there is only $3.1 million left

Unfortunate, but the right thing to do as The Landing has been given the parking shaft from COJ for several years.

I sure hope Sleiman does more with it than the City would have....but, sad as this is to say, I'm not sure he will

City would have wasted it, like they usually do. Which is sad.

Quote from: Keith-N-Jax on September 03, 2010, 07:23:10 AM
City would have wasted it, like they usually do. Which is sad.

and just what do you think Sleiman will do with it?

Let's wait and find out. We already know the cities track record on spending money dont we?

we already know sleiman's, too.  he's really no better than the city.

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-09-03/story/jacksonville-eyes-park-public-use-after-two-failed-shipyards (http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2010-09-03/story/jacksonville-eyes-park-public-use-after-two-failed-shipyards)

QuoteJacksonville eyes park, public use after two failed Shipyards developments

By Matt Galnor
Within a week or so, the ink will quietly meet paper on what city officials say could be one of Jacksonville's signature real estate transactions.

Now that the City Council has cleared the way legally, the city is likely to close any day now on the former Shipyards property, more than 40 acres of downtown land along the St. Johns River.

But don't look for any elaborate renderings or the city to hook up with a new developer anytime soon.

The failures of two grand development plans, compounded by a crippled real estate market and strapped city budget, have the city now planning on only the minimal improvements needed to open the land for public use.

"It's really about making it green and friendly," Mayor John Peyton said. "We obviously don't have the dollars to make a significant investment."

And despite the lack of development, investments have been made on the property.

In all, about $34 million in public improvements have been finished on the property - $14 million by original developer TriLegacy and about $20 million by LandMar, which acquired the property in 2005 and whose parent company filed for bankruptcy protection last year.

Nearly the entire bulkhead along the river has been replaced, and only pavers are needed to finish off the Northbank Riverwalk from just east of the half-built Berkman Plaza 2 to the Hogan's Creek bridge.

Ron Barton, executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, estimates it would take about $4 million or $5 million to smooth out the land and light the park so it's safe at night.

Peyton says that's money the city doesn't have right now. But throwing down some grass seed and ripping down the chain-link fence is doable, according to the mayor.

The property is a mish-mash of concrete and grass, bare patches and weeds. It is, after all, an old shipyard.

It's coming back into the city's hands now after Landmar's parent company, Charlotte-based Crescent Resources, emerged from bankruptcy in June.

The main components in LandMar's public portion of the development were:

- Extending the Northbank Riverwalk from Berkman Plaza east to Metropolitan Park.

- Preserving the longest of the three piers as a public fishing pier.

- Finishing the footbridge over Hogan's Creek and dredging the creek.
The pier and the footbridge haven't been started, but the city isn't starting from scratch on the property, Barton said.

If the Riverwalk can be finished - there's a less than 10-foot connection needed behind Berkman 2 - it would run all the way from the Riverside Arts Market to Metropolitan Park, a more than three-mile stretch.
The city's focus should be on the core of downtown, such as the improvements under way on Laura Street, Barton said. The market isn't turning anytime soon, and making the property a park is a way to land-bank the riverfront tract, Barton said.

The mix of residential, shopping and a marina are now among the boom-era plans that have since fizzled. But it could be much worse than a riverfront park, Barton said.

"I'm sorry the development didn't happen," he said, "but we're not in a bad place on this."

Jacksonville can't even properly maintain the current parks in place.........this will just be a larger version of the other park the city built across from the library on Main St........

Quote from: tpot on September 04, 2010, 08:55:47 AM
Jacksonville can't even properly maintain the current parks in place.........this will just be a larger version of the other park the city built across from the library on Main St........

This one will be front & center stage.

I think opening the space and adding grass is the right approach. Get some people fishing out there. Let some dogs run. Some streaking, on occasion.

Here's a thought. Stop wasting money trying to convert it to $10.00 parking. Make it $5 and eliminate half of the lighting. I can park free if I walk on extra block. If the games start selling out, the $10 parking will sell. Not before.

buckethead........from the article in the TU, the other day edition, most of the mayoral candidates seem to favor using that property as a park! As John Boy said " some grass seed and fence removal seems in order"! I concur! Since the City is broke, even though we have come up with $3.1 Million for the Park and $15 Million for the River Walk, anything is better than nothing at all!

My hope is this land is used as a provisional park and when the citizens and leaders in the community see what a wonderful asset that can be to downtown, it is determined to make it a permanent park.  That doesn't preclude some economic activities such as arts and crafts and souvenir kiosks, a bait and tackle shop on the pier, a restaurant or two, etc.  But, it should mostly be a park and public access.  By the way, the end of the piers should be a great spot for watching sunsets over the skyline and would make for some great postcard shots.

I have a vision for the Shipyards! Though my vision probably won't come true, I'd still like to post about what I would do if I owned the Shipyards and if I was a developer. My hope is to make it a park that somewhat resembles the Navy Pier in Chicago (google it). My vision would be to have a park with attractions such as a ferry wheel, a Merry-Go-Round, a few concession stands, seating, an outdoor concert green, and a playground or something of that sort. Then I would incorparate an urban modern TOD. I envision a parking garage, but one that doesnt look like a boring ugly concrete structure. I also envision a promanade with a market and some shops, such as a fish and produce market, antiques, and a few restaurants. Last but not least, have a dock where you go and park your boat and explore the park. I would call it The Downtown Shipyard. I happen to believe if this little park called The Downtown Shipyards existed DT would attract more people which means more development, which means a bustling thirving Urban Core! Call me crazy but I think this could work ;)

I have a vision too! Just give me $40MM, I'll spend $200k on a seawall and $30k on a fence and run off with the rest of the money and you'll never see me again! Oh crap...nevermind...I forgot they already did that. Shucks.

Quote from: fieldafm on September 02, 2010, 10:52:06 AM

Quote from: Bativac on September 02, 2010, 10:36:10 AM

Quote from: Rocshaboc on September 01, 2010, 12:08:19 PM
Mini amusement park! Ferris Wheel, rollcoaster, games, shopping, eating, housing. C'mon easy stuff.

Man, that would be so cool. Like a real boardwalk atmosphere. Imagine that against the city skyline.

They'd never do it. But it would be awesome.

That is essentially what Ben Carter's thoughts were on the site.
http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530697&searchtext=bankruptcy (http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=530697&searchtext=bankruptcy)

Wow I had a vision for the land and it happens to be like a mini amusement park with retail, restuarants, and a TOD. I hope this really goes through!

Quote from: ChriswUfGator on September 12, 2010, 08:45:51 PM
I have a vision too! Just give me $40MM, I'll spend $200k on a seawall and $30k on a fence and run off with the rest of the money and you'll never see me again! Oh crap...nevermind...I forgot they already did that. Shucks.

you would only have to spend $200k on a seawall because the last land owner spent millions building the bulkhead...and don't forget remediating the property!

QuoteHell toss in the USS JACKSONVILLE when she is retired in a few years and we'd have our own fleet for visitors.

For the uninitiated, Ock, let's let them know the USS Jax is a submarine.

PEARL HARBOR (June 2, 2010) The Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Jacksonville (SSN 699) departs Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam for a scheduled deployment to the western Pacific region. (U.S. Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Ronald Gutridge/Released)
http://outontheporch.org/2010/06/08/uss-jacksonville-deploys-to-western-pacific/
(http://ootp.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/uss-jacksonville-deploys-to-western-pacific_100602-n-3560g-002.png?w=600&h=399)

Quote

USS Jacksonville (SSN-699), a Los Angeles-class attack submarine, is the only ship of the United States Navy to be named for Jacksonville, Florida. The ship is nicknamed "The Bold One". The contract to build her was awarded to the Electric Boat Division of General Dynamics Corporation in Groton, Connecticut on 24 January 1972 and her keel was laid down on 21 February 1976. She was launched  on 18 November 1978 using the pontoon system designed for the launching of the Ohio Class Trident Submarines. The Jacksonville was sponsored by Mrs. Charles E. Bennett, and commissioned on 16 May 1981, with Captain Robert B. Wilkinson in command.

Jacksonville’s operations have included a variety of fleet exercises and deployments including two around-the-world cruises in 1982 and 1985, deployments to the western Atlantic Ocean in 1983, 1986, 1993 and 1994, and deployments to the Mediterranean Sea in 1987 and 1993. In 1988, Jacksonville participated in a shock trials test program for Los Angeles class submarines, which was followed by a three-year major modernization overhaul in Norfolk Naval Shipyard.

Jacksonville was involved in a collision with a Saudi container ship near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay in May 1996.

On 20 December 2004 a small fire broke out aboard Jacksonville while it was undergoing a refueling overhaul at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. The fire was immediately extinguished and the reactor was never in danger, though a shipyard firefighter and a sailor were treated at the scene for smoke inhalation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Jacksonville_%28SSN-699%29

QuoteWow I had a vision for the land and it happens to be like a mini amusement park with retail, restuarants, and a TOD. I hope this really goes through!

It is interesting to note, Mr Carter advocates such a 'vision' yets wants nothing to do with it himself... you would think a developer of his stature would be more than willing to put his money on the line if it was such a great idea  ;)

Make it a park, museum, and residential development with shopping and other amenities and amusements available.  What I am saying is, tie up a retired Navy ship at the pier that will be there, in which the ship will be a museum, have a hotel along with residential high rises there, and have street level shopping within the hotel and/or residential towers, along with a parking garage (possibly within the residential and hotel tower), and of course have a large park that will contain a large grandstand for concerts and out of town venues, and just make it with a festival atmosphere not only for the people living nearby, but for all residents of Jacksonville. You could also have one super high rise in which the hotel is on the first say 20 floors, and the upper floors (next 40 or 50) would be residential (this might be much for Jax but hey, let's go whole hog).  That super highrise could be in the area of 700 feet tall or higher.

By the way, that Carrier in the above pic is the USS INDEPENDENCE (CV-62) which was commissioned in the 1950's and retired in the 1990's; it is not a World War II Aircraft Carrier.  It is a post World War II Carrier.

"HU"

Quote from: fieldafm on September 13, 2010, 07:52:09 PM

QuoteWow I had a vision for the land and it happens to be like a mini amusement park with retail, restuarants, and a TOD. I hope this really goes through!

It is interesting to note, Mr Carter advocates such a 'vision' yets wants nothing to do with it himself... you would think a developer of his stature would be more than willing to put his money on the line if it was such a great idea  ;)

Carter is no dummy.  Unless heavily subsidized by taxpayers, he would be flushing good money down the toilet.

Why could we not make I95, at the county line.....north and south, along with I10 a toll road? Virgina did it!  We could bond it out and poof......instant income! Johnny wants to balance the books since we are $58 Million in the hole, how much could we take in? Toll Booths could be put in cheaply and go from there! People keep saying that road taxes are keeping up with the upkeep.............well what about this? Money to do something with the Ship Yards!

QuoteCarter is no dummy.  Unless heavily subsidized by taxpayers, he would be flushing good money down the toilet.

Exactly!

I spent part of my day reading about the failed Renaissance Place TOD/Sports Complex Skyway extension.(would be a GREAT story for you folks to do)

LandMar wasn't the first developer to toy with massive residential development around this site.

Quote from: CS Foltz on September 13, 2010, 09:09:41 PM
Why could we not make I95, at the county line.....north and south, along with I10 a toll road? Virgina did it!

yes...the state did it...as did many others....but a County has noi jurisdiction over interestate facilities

I spent some time on my day off researching this site.  Certain possibilities are becoming more and more intriguing

http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-09-14/story/summit-prime-osborn-will-look-ecotourism-options (http://jacksonville.com/business/2010-09-14/story/summit-prime-osborn-will-look-ecotourism-options)

QuoteIn a state where tourism is often driven by the big resorts and bigger roller coasters, Wednesday's St. Johns River Summit at the Prime Osborn Convention Center will hear about a low-tech idea to draw tourists and tourist dollars: Trails for walking, cycling and paddling.

"The case I'm going to make," said Herb Hiller, a writer and longtime activist for a sustainable Florida, "is that trails have a role in economic development that has never been recognized in Florida. In the case of the St. Johns River basin, it was a hotbed of tourism 150 years ago, but died with the coming of trains and then automobiles.

"We have an almost blank slate to work from, but this time we can do it green."

So Hiller and landscape architect Steve Davis will lead a presentation today to the various decision makers from the 12 St. Johns River counties to combine their efforts to develop a system of land and water trails from Mayport to Sanford.

Florida is hardly just getting started on this. It has 1,700 miles of trails as part of the official multi-use trail network, with another 6,000 miles identified for future development. In 2008, Florida received American Trails' first Best Trails State Award for its system of greenways and trails.

Those trails had 4 million visitors last year and generated an economic impact of $95 million, said Jim Wood, assistant director of the state's Office of Greenways and Trails.

Unlike the more wilderness-oriented Appalachian Trail, many of these trails go through or near small towns that are capitalizing on trail usage, such as Inverness on the 46-mile Withlacoochee State Trail in the east-central part of the state.

Wood pointed to the Great Allegheny Passage, a 135-mile rail trail that runs from Pittsburgh into Maryland and connects with the C&O Towpath to complete a 320-mile trail all the way to Washington, D.C. An estimated 700,000 trips are taken on the Passage each year. A study found that the Passage generated more than $40 million in direct spending in 2008, up from $7.3 million in 2002. Businesses along the Great Allegheny Passage attributed one-fourth of their income to the trail, and almost two thirds saw an increase in business because of their proximity to the trail.

Amy Camp, program manager for Trail Town, which works on economic development along the Allegheny Passage, said that 46 businesses have opened and another 12 expanded in the three years in the small towns along the trail.

Some, like bike shops, are completely attributable to the trail, she said, while the restaurants and bed and breakfasts that have opened there get a large amount of the business from trail users.

In Florida, the Pinellas Trail is 34 miles through the cities and towns of Pinellas County.

Bob Ironsmith, director of economic development for Dunedin, said that town's downtown was blighted with 30 percent vacancy until the trail was built right through it. Now, the vacancy rate is less than five percent.

"It's added such a sense of vibrancy," Ironsmith said. "People come into downtown on it, visit the shops, get a bite to eat and go on their way. I can't imagine downtown without it. It's that important to us."

By building more of those trails, Hiller said, we encourage tourists who spend money and help Florida pay for the trails, which are then available to residents.

"Tourism in Florida is run by marketers," Hiller said. "It's all about heads in beds. But the people in charge of making tourism happen in Florida tend to think short term. But tourism can have a big impact in policy making.

"Tourists are people who are temporarily in Florida with money to spend. The question is how can we get them to assist in local policies, in our own recreation, health and fitness, alternate transportation, while at the same time supplying heads in beds?"

Several events are already in the works to highlight the state's trails:

n On Oct. 4, Visit Florida, the state's official tourism website, will launch a site dedicated to the state's trail system, including accommodations and restaurants along the way.

"If it gets a lot of hits," Hiller said, "we'll have powerful ammunition to ask for more money for trails."

n Hiller will write a guidebook and phone application that will highlight neighborhoods along the St. Johns River.

n Next spring, Bike Florida will host a 10-day pilot tour that will include Jacksonville to DeLand by train, by bicycle around the top of Lake Monroe to Sanford, two days by kayak to the river hamlet of Volusia, pontoon boat to Welaka, then bike again to Green Cove Springs, to Orange Park and back to Jacksonville.

This idea does have many many possibilities!

Here are a few images from earlier today.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1400963/1011634492_qtS5d-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1400967/1011634618_o3KzY-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1400968/1011634654_yoMnu-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1400970/1011634701_oh2SC-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1400972/1011634751_Dggvb-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1400976/1011634920_cAFfi-M.jpg)

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1410040/1011635094_wLr2v-M.jpg)

Here's a bonus shot. This was taken under the Times-Union building in McCoys Creek.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/McCoys-Creek-September-2010/P1400852/1011574928_LGPRo-M.jpg)

lake.....even the newer stuff is nothing to write home about!

Great pics Lake!  Do you have a high res version of the water-level pic of the 680' pier?

As can be seen from the 2nd pic, the bulkhead work along the shore was at the very least a very positive outcome from the failed Landmar experiment.  Run electrical, lay down pavers, erect streetlights, erect fencing and the riverwalk is done.  The bulkhead work was the most expensive part of the Riverwalk extension.

When I get back to my computer tomorrow I'll have to post the picture I have from the pier.

Did you happen to notice the existing floating dock on the pier 2nd closest to Metro Park?  Would make a great kayak launch.

Quote from: CS Foltz on September 17, 2010, 07:37:08 PM
lake.....even the newer stuff is nothing to write home about!

it is a bulkhead...what's wrong with it?

Quote from: fieldafm on September 17, 2010, 09:48:59 PM
Great pics Lake!  Do you have a high res version of the water-level pic of the 680' pier?

Here is a link to the photo gallery:

http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/13810804_ztaEL#1011634654_yoMnu

QuoteAs can be seen from the 2nd pic, the bulkhead work along the shore was at the very least a very positive outcome from the failed Landmar experiment.  Run electrical, lay down pavers, erect streetlights, erect fencing and the riverwalk is done.  The bulkhead work was the most expensive part of the Riverwalk extension.

Or just put down some donated concrete from Gate. That would be a nice going out gift from the mayor. ;)

QuoteDid you happen to notice the existing floating dock on the pier 2nd closest to Metro Park?  Would make a great kayak launch.

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1410041/1011635174_Gc7N5-M.jpg)

tufsu...................second picture which shows piers, the very first one left of center, between the beam and the top of the pier, above the high water mark, is showing a stress fracture running diagonally from the top and down and right. Those piers were more than likely steam driven into the ground at those points and that can happen. I have this thing about substandard work and if you look at the same one, in the middle of the water mark, it looks like fracture running around the thing parallel to the water.. Same line of outside piers, next one down moving right..........notice the tapered top? Only one that shows, all others on that outside line are the same in construction and alignment. Number 3 same line is tilted off vertical plumb, top biased towards shore and for no apparent reason. Notice the underside of the beam showing in the picture, six or seven holes showing and some sort of radial cracking taking place, either from a strike impact or lousy finishing! I just am not impressed with the work............to me classic case of "Low Bidder" work!

Hmmm looks like a great spot to hold boat week ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUjx4_X1qA

CS...LandMar didn't repair most of the piers...juyst the bulkhead itself

CS, that pier was built before the depression.  It requires some maintenance work, but is in pretty good shape overall.  Hell, that thing is in MUCH better shape than the Ortega River Bridge and that handles traffic and the load from the drawbridge daily.   

This is an example of a pier that requires major work(the former Ford plant):

(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Neighborhoods/St-Johns-River-September-2010/P1410093/1011657393_MAb93-M.jpg)

QuoteOr just put down some donated concrete from Gate. That would be a nice going out gift from the mayor.

There is some concrete work that is required as well.  Maybe you could make that suggestion, lol

Thanks for the pics Lake!

Are there other areas of collapsed bulkhead at the Ford Assembly site?
Also, did you actually venture under the Times Union building? 

The rest of the Ford bulkhead appears to be fine and yes, we went under the TU and up McCoys Creek to the Park Street viaduct.

What sort of boat were you on (particularly the McCoys segment of your jaunt)?
How far up McCoys could one go?

We were in a rowboat. However, you could probably get a San Antonio style gondola under the TU when conditions are right.  We took McCoys up to a downed tree near Park Street. If the downed trees were removed, one could make it to Stockton Street in North Riverside.

Where did you put in?
Amazing how calm, or not, river can be.
Certainly looked flat calm....I know tidal flow would be critical.

Gentlemen........I understand the issue's involved here  and if the original work, not the Landmark upgrade, dates back to pre-Depression days, it is in decent shape. I do agree with you lake, regarding the Ford situation, classic case of footer failure, not the tie backs. If the tie backs had failed wall would have tipped out due to pressure behind the bulkhead wall...........this is something that I do know about! Not sure about just what Landmark did and they way they did it, thats too new (fingers crossed along with toes!) I don't think that they used coffer dams for dry work, but probably did precast sections, along with some kind of tie back attatched after the fact, thats the cheapest way to do it, but I don't know and won't make an assumption just on a picture! Pier design and bulkhead design are two different animals with very specific issue's to deal with............but you allready know that don't you?

Quote from: CS Foltz on September 17, 2010, 07:37:08 PM
lake.....even the newer stuff is nothing to write home about!

When were the piers built? My guess would be WWII wartime emergency construction which would explain a lot.
Just a shame that nobody could think far enough ahead to have saved one of those old triangular buildings with the ship ways on top of them. I toured them once and they were built like the freaking castle in St. Augustine.

OCKLAWAHA 

Quote from: billy on September 19, 2010, 12:45:00 PM
Where did you put in?
Amazing how calm, or not, river can be.
Certainly looked flat calm....I know tidal flow would be critical.

The boat was put in at River City Brewing on the Southbank.  We basically hugged the river's north edge through downtown all the way up to the Ford Plant.

Great Pics Lake. It was a pleasure to share the day with you. We used a 13' gheenoe with a 6hp Johnson. We caught the high tide and the river couldn't be more calm.

I had some problems with my fuel line and fortunately it gave out after Exchange Island. We weren't able to finish the south edge of the river back to RCB.

Anybody wanting to go kayaking Downtown?

What to do with the Shipyards?

Today at 9:30 There is a ribbon cutting ceremony at Metropolitan Park Marina. The reason is the recognition of being a Clean Marina. Congratulations for that designation. Mayor Peyton, councilman Gaffney Dist.7 and Glorious Johnson are expected to be there. I plan on going especially after attending the recent River Summit and hope to ask councilman Gaffney about the 680' Promised Downtown Public Pier and if he intends to keep it separate when it comes back to the people of Jacksonville. Its in his district and if the legislation isn't immediately introduced then the issue should escalate to a citywide city council and Mayoral campaign issue. Council woman Johnson who is running for Mayor has said that she supports having the 680' Pier separate from the 44 acres that was Shipyards/Landmar.

Quote from: thelakelander on September 19, 2010, 03:55:02 PM

Quote from: billy on September 19, 2010, 12:45:00 PM
Where did you put in?
Amazing how calm, or not, river can be.
Certainly looked flat calm....I know tidal flow would be critical.

The boat was put in at River City Brewing on the Southbank.  We basically hugged the river's north edge through downtown all the way up to the Ford Plant.

I recall the trailer boat launch ramp at River City.Is it still open to the public/trailer boats?If not,is the ramp still there??
A perfect "Hand Launch" facility.Floating dock hand launch facility could be applied to the Pier too.

I run DT River & environs in a small aluminum Gruman "Guide Boat" with 6 HP four stroke outboard."MyYacht".
Kayak too.
I am in the area boat business. Yachts.Can't beat small vessel enjoyment.

Today at the ribbon cutting ceremony Mayor Peyton informed the crowd that the city should have clear title to the Shipyards/Landmar property in about two weeks. Ron Barton confirmed the news.

Had a chance to speak with councilman Gaffney and he agreed that the 680' will make for an interesting campaign issue if he chooses not to introduce legislation to keep the pier separate. I asked him if he was familiar with Metrojacksonville.com and he wasn't. So I'm sending him an email.
For the record the Pier is in councilman Gaffney's district and it would be wonderful if he takes the ball and runs with it to keep the Promised Downtown Public Pier separate from the other 44 acres that is Shipyards/Landmar.

Mayor Peyton in his remarks said that this improvement today will give us more control over the space.

Councilwoman Johnson wasn't there. I did see and spoke with Mike Mesiano he is the Duval representative for FIND Florida Inland Navigation District. He said he saw me speaking at the city council meeting and was surprised that I still didn't have a city council sponsor for a pocket pier two years later. I told him that I just attended the River Summit and the pocket pier issue is exploding outside of Duval county. He presented a check for $450,000 for the city match that went toward the improvements of the city marina.

Noone..........I hope he got a receipt for the $450K? The way John Boy has a habit of flinging money we don't have at things that interest him makes me wonder if we (The COJ) will actually see that money being used for what it is intended? As to Dr Johnny Gaffney, forget it...........he has had ample time to get up to speed and still has done nothing for his District! Springfield is in his district also and he has not been much help on much of anything .....from lights in alleys to historical home saving! Maybe you know of something he has done, but I don't!

QuoteFor the record the Pier is in councilman Gaffney's district and it would be wonderful if he takes the ball and runs with it to keep the Promised Downtown Public Pier separate from the other 44 acres that is Shipyards/Landmar

Agreed, and it would be nice if he responded to emails about this issue too  :)

Councilman Gaffney has had numerous opportunities to do something and hasn't done one thing in my opinion to this point.

Ultimately every city council member will have to vote on this issue. So if any candidate running for election in the spring elections doesn't have a position on the Promised Downtown Public Pier then I wouldn't vote for them.

The same goes for the Mayor's race.

Keep score.

check out http://www.brooklynbridgeparknyc.org/

Shipyards Park + Hogans Creek Greenway+ Northbank Riverwalk Extension

I am watching Noone! I am keeping score also and have yet to see or hear any candidate say much of anything!

Quote from: north miami on September 20, 2010, 08:52:35 AM
I recall the trailer boat launch ramp at River City.Is it still open to the public/trailer boats?If not,is the ramp still there??
A perfect "Hand Launch" facility.Floating dock hand launch facility could be applied to the Pier too.

I run DT River & environs in a small aluminum Gruman "Guide Boat" with 6 HP four stroke outboard."MyYacht".
Kayak too.
I am in the area boat business. Yachts.Can't beat small vessel enjoyment.

I'd love to see a paddle boat ramp developed unlike anything found in any city USA. Perhaps next to a boat ramp a similar sloped sandbox, perhaps even with a 2' wall around it to preserve the sand. Obviously the river end of the box slopes well below the 2' wall, while the upper end would give some protection to sand retention during flood stages.  Add in a nice boat wash rack with wood or rubberized rails and a good fairly high pressure hose. A gear bench and some shade and we'd have a killer facility for national paddle events.

OCKLAWAHA

In 4 1/2 hours there will be a presentation in the St. James building (City Hall) on designs for this site. Open to the Public.

I hope someone here will be or can attend and provide info. Most of us are at work.

Was this announced? Who did the design work? City funded?

Quote from: billy on November 17, 2010, 10:20:47 AM
Was this announced? Who did the design work? City funded?

well I saw an announceent late last week....it was pro bono work...a SCAD graduate architecture studio project

maybre we can get something posted?

I'm planning to stop by with the camera.

This area is prime! I hope whatever happens there is the right thing!

I saw it on TV news yesterday.  I think there may be multiple designs presented.  They said the Savanna school approached the city about it originally.

Parallel thread.
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,10360.0/topicseen.html (http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,10360.0/topicseen.html)

In 2 1/2 hours a "Vision for Jacksonville" will be announced to the people of Jacksonville.

How will the Shipyards/Landmar be part of that vision?

I'll let you know how it goes.  Bill Killingsworth is the main speaker.

Look forward to what you post up lake............Time to do something!

Don't get your hopes up folks, IN FACT --- "Stand by for a ram."

I was at the Charette for Metropolitan Park, and little Johnny came in to tell everyone what to draw on their plan sheets... I kid you not, it was incredible.

Little Johnny wants all of this land to be vacant "flex space."  He explained how everything had to go from the stage and PBS studios, to the buildings and toys at the kids place. "We need more parking and (since I'm too stupid to embrace expanding the Skyway to Everbank Field, or get behind a streetcar project) our citizens need more places to BBQ on the 11 or so games a year downtown, so lets level the place..." Of course like a bunch of damn lemmings that is what each group proceeded to draw, it was absolutely disgusting.

Johnny can now stand before us and claim, "This is what you wanted!"  So please nobody grab their chest and stagger backwards if that's what he proposes for the Shipyards as well.


OCKLAWAHA

Well the event covered the 3 different community Vision Plans....Urban Core, Arlington/Beaches, and Southeast....it is important to note that downtown was largely kept out of the Urban Core Vision Plan...this is because downtown is under the guidance of JEDC, not the Planning Department.

btw...the Met Park charrette that Ock describes was a volunteer event led by Jax Pride....it was not afgfiliated with the Vision Plans in any way.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on December 08, 2010, 11:03:02 AM
"Stand by for a ram."

I was at the Charette for Metropolitan Park, and little Johnny came in to tell everyone what to draw on their plan sheets... I kid you not, it was incredible.

Of course like a bunch of damn lemmings that is what each group proceeded to draw, it was absolutely disgusting.

Johnny can now stand before us and claim, "This is what you wanted!"

Such predetermined outcome is a common feature of the Design Charade process with many examples a matter of public record.
Examples such as the Clay County Brannon/Chaffee Sector Plan proceedings (Brian Wheeler/Genesis retained by Clay County) a half dozen seperate design charette tables produced near identical depictions,as if by magic.This was the formal breech berth of the Beltway.
Later,during Lake Asbury vision excercises (this time Prosser Hallock retained by Clay County-Brian & Co. on hand and amidst the public on behalf of a key private Beltway 'driver') predetermined and assumed outcome for the routing of the proposed Beltway through State Conservation lands did not initially go in the expected direction,for in this instance (Lake Asbury Sector Plan #1) a certain public participant grouping was not so manageable,the consternation of the public in the face of obvious manipulation a rare episode,throwing the process in to a real tizzy,meeting schedules altered,swerved to "the professionals" at Regional Planning Council.(Finally,LA Sector Plan # 1 deemed non authorized.LA # 2 hammered the same theme-the public prevailed at the State DCA level.)

By Growth Management rule public input is to be considered -but no obligation,there is leeway in arriving at consensus "vision".
There are elements of the process where accountability could be held,or pressed to a higher standard however there has been little formal traction on the matter.Lemmings trapped in the tyranny of Consensus.Or just plain chicken.
During high stakes orchestration such as Sector Plan workshops some citizens have refrained from involvement due to concerns over personal safety,employment.I know what it is like to have 'casual' police escort to and from meeting places-this is not for the faint of heart and it takes very little to instill a sense of futility in the hearts of the general public,keeping many absent and the employment of the concept of "INEVITABLE" cast over those that do participate thanks to hired Planner & Consultants trained in group dynamics, also a matter of public record.

Today going to the Board meeting of the St. Johns River Alliance in Palatka, Putnam county. The current chair is John Delaney. I'm hoping there is an opportunity for Public comment.

Mark Middlebrook will give a presentation of the River Summit.

Linda King a Board member may share an update on the SJRA license plate

The former chair was Sue Carlson, Brevard county and I'll always remember when the Old Fuller Warren Bridge was an opportunity for the people of Jacksonville. The entire Board of the St. Johns River Alliance was seriously considering sponsoring a resolution of support for the OFWB so that it could be saved and used.

At the time Brad Thoburn was the Duval county representative and told the Board thanks but no thanks. "we'll handle it in house." We all know what happened. An opportunity lost.

Here we go again. Although what is different is that we will have a new city council and mayor. This issue can escalate to the Governor after Jan. 4, 2011. Keep score.

Everyone needs to realize that the Alliance doesn't need to take a position on this issue at this meeting. But at a future Board meeting. You bet.

Also does any other county beside DUVAL have a 1 mile ban on transient river vendors?
 

Quote from: CS Foltz on December 08, 2010, 06:10:22 AM
Look forward to what you post up lake............Time to do something!

Went to the ULI event last week.  The meeting was a presentation about the recently completed COJ Vision Plans for the Urban Core, Southeast and Arlington/Beaches districts.  All have been covered on Metro Jacksonville and are available for public viewing on COJ's website:

Metro Jacksonville

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-feb-a-vision-for-arlington-and-the-beaches
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-urban-core-vision-plan-to-be-unveiled
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-feb-a-vision-for-jacksonvilles-southside

COJ Website

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning+and+Development/Community+Planning/Visioning.htm

Lisa Ransom from COJ and Bernard Zyscovich of Miami-based Zyscovich Architects (www.zyscovich.com) were the main speakers.  There was a brief Q & A session following the presentation that I found to be pretty interesting.  Just about everything Zyscovich said were points that had been made in these forums by several participants over the years.  They include:

1. The belief that an isolated convention center box will not do much for downtown.  Instead, if a convention center as a part of revitalization is the goal, it needs to be designed to basically force it's visitors to interact with its surroundings.  For example, if a convention center is constructed on the old courthouse site, it may need to open up to Bay Street so that guest must walk past the bars and restaurants to enter.

2. The belief that downtown commercial revitalization  and vibrancy will not be successful until we find a way to reconnect downtown with the surrounding urban neighborhoods.

3. The belief that Jacksonville is severely lacking in fixed mass transit and that fixed mass transit (this means rail people) is an affordable method to spur economic revitalization in downtown and the surrounding communities.

4. The belief that urban Jacksonville is an unique place because of its history and remaining historic building fabric.  He mentioned that in other cities, areas like Adams Street and the Springfield Warehouse District have become popular due to the unique atmosphere created by the history and architecture.  He believed more focus should go towards allowing creative uses within existing buildings instead of worrying about constructing new multimillion dollar mega infill developments.

All in all, good stuff.  Representatives from JTA, JEDC and DVI were in the room.  Mayoral candidate Rick Mullaney was also there taking lots of notes.  Let's hope that some of the information presented pricks the hearts of those in attendance in a manner that they actually attempt to do the things that were mentioned.

Quote from: thelakelander on December 14, 2010, 09:08:31 AM

Quote from: CS Foltz on December 08, 2010, 06:10:22 AM
Look forward to what you post up lake............Time to do something!

Went to the ULI event last week.  The meeting was a presentation about the recently completed COJ Vision Plans for the Urban Core, Southeast and Arlington/Beaches districts.  All have been covered on Metro Jacksonville and are available for public viewing on COJ's website:

Metro Jacksonville

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-feb-a-vision-for-arlington-and-the-beaches
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-jan-urban-core-vision-plan-to-be-unveiled
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-feb-a-vision-for-jacksonvilles-southside

COJ Website

http://www.coj.net/Departments/Planning+and+Development/Community+Planning/Visioning.htm

Lisa Ransom from COJ and Bernard Zyscovich of Miami-based Zyscovich Architects (www.zyscovich.com) were the main speakers.  There was a brief Q & A session following the presentation that I found to be pretty interesting.  Just about everything Zyscovich said were points that had been made in these forums by several participants over the years.  They include:

1. The belief that an isolated convention center box will not do much for downtown.  Instead, if a convention center as a part of revitalization is the goal, it needs to be designed to basically force it's visitors to interact with its surroundings.  For example, if a convention center is constructed on the old courthouse site, it may need to open up to Bay Street so that guest must walk past the bars and restaurants to enter.

2. The belief that downtown commercial revitalization  and vibrancy will not be successful until we find a way to reconnect downtown with the surrounding urban neighborhoods.

1. If the convention center is built at the old courthouse site then this is another reason to save and use the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier. (Bay Street Pier Park) (Downtown Jacksonville Tradeport Pier) USE THE RIVER!

2. Pocket parks- Pocket Piers. Utilizing waterfront Public access street ends that will create a new vibrancy for these historic districts in San Marco, St. Nicholas, Riverside, Avondale, Ortega, Bernard said that leadership from a council member or the new Mayor can change these old entrenched attitudes. This example was more directed at the residential gated communities with one road in and one out and then dumping into another big feeder road. He also mentioned Hogans Creek.

Quote from: 904Scars on August 27, 2010, 04:34:23 PM
The question is who do we email/mail/call about this getting underway and how many of us will it take to get any sort of ball moving on this possible passive green space?

^^^^
exactly.

Ask the candidates. We will have new leadership in 3 months. There is a JCCI study underway called Recession, Recovery, and Beyond. Does anyone have any idea of what is being considered?

It will take legislation. It hasn't happened in Dist. 4 or Dist. 7. 

Beautiful morning along the riverwalk.  Shipyards property was open today because of the Gator Bowl the day before(property is used as parking for football games).  At the potential Bay Street Pier Park, there was a family taking advantage of the public access to the St Johns River and were playing fetch with their dogs on the Bay Street Pier Park site.

If opening up a simple fence results in a randomly organic use of the property, think of the kind of riverfront activation this pocket pier park could produce with proper planning and facilities???????


(http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3115/picture386copys.jpg)



(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9853/picture385copy.jpg)

Field, Nice pics. In two days  special committee meetings on 2010-856 that could potentially ban transient water related vendors throughout Duval county. If Downtown is exempt then the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River needs to be exempt too.

Depending on who is elected in March. Bay St. Pier Park could happen immediately.

Whose going to make it happen? Because they are getting my vote.

In less than 4 hours a special meeting at city hall on a 1 mile ban of a transient vendor. Downtown is exempt. What is the boundry? I've tried to find out and have been unsuccessful. Is it 2003-627? Is it the Downtown Vision Boundry?

Regardless, Who will offer an amendment to exempt the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River?

Be concerned.
Keep score.

Check out what Philadelphia is doing with an old pier very similar to what we have:

http://planphilly.com/race-street-pier-gets-slice-river-life (http://planphilly.com/race-street-pier-gets-slice-river-life)

dougskiles, Great information. Just reinforces for the citizens of Florida why the Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be separate. If a mayoral or city council candidate doesn't support it I wouldn't vote for them.

The immediate creation of jobs on a generic level. It can happen.

Be concerned.
Keep score.

Our new slogan.

Lets get to Work- Just not in Jacksonville.

Quote from: Noone on August 29, 2010, 07:32:15 AM
JCCI did a study called River Dance "Putting the River  in River City" At the same time there was another report that was done for Downtown Vision by Chan Krieger and Associates with the focus being on our Downtown and the River. Public Space was shown as a success in other communities.

Sept. 15 and 16 at the Prime Osborn Center will be the River Summit. There are speakers and topics. There will be discussion on a future river funding source for certain concerns. I think that we will see a  new tax and who will ultimately oversee its collection and implimentation. Will this be good or bad?

Ord.2010-604 is the legislation that paves the way for the city to regain control of the Shipyards/Landmar site. The OGC has said that the 680' Public Pier can be separate. For economic success I believe that the Pier should be separate and have its own zoning exceptions that will be outside of the JEDC oversite.

Remember that its just dumb luck that we are even getting this site back. Mayor Peyton is not interested in having the 680' Promised Pier separate. That is why the Pier should be an immediate focal point and a key city council and Mayoral campaign issue.

There does need to be more discussion on the 44 acres. But the Pier can happen now. If it doesn't then what a joke. 

The pier needs to be outside of the DIA control.

Today our Mayor is making Maritime history on the St. Johns River our American Heritage River. Our Mayor has not supported keeping and using the Promised 680'Bay St. Pier Park. Who ruuning for office will not allow this to immediately become SHIPYARDS III. The Public Trust Doctrine.

The state of Florida as well as the country is watching.
Restore the PUBLIC TRUST.
Be very concerned and keep score.

Quote from: Noone on January 03, 2011, 02:55:08 AM
Field, Nice pics. In two days  special committee meetings on 2010-856 that could potentially ban transient water related vendors throughout Duval county. If Downtown is exempt then the Waterways of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River needs to be exempt too.

Depending on who is elected in March. Bay St. Pier Park could happen immediately.

Whose going to make it happen? Because they are getting my vote.

In 6 hours this community will be saying good bye to a Jacksonville icon. William Durden. I personally didn't know the man. But what little I have. It inspires me.

I did hear him speak when he did make an appearance during the recent Charter Revision Commission meetings that recently took place and one of the recommendations that came out of the meetings was the return of the Code of Ethics that was in our original Charter in 1968 and removed 4 years later in 1972.

Why am I putting this on this thread? I'm asking myself too. In my opinion the Public Trust in this community has been just totally destroyed. He was known as "The judge".

Shipyards I was a disaster. Shipyards II reduced the Public space from 16 acres to 8. Shipyards III total Govt. takeover of the Entertainment district.

Talk to anyone outside of Duval county and its as if there is a conspiracy to restrict the potential that could be an economic opportunity for everyone and not limitted for a select few.

For how little I know of this man. I want to say good bye and will think that in my heart this man would have welcomed everyone the opportunity to participate and try.

I'm voting for Hogan.

Noone, has Hogan promised to construct the pier? 

Quote from: thelakelander on March 18, 2011, 08:39:27 PM
Noone, has Hogan promised to construct the pier? 

No. I didn't ask. But he did say that after March 22 we will paddle Hogans Creek.   

Quote from: Noone on March 18, 2011, 11:53:22 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on March 18, 2011, 08:39:27 PM
Noone, has Hogan promised to construct the pier? 

No. I didn't ask. But he did say that after March 22 we will paddle Hogans Creek.   

Of course if there is a Tea Party rally that day he will have to cancel just like with the debates.

Noone - so Hogan is going to canoe up Hogan's Creek with you - if he doesn't cancel.  With his strong anti-tax anti-spending campaign platform, I seriously doubt he will spend any money on a "Shipyards Park" or even the Pier.  He is the one candidate who has said selling parkland is "on the table" to raise money - and prime riverfront land like the Shipyards must be at the top of his list.  Please re-evaluate your choice for Mayor.  I have my own preference, but I think ANY of the other candidates would serve your interest in the Shipyards Pier and Park than Mr. Hogan.

ETA - I am afraid Mr. Hogan will leave you up a creek without a paddle, or a public pier.

My guess is that Hogan will sell off the Shipyards to one of the "good ol' boys" for a fire sale price and we taxpayers will be the losers.  Someone like his number one backer, Tony Sleiman, who already has manhandled the City negotiators and politicos over the Landing.  You don't get rich off of real estate making bad deals for yourself.  Yet, the City, time after time, gets taken to the cleaners.  Hogan appears to be too "nice" to stand up to people like this, especially when they help put him in office.  I am concerned he will be putty in the hands of his special interests backers.  Noone, if Hogan gets in, I give you odds that your pier will be in the domain of Sleiman.  Better add him to your kayak list.

By now, I think everyone on this board knows I am a STRONG supporter of Audrey Moran.  I'm a registered Republican and probably as fiscally conservative as it gets.

But, John Nooney is an outstanding human being and true asset to Jacksonville.  He is at EVERY city council meeting and most Waterways meetings.  He does what he says he is going to do, and I am often in awe of his devotion to the issues he finds important.  Please remember that and be respectful to hime when you disagree with his choice for mayor.

I did not intend any disrespect to Noone (I did intend it to Hogan).  Just trying to point out a (to me) logical outcome if Hogan is elected Mayor.  The Public Pier that Noone so passionately (and properly - it is a great public asset) has been working for will be sold off - and as stjr points out, probably to Sleiman.

I apologize for any disrespect I have directed at Noone.

Quote from: fieldafm on March 19, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
By now, I think everyone on this board knows I am a STRONG supporter of Audrey Moran.  I'm a registered Republican and probably as fiscally conservative as it gets.

But, John Nooney is an outstanding human being and true asset to Jacksonville.  He is at EVERY city council meeting and most Waterways meetings.  He does what he says he is going to do, and I am often in awe of his devotion to the issues he finds important.  Please remember that and be respectful to hime when you disagree with his choice for mayor.

+1

I enjoyed seeing Noone at the dumpster today after several hours of clean up proudly wearing his Mike Hogan for Mayor tee-shirt.  I confess, I couldn't help but throw out a barb to him for supporting Hogan, but I hope John knows how much I respect him, his work for Jacksonville and his opinion.

Sorry guys that I didn't make it in time for the cleanup.  It looks like you had a great day.  We paddled from River Oaks Road in San Marco through downtown and into the creek.  The tide was coming in pretty strong so it made for pretty hard paddling (at least for an old man and a young boy).  The trip back was awesome!  We went under the railroad bridge just as three locomotives were passing above.  For all of the noise those things make on land, I was shocked at how quiet it was underneath.

Great to see everyone back at RAM.  We spend a lot of time looking for ways to improve Jacksonville and often get frustrated for the slow progress.  Today was a great reminder of how amazing our city is!  RAM was alive with energy and optimism for another wonderful spring and summer.

Everytime I read about prospective businesses moving to, or expanding in, Jacksonville, it seems as though a corporate representative visits Everbank Field.  What if the Shipyards property had been a beautiful and green park, exemplifying our fine quality of life for the past ten or fifteen years? 

Quote from: Jdog on March 19, 2011, 05:04:08 PM
Everytime I read about prospective businesses moving to, or expanding in, Jacksonville, it seems as though a corporate representative visits Everbank Field.  What if the Shipyards property had been a beautiful and green park, exemplifying our fine quality of life for the past ten or fifteen years? 

We agree.  I have posted on MJ numerous times in support of this and even started a thread in support of it.  The Shipyards would make a splendid signature green space for downtown Jax.  Now just imagine if the Shipyard park on the Northbank was mirrored by an equally great park on the Southbank at the JEA property.  What a boost for downtown and attracting economic development, great festivals and events, and more residents!

I concur stjr! One of many concepts proposed, but someone in the City government thinks that property would be a developers dream and more! I have not seen or heard from any of the Mayoral candidates regarding just what any of them have in mind! Something for all one could hope!

I've long wanted to see a park on the southbank JEA site.  One with soccer fields, baseball fields, a running track - all outdoor-recreation based.  Imagine the draw that would create for the area with all of the families coming on the weekends and evenings when the area is the most 'dead'.

Quote from: dougskiles on March 19, 2011, 06:18:49 PM
I've long wanted to see a park on the southbank JEA site.  One with soccer fields, baseball fields, a running track - all outdoor-recreation based.  Imagine the draw that would create for the area with all of the families coming on the weekends and evenings when the area is the most 'dead'.

Quote from: CS Foltz on March 19, 2011, 06:16:10 PM
I concur stjr! One of many concepts proposed, but someone in the City government thinks that property would be a developers dream and more! I have not seen or heard from any of the Mayoral candidates regarding just what any of them have in mind! Something for all one could hope!

If you want to revisit this discussion or keep the pump primed regarding these two "parks", please review the prior discussion and add your thoughts and support at this existing MJ thread: http://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,4434.0.html

Have allready had a discussion regarding that situation with Ms Michelle (at large 5) Do not believe we need to be selling our waterfront off for just plain dollars! Need a vision and a plan, not to mention some dollars to do it with!

Quote from: Noone on March 18, 2011, 11:53:22 PM

Quote from: thelakelander on March 18, 2011, 08:39:27 PM
Noone, has Hogan promised to construct the pier?  

No. I didn't ask. But he did say that after March 22 we will paddle Hogans Creek.  

I agree with stjr...Hogan will liekly sell the entire Shipyards property (including the pier)...along with many of the preservation lands acquired over the last decade

The most important thing with the Shipyards property is keeping the pier seperate from the rest of the property.  Once that is complete... the only way Bay Street Pier Park will become a reality(no matter who is in office) is through a public private partnership, IMO.  

That being said, there are many opportunities to obtain that funding.  But first, the pier parcel must be made seperate... and that costs the city nothing(I have offered a free survey to accomplish this).

QuoteThe trip back was awesome!  We went under the railroad bridge just as three locomotives were passing above.  For all of the noise those things make on land, I was shocked at how quiet it was underneath.

Great to see everyone back at RAM.  We spend a lot of time looking for ways to improve Jacksonville and often get frustrated for the slow progress.  Today was a great reminder of how amazing our city is!  RAM was alive with energy and optimism for another wonderful spring and summer.

Doug set out 5 minutes before I left Hogans.  I left in my car, parked in the YMCA and walked to RAM via the Riverwalk.  Doug and Jacob made it to RAM by kayak from Hogans before I did by car/short walk.

If that's not a metaphor for something, then I don't know what is.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't public money invested in the Shipyards property already for purposes of public park space?  If so, did the city ever receive any federal matching money?

   

^No.  I'm not sure the city ever applied for federal matching money.  Even if they decided to, they would need an actual plan first.

Quote from: fieldafm on March 19, 2011, 02:49:50 PM
By now, I think everyone on this board knows I am a STRONG supporter of Audrey Moran.  I'm a registered Republican and probably as fiscally conservative as it gets.

But, John Nooney is an outstanding human being and true asset to Jacksonville.  He is at EVERY city council meeting and most Waterways meetings.  He does what he says he is going to do, and I am often in awe of his devotion to the issues he finds important.  Please remember that and be respectful to hime when you disagree with his choice for mayor.

Field, Thanks for the kind words and it is truly reciprocated. Charles and everybody else it's a big decision coming up and just an update I spoke with Pearl and I've got my order of Chickin Nuts in and the last time I stopped by Roberts Eatery with Jill Dame's campaign sign hanging on his tent he asked me to remind her that when she wins that he can't wait to cook for her. His story is 2010-856 the transient vendor ban and wanting to participate.

What to do with the Shipyards and why I'm voting for Hogan. I'll go back 10 years along with everyone else in this city when our St. Johns River an American Heritage River was given that designation. I think about it every day and how special it is. I was there at the River summit and listened to Christopher Brown Chief of the National Designation Division who was the keynote speaker and told of a story about paddling on a river covering 50 miles and then camping  under a bridge. Well yesterday Doug Skiles and his son Jacob in my opinion just demonstrated that to our entire city by paddling from San Marco up to Hogans Creek then over to RAM and then back to San Marco. That is a River Celebration.  

I've got tremendous concerns and I don't think that we will be getting more access but less. I'm believing that there is more of a conpiracy to restrict economic opportunity in what is perceived as a well intended collaboration that does the opposite unless you have been the benificiary of our hard earned taxpayer dollars.

Case in point. 2010-675 the USS Adams. One finance amendment that allows for a potential taxpayer bailout.

1. The Jacksonville Civic Council Recommendation of a new Authority.

2. Another group that is excited about the Jacksonville Civic Council Recommendation of a new Authority.

3. A soon to be released JCCI study Recession, Recovery, and Beyond after the elections that who knows may also be excited about a new Authority.

So right now the USS Adams on the Southbank to move forward needs about $10,000,000 but if the current structure and implimentation of the new Authority remains that financial obligation of the 501-c goes away if they move to the Northbank and could then be obsorbed as a taxpayer obligation.

Another concern. FIND The Florida Inland Navigation District representing the East Coast of the state of Florida. Two years ago and counting I went to my first meeting. Susan Grandin was there with the Tust for Public Lands. I asked about a pocket pier for Duval county. The support was awesome. That first meeting I was told that you need a sponsor ( a city council member ) two years later and counting and don't have one.

Another side note. At the last two Jacksonville Waterways Commission meetings the FIND updates haven't been given. Does anybody care?

Another side note. In December I traveled to Palatka and became aware of a potential statewide designation of our St. Johns River our American Heritage River as a paddling trail. Good stuff. I asked the other counties about our pending legislation 2010-856 and a 1 mile ban of a transient vendor. How will that play in to future River Celebrations?

The bottom line is that the pier needs to be separate. 2010-604. Redman has dropped the ball on this. Gaffney has also dropped the ball on this. The Governor is aware of the issue and the other 66 counties will learn of this crushing opportunity to Public Access and economic opportunity. Its still a local issue.

No I don't know what Hogans plan is for Shipyards. I met the man once. But what has been outlined above is not connected with Hogan.
But I do know this. Its no longer hearing from a politician over the years and that common response. Nooney if there was just someone else besides yourself showing up then just maybe we can do something. And they are right.

Yesterday at the Hogans Creek cleanup it was special for so many reasons. It was truly a gathering of purpose. Each of you are unique and determined. Did I feel a little bit of the tension in the air as we were getting started and at the end. A little bit. Doug, you are an inspiration and what you did yesterday and to share it with your son just highlighted your passion how we need to use and open the river.

Field, what has been inspiring with you is your relentless persuit of Bay St. Pier Park. I'll read your posts and I'm like that is so true. You have the survey covered. There are companies that will immediately jump on board. And you can't leave out the Springfield residents.

What I'm trying to say is that its no longer one person. Regardless of who wins people are listening.

So who's next for Hogans Creek?

Circumnavigational tours of our Downtown in the height of River traffic and going against the current contact the Skiles team.    

QuoteBut I do know this. Its no longer hearing from a politician over the years and that common response. Nooney if there was just someone else besides yourself showing up then just maybe we can do something. And they are right.

This is one of the most important things I've learned from Noone.  To get things done, you have to get people on board that want to let their voices be heard.

QuoteThere are companies that will immediately jump on board. And you can't leave out the Springfield residents.

The most exciting thing about the Shipyards site is that I receive very positive feedback from the organizations I talk to about the Bay Street Pier Park concept.  I very much believe this will be one of the biggest public private partnership success stories in our city's recent history.

QuoteRegardless of who wins people are listening.

While Noone and I are voting for differnet mayoral candidates, we are both very much on board with this statement.  Regardless of who is in office, our voices are going to be heard.

A significant number of members of my family are voting a different way than I am Tuesday(believe me, I tried all day yesterday to change some of their minds, particularly some of the younger generation)... but that doesn't mean I think any less of them.

QuoteInsert Quote
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't public money invested in the Shipyards property already for purposes of public park space?  If so, did the city ever receive any federal matching money?

Well, in a roundabout way yes.  The city gave the developer money.  The developer spent most of that money on bulkhead work designed to accomodate a future Riverwalk extension.  The developer's plans included a promised 680' public pier.  As a matter of fact, one of the reason's often cited by city leaders at the time to not push harder on making the old Fuller Warren into a public pier is that the Landmar-city financed development at the Shipyards would include this promised 680' public pier.

Currently, Lake is right in that the city has no formal plans in place for the property.  That is why it is CRUCIAL to get the city on board with seperating the pier from the rest of the property to ensure the public trust that they will have continued river access.  The Bay Street Pier Park will become Jacksonville's front porch,  but it will only become so if city leaders have the foresight right now at this very critical point in time to allow that access to come to fruition.  It will cost the city nothing to make that first step.

Without it, nothing would stop a developer from cutting off that promised public access.  They would have ZERO incentive to do so.

[quote author=Noone link=topic=9593.msg210276

John Nooney is an outstanding human being and true asset to Jacksonville.  He is at EVERY city council meeting and most Waterways meetings.  He does what he says he is going to do, and I am often in awe of his devotion to the issues he finds important.  (fieldafm)

 I stopped by Roberts Eatery with Jill Dame's campaign sign hanging on his tent he asked me to remind her that when she wins that he can't wait to cook for her. His story is 2010-856 the transient vendor ban and wanting to participate.



I've got tremendous concerns and I don't think that we will be getting more access but less.

Case in point. 2010-675 the USS Adams. One finance amendment that allows for a potential taxpayer bailout.

1. The Jacksonville Civic Council Recommendation of a new Authority.

2. Another group that is excited about the Jacksonville Civic Council Recommendation of a new Authority.

3. A soon to be released JCCI study Recession, Recovery, and Beyond after the elections that who knows may also be excited about a new Authority.


Another concern. FIND The Florida Inland Navigation District representing the East Coast of the state of Florida. Two years ago and counting I went to my first meeting. Susan Grandin was there with the Tust for Public Lands. I asked about a pocket pier for Duval county. The support was awesome. That first meeting I was told that you need a sponsor ( a city council member ) two years later and counting and don't have one.

At the last two Jacksonville Waterways Commission meetings the FIND updates haven't been given. Does anybody care?


The bottom line is that the pier needs to be separate. 2010-604. Redman has dropped the ball on this. Gaffney has also dropped the ball on this.

No I don't know what Hogans plan is for Shipyards. I met the man once. But what has been outlined above is not connected with Hogan.

***** But I do know this. Its no longer hearing from a politician over the years and that common response. Nooney if there was just someone else besides yourself showing up then just maybe we can do something. And they are right.****


Field, what has been inspiring with you is your relentless persuit of Bay St. Pier Park.

****What I'm trying to say is that its no longer one person. Regardless of who wins people are listening.*****

                                           --------------------------------------------------------

Nooney yields a valuable insight.Lesson.I suggest we commit the above quote excerpts to memory.

Nooney is differentiated.His mantra includes recognizing and grasping mental images of,in his own descriptive words, "Pieces of the Puzzle"...dovetailed with "Participation".Each "common response" noted above never allowed to thwart,but rather added to the puzzle board....and Score Board.
Nooney is a jewel.Like the simmering,independent reflections bouncing off the river(even when 'no one' is watching...).And he is a mirror image of many MJ family members.

The sense of concern,constricted by a profound sense of futility,the lack of the empowered individual(s) has been a hallmark of Mayoral election history itself;by most accounts this current election cycle represents the most competitive field of Candidates seen in a long time.

Individual "Activism" itself has been blasted,gutted,to the point that the very term "Activist" conjurs dark images.Don't be selfish!!

I could list here a long diatribe profiling the obscure but grave poor policy actions of Mayors basking in the Green Light and comfy approval ratings...........Surface water wars/COJ River Summit Two and our collective wailing and response with emphasis on evil central Florida without awareness of our own unseen yet vested future development,accommodation of the Beltway/Brannon Chaffee and less effective mitigation (even The Trust for Public Lands in the picture), Federal Corps of Engineers Chief apologizes to this writer via cell phone call at Brannon/Chaffee ground breaking.......then becomes (briefly) COJ Public Works head,Mike Garretson/Gulfstream well placed (briefly) in City Hall,tributary headwaters tangled up in Preservation Jacksonville,Tallahassee big wigs intervene,COJ Chief of Staff morphed to Freedom Commerce Center developer lobbyist....the list goes on but is simply a continuing narrative that extends back to Senator Joe Carlucci and beyond.....and to the horizon.

Know this: Your fellow politician WILL disappoint you.
There is nothing certain yet we love certainty and respond easily to guarantees in advance of action.



(For me personally a pivotal event was the receipt of the COJ Mayor's 2002 Mimi & Lee Adams Environmental Award-"Individual" category,including beautiful Lee Adams Limited Edition piece # 80, for supposed bravery and predictive capability.This created a true awareness for sure- soon after I resigned from an upper level,'powerful' state conservation organization board position.I simply rejoined "The Public")

"The world belongs to the enthusiast who keeps cool" -  William Mc Fee

Summer evenings are upon us - lots of daylight and perfect weather for enjoying the river.  Who would be up for a regular kayak outing after work?  We could find a suitable place to launch from the southbank - most likely from the edge of the school board property and head over to Hogans Creek for some cleanup.

When the tides are right and the wind is calm, it is a fairly easy trip - less than 1/2 mile one way.

(http://i55.tinypic.com/2ps1xys.jpg)

I'm down Doug.

When I was in town in early March I was staying at the Wyndham. I considered putting in just beyond the end of the Southbank walkway. I ended up doing Noone's Landing.
It looked like a potential long tide swept, windy 1/2 mile jaunt  that could take me elsewhere, especially on a sit on top.

You definitely would not want to attempt this with an outgoing tide and a NE wind.

But when weather conditions are favorable, it is actually pretty easy.  You just have to watch for the large wakes coming from the boats and do your best to point into them.  But heck - what's kayaking without a little adventure!

What to do with the Shipyards?

Last week I attempted to attend the PUBLIC/PRIVATE announcement at Talleyrand of Keystone Industries. I so much wanted to hear from Gov. Scott and our new Mayor Alvin Brown of how we will be doing more PUBLIC/PRIVATE partnerships. It didn't happen.

I was not arrested but I was detained. Thats right I was not allowed to hear about the PUBLIC part of the PUBLIC/PRIVATE partnership. I will be sharing more of this. My city councilman Don Redman is aware of the incident and I hope he will introduce a resolution at the Aug.10 Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting that will adress this statewide embarassment. We are wanting to reach out to our regional counties, JAXUSA, Our port, our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

I'm still very concerned with whats going to happen with the Shipyards.   

That is ridiculous.  What reason did they give for not allowing you to attend?

A decade ago I visited a Colombian Flagged Ship at Talleyrand, we knew the captain and wanted to extend our hospitality. As my wife and I returned to our car we were split up and strip searched by Federal Agents. I wasn't infected, injected, inspected, and neglected that much when I joined the Navy during Vietnam.

A year or so ago, Metrojacksonville got a tour of the Port Terminals, and we WERE allowed to take photos but only in the presence of a Port Official and only from the inside of the port vehicle. At no time did we touch the ground from the moment they picked us up outside the gates until they brought us back.

Wasn't the dedication at the Port held on the Keystone Property? All of that area if a Federally Designated SUPER PORT ZONE, and homeland security will not even let a long-distance trucker through the gates unless he has proper Port/Transportation Security Credentials. Security at the port is at war time heights and DON'T get caught pointing a camera across Talleyrand Avenue unless your willing to lose it.

The Talleyrand Terminal had an official visit by the Homeland Security Storm Troopers, because they got a 'new' locomotive (actually a used engine off the Apalachicola Northern) and they made the grave mistake of taking its picture next to the crossing on Talleyrand. The company officer I was talking to said the response was immediate and bordered on brutal.

There are signs posted as you enter the Port Zone, so consider yourselves warned. As the laws are currently written you are under a marshall law type existence if you are within the zone.

OCKLAWAHA

Quote from: dougskiles on March 22, 2011, 03:59:35 PM
You definitely would not want to attempt this with an outgoing tide and a NE wind.

Pretty much describes conditions underway with Masterful Guide John Noone July 17,2011.
Planned around incoming flood tide,which even under the influence of full moon and NE fetch tide inevitably shifted to outgo before we bailed out of a research/recreation destination,pressing on to the next.

The reason given for being detained and not arrested for wanting to attend a PUBLIC/PRIVATE Partnership announcement being given by our new Governor of Florida and Mayor of our city of Jacksonville was that I wasn't on the list.

I was in line outside on Talleyrand waiting in traffic like everyone else. Both lanes were turned one way to help with traffic entering the property. I had my license out and informed the guard that I was wanting to hear our Governor and Mayor speak about the PUBLIC part of our PUBLIC/PRIVATE Partnership. It was on the news, radio, in the paper and I wanted to be a part of this special day. I was asked to drive around and park adjacent to the entrance. I get out of my vehicle and a guard is standing there next to me and I'm watching and recognizing so many people and I'm sharing this with the guard. I see Governor Scott and just wanted to shout out to him but I chose to refrain. I'm thinking to myself as I'm just standing there that here is what is supposed to be a special day and the absolute explosion of so called perceived PUBLIC/PRIVATE Partnerships that will now be flooding our city. Palms Fish Camp, Palms Fish Camp, Palms Fish Camp, Who's going to jail for that?   Keystone Industries is special in my book because they overcame the JPA using eminent domain to originally take their property and then lost in court and are here now today after using their money to Make it Happen.

Another reason why I wanted to participate was the river component to this project. I remember years ago and attending Waterway meetings and the discussion of this project as well as others. The sentencing of Tony Nelson will be occurring shortly and it will be a great day for the city of Jacksonville. The Public Trust has just been totally crushed in this community especially when it relates to a conspiracy to deny access and economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River. This project is also an example of a little guy overcoming  the corruption of power.

I met with a number of Commissioners of FIND last week. They inspire me.

A settlement has been reached regarding the amount of money the city lost on the Shipyards.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=534527

^Well the article doesn't begin to do justice to the TriLegacy fraud, but the situation appears to be moving in the right direction at least. The city has the land and hopefully some money, we may finally see some progress on the property.

The settlement is a JOKE.

The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier, Downtown's Tradeport Pier needs to be separate and outside the control of a yet to be voted on and created Downtown Authority.

The Pier issue was highlighted at a special Waterways FIND subcommittee meeting Aug. 31.

Be concerned. more under 2011-560

What to do with the Shipyards? Waterways in 8 1/2 hours. This is Shipyards III. The Public Trust has been crushed. Redman is leading the conspiracy to deny the opportunity for Public Access and Economic opportunity to our St. Johns River our American Heritage River.

Be concerned. 

The Promised 680' Downtown Public Pier needs to be outside the control of the yet to be created total Govt takeover of our Downtown.

Free Parking  (meters)
Free docking  ( The Pier)

Do nothing lets want until someone with deep pockets puts his or her Money upfront? Lets not be screwed once again!

I say make it a park...oh wait, they just did that!

this just in from Oakland, CA - a *very* similar piece of land just received a $1.5B infusion from a Chinese investor and will become 3,100 housing units (with 200K SF retail and 33 acres of greenspace).

Similarities:
- Land size
- Land configuration
- Prior use
- Cost to develop
- Timeframe (10 years)
- Connection to a downtown area
- Connection via inland waterway to a greater public space (Lake Merritt in this case via canal...Shipyards had potential to use Hogans Creek to connect to Emerald Necklace should anyone ever decide to care)
- Warehouses and industrial use in area still intact

Differences:
- Shipyards is arguably one of two remaining "large" undeveloped pieces of waterfront land in a city with very limited public/greenspace, let alone waterfront
- Brooklyn Basis had the support of not only Mayor Quan of Oakland, but CA Governor Jerry Brown, who personally went to China to help close the deal with the Chinese investor
- $1.5B is a relatively common $ figure for a 10 year redevelopment project in the Bay...would be by far the largest completed redevelopment in the entire state of FL

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/political/la-me-pc-jerry-brown-touts-15-billion-chinese-investment-in-oakland-housing-project-20130410,0,3364359.story
http://www.socketsite.com/archives/2013/04/oaklands_66acre_brooklyn_basin_development_finally_fund.html#more

(http://www.socketsite.com/Brooklyn%20Basin%20Site.jpg)

(http://www.socketsite.com/Brooklyn%20Basin%20Site%20Plan.gif)

(http://www.socketsite.com/Brooklyn%20Basin%20Rendering.jpg)

Interesting how that one area is 'skipped over' in the middle.  I guess they anticipate that area will redevelop later?

Thanks for sharing.  I'm impressed with the amount of park space allowed.   

They are putting 3,100 units with 250,000 SF retail/commercial on 66 acres while still preserving 30 acres for parks...contrast with the similar Shipyards final plan

Shipyards:

Phase 1 ($122M)
72 loft condos
120 townhouses
16.8 acres parkspace
150 boat slips

Phase 2 ($555M)
~650 condos in three towers
58 townhomes
24 other resi units
910,000 SF office over structured parking
36,500 SF restail/commercial space

Phase 3 ($106M)
350 key hotel
90,000 SF office
50,000 SF retail/commercial

In total:
$783M
924 residential units
1,000,000 SF office
86,500 SF commercial space
350 hotel rooms
150 boat slips
16.8 acres park space


The Shipyards was proposed when all anyone could think about was luxury, spacious condos...so doubling the original units proposed (924 I believe x 2 as the office would have taken up the same space) and you get about 69 units per usable acre.  With the Oakland proposal you get about 86 units per usable acre, most likely because they are bound to be smaller rental units than larger luxury condos.  Shipyards set aside 38% of land for parks, Oakland proposal sets aside 45%, so they are very similar.

$ for $ (considering each plan as 3 million SF) the Oakland proposal is spending $500/sf and the Shipyards was proposed to cost $261/sf.  Nothing to do with the proposals themselves and all to do with the times, the unions vs non-union workers, fees, material costs, etc.

Quote from: vicupstate on April 11, 2013, 04:49:12 AM
Interesting how that one area is 'skipped over' in the middle.  I guess they anticipate that area will redevelop later?

Thanks for sharing.  I'm impressed with the amount of park space allowed.   

No area was skipped over - that would be park space.  See post above, the density of residential units for this proposal is considerably higher than the Shipyards proposal.

What do you mean park space "allowed"?

The area that is isolated with no trees or grass looks to be excluded from the project.

I am impressed that they devoted that amount of space to parks.

Quote from: Ocklawaha on September 12, 2010, 11:51:15 PM

(http://historicaltextarchive.com/ADAMS/image037.jpg)
Guess where?

A giant wooden roller coaster, boardwalk-riverwalk, arcades, various kiddie rides, a couple of family interest museums such as maritime, railroad, firehouse... toss in some unusual retail, yeah, like maybe that Ikea or Bass pro or Rail Forest Cafe, (all three either on or along Hogans Creek"walk" and connected by boats, skyway and streetcar and wow, yeah, we'd be busting out the seams.

Well guess what folks, just in case Carter or us other Jaxson's really wanted a WORLD CLASS MUSEUM THAT NOT EVEN DISNEY COULD DUPLICATE?

(http://www.jeffhead.com/USNReserveBremerton/USSIndependenceCV62-3.jpg)

The USS Independence, carrier, post WWII to date, last immediate post WWII era carrier to retire, awaiting being blown up and sunk! But in the meantime it IS available. The island would have to come off and be put back on later, but WOW would that be cool or what?

(http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/uss-olympia/olympia.jpg)

The USS Olympia, Cruiser, Spanish American War, earliest steel ship afloat anywhere in the world. 1898. Been in Philadelphia for years as the Number ONE attraction, but alas, they don't have money to dry dock here and repair the hull and other work so the Navy is planning to take her off NJ and SINK HER as a reef!

(http://navyphotos.togetherweserved.com/41499.jpg)

USS Charles Adams, OH YEAH, get-er-done swabies. Did you know that the "new" USS Hoel is a ship of the Charles Adams Class? The Hoel's namesake, a wwII tin-can was sunk in the Battle of Leyte Gulf but only after it and a couple of sister ships tangled with the worlds largest battle ship, and the entire Imperial Japanese Fleet  in what has to be the most lopsided fights of all time. They actually achieved two things that will probably stand as a record forever... They chased off the Japanese fleet, and most astounding after they sunk the Japanese Admrial returned with his flagship... Every enemy sailor was decorating the railing, all at attention and saluting the brave American Sailors, before they left they tossed some canned fruit to our boys. The Adams and it's class have some great stories to tell.

Hell toss in the USS JACKSONVILLE when she is retired in a few years and we'd have our own fleet for visitors.

The other places with these ships or "thinking about it" don't have the money + don't have the tourist traffic to repay a bond issue. GUESS WHAT? WE DO! (Over 118,000 vehicles per day come down I-95, and the population of St. John's has jumped 108%, Nassau is already one of the fastest growing in the State)

Oh and a little aside I'll let y'all in on, I've been talking to certain corporations about a ZEPPELIN MUSEUM with mock-ups of Hindenburg travel, the GRAF and/or LOS ANGELES. Not only are they interested, if I hear from our PORT and AIRPORT AUTHORITIES, they are interested in basing a REAL ZEPPELIN here.

Cool or what?

OCKLAWAHA

The USS Charles F. Adams is moving forward. DIA subcommittee meeting in two  days Ed Ball building 1st floor at 4pm.  CRA/DIA  in the USA is also wrapping up.
What will be if any the Public Access and economic opportunity that will be allowed on our St. Johns River our American Heritage River a FEDERAL Initiative in our new highly restricted DIA zone?

Spoke with Scott Wilson today and he was going to FIND out what is going on with the Shipyards property next to Hogans Creek that has all the construction equipment and material on it. Don Redman is out of town. He did receive the picture and right now they have no clue what is going on. Next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting 1/15/14 at 9 am in council chambers.

There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

I would imagine this is in preparation for the new scoreboards at the stadium... But what do I know? lol

Quote from: Noone on January 02, 2014, 04:23:03 AM
There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

This is probably going to be used for staging materials for the Southbank Riverwalk demo and reconstruction.  I was speaking with someone from the contractor about how they were doing the work a few weeks ago. 

I think Shad Khan will have this property this year. It makes too much sense for him!

Quote from: carpnter on January 02, 2014, 09:41:31 AM

Quote from: Noone on January 02, 2014, 04:23:03 AM
There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

This is probably going to be used for staging materials for the Southbank Riverwalk demo and reconstruction.  I was speaking with someone from the contractor about how they were doing the work a few weeks ago.

They are staging material for work on the Southbank on the Northbank?

Quote from: acme54321 on January 02, 2014, 11:48:28 AMThey are staging material for work on the Southbank on the Northbank?

Probably easier to float the materials across the river to where they are needed rather than haul them through occupied parking lots.

Quote from: acme54321 on January 02, 2014, 11:48:28 AM

Quote from: carpnter on January 02, 2014, 09:41:31 AM

Quote from: Noone on January 02, 2014, 04:23:03 AM
There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

This is probably going to be used for staging materials for the Southbank Riverwalk demo and reconstruction.  I was speaking with someone from the contractor about how they were doing the work a few weeks ago.

They are staging material for work on the Southbank on the Northbank?

Yes, they will be using barges and the marine contractor will have to drive the piles from barges, there is no way they can set up on the southbank, there isn't the space for it. 
There is no space available (at a reasonable price) to store the necessary materials on the Southbank

The folks on MetroJacksonville are correct. They are using this area as a staging area for the Southbank Construction.

Quote from: carpnter on January 02, 2014, 04:28:52 PM

Quote from: acme54321 on January 02, 2014, 11:48:28 AM

Quote from: carpnter on January 02, 2014, 09:41:31 AM

Quote from: Noone on January 02, 2014, 04:23:03 AM
There is activity on the Shipyards property right now. The last pier that is next to Hogans Creek has equipment and construction material and after talking with my elected legislative representative Don Redman Dist. 4 representative's assistant Scott Wilson they had no idea what was going on. Don is also the Chair of Waterways. JWC meeting is 13 days out. The super duper secret FIND list is to be announced soon too.

This is probably going to be used for staging materials for the Southbank Riverwalk demo and reconstruction.  I was speaking with someone from the contractor about how they were doing the work a few weeks ago.

They are staging material for work on the Southbank on the Northbank?

Yes, they will be using barges and the marine contractor will have to drive the piles from barges, there is no way they can set up on the southbank, there isn't the space for it. 
There is no space available (at a reasonable price) to store the necessary materials on the Southbank

Makes sense now, I forget that they are basically building a linear dock down the seawall.

Quote from: Scott A Wilson on January 02, 2014, 04:49:47 PM
The folks on MetroJacksonville are correct. They are using this area as a staging area for the Southbank Construction.

Scott, Appreciate the call yesterday and the follow up post on MJ. So it is a staging area for the Southbank Riverwalk Construction project. Makes a lot of sense. Glad to hear it. But it also highlights a lot of the disconnect that is happening with OED and DIA.

As we were talking about this  I hope that Don who you said has been at all the meetings or almost every meeting that he will have the Riverwalk project come before Waterways and tell everyone what is or isn't the Public Access component to the new floating dock that will be part of this positive project. RAM dock is only opened when RAM is opened. Not good.

I'm glad that we also agree that the USS Charles F. Adams is another positive project for our new DIA zone.

8 days out from the next Jacksonville Waterways Commission meeting. Does anyone have a clue as to what is going on behind closed doors especially with FIND? Our property tax money. Don Redman is the Chair of Waterways. Another million dollar trick pony announcement for Downtown? We are not just talking about a retention pond.

Have a message in to my Dist. 4 elected legislative representative who also happens to be the Chair of Waterways. Will there be a kayak launch at MOSH? Fantastic opportunity! HUGE Waterways meeting 1/15/14

Will the Southbank project come before Waterways?

Downtown
Is
Adrift
meeting later in the day.

A new Authority
Embrace It
Or
It will Embrace Us

Planning a RICO paddle after the Backroom announcements.

Would something like a larger version of Tapestry Park with retail on the first floor with residential above work on this property?  Having this along with something like the USS Adams and another type of destination establishment make it work?  Or is the property just too costly for something like this to be viable?

Or perhaps something like that better suited for the jEA property next to the school board building??

I'm in the minority but we've got bigger things to fix than the Shipyards or JEA sites.  Yes, they offer opportunity but they aren't exactly centrally located. If looking at DT redevelopment as a long term process, it may make sense fix what we already have (ex. Hemming, Jax Landing, MOSH, empty storefronts, vacant historic buildings, transit system, etc. then those sites. Maybe it's just me, but get the core right and you'll have the private sector fighting for the right to put something up on those sites.

Not to derail the thread but what ever happened to the announcement about the plans for the Trio that was supposed to be announced last year during One Spark? It's hard to get excited about anything dealing with downtown. We'll hear something that sounds like good news and then you never hear about it again.

Well I never said let's make it a priority , was just wondering if something like this woukd make sense for either of these properties. 

Quote from: comncense on January 12, 2014, 03:25:00 PM
Not to derail the thread but what ever happened to the announcement about the plans for the Trio that was supposed to be announced last year during One Spark? It's hard to get excited about anything dealing with downtown. We'll hear something that sounds like good news and then you never hear about it again.

Good question, but probably better in the actual Laura St Trio thread.  ;)

It was announced a month or so later...and includes a Marriott hotel

Quote from: comncense on January 12, 2014, 03:25:00 PM
Not to derail the thread but what ever happened to the announcement about the plans for the Trio that was supposed to be announced last year during One Spark? It's hard to get excited about anything dealing with downtown. We'll hear something that sounds like good news and then you never hear about it again.

There's plenty of info about that on here and across the web. Just google it :) It did take awhile for them to followup after saying they'd announce once One Spark was over. Obviously an excuse since they didnt have their details settled.

Quote from: edjax on January 12, 2014, 03:28:44 PM
Well I never said let's make it a priority , was just wondering if something like this woukd make sense for either of these properties. 

In that case, yes. We should strive for mixed use infill for all new construction projects.  If it were me, I'd (as a city) carve out whatever public space believed needed, add in street infrastructure (or at least set ROW aside) and parcel the remaining off for private mixed use development.  In other words, the municipality takes ownership of the public infrastructure and overall vision but the private market controls specific uses with site layouts/architectural designs, etc. that fit within the overall community vision.

I think this was brought up a while back, but what about something on a smaller scale of L.A. Live and XFinity Live in Philly? I like how XFinity Live even includes a professional sized playing field (http://www.xfinitylive.com/index.cfm?page=map-parking). Between sports types of bars/restaurants and maybe something to accommodate the minor league soccer team, that would be a nice blend from the 'Entertainment" district into the Sports District. Though if successful, it would probably cannibalize the current business model of the Landing.

^Basically. With Sleiman proposing to tear most of the Landing down and replacing it with more restaurants and entertainment venues, he's essentially creating something pretty similar.

True Lake but excuse me for not being too excited about any project connected to Sleiman. Though I know what I suggested is very pie in the sky for Jax anyway.

Whatever you do don't give it the the PFPF in a land swap for pension obligations. Shipyards III
Super Duper Secret FIND meeting one day out. Does anybody care? 2014-22