Where's that Super Bowl Spirit?
(http://photos.metrojacksonville.com/photos/465927755_vVYpY-M.jpg)
Now with the highest murder rate in the State, a lackluster downtown, and a community looking down on itself, the Mayor of Jacksonville wants to know if we can get that Super Bowl spirit back.
Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/855
Leadership in transit and parks...where's Jacksonville's?
Whoops, my bad. I forgot we got that great pocket park on Main.
We have regressed since the Super Bowl.
Detroit? Birmingham? Those cities are bankrupt. Houston's got a gajillion people. Omaha? C'mon please, I want rail like anybody else but as bad as it is right now I wouldn't look to any of those cities as shining examples of planning or anything else positive.
Don't we have the largest park system in the nation? It might not all be Central Park but we do have an Olmstead Brothers.
Regressed since the Super Bowl? Those were FAKE bars on Bay St during the game. Now they are real.
Regressed?
In some ways yes, but others, we are slowly getting it going. The biggest hurdle is getting a new administration in this city. If we can get a progressive mayor, we'd be set.
I understand the developer of the Strand and the Peninsular fell in love with the property during his Superbowl visit.(Urban Legend?) Can we count them as our legacy project. Having a legacy project would have been a wonderful way to approach hosting then we could look back and say we have this because we hosted a Superbowl.
Plans for The Strand and The Penisula were in place LONG before the Jax Super Bowl took place. The fact that Jax was going to host a bowl might have made an impression, but it is impossible for the event itself to have swayed the developers in any way. The die was already cast by then.
The SB was a tremendous wasted opportunity.
Quote from: SunKing on February 02, 2009, 08:21:27 AM
Detroit? Birmingham? Those cities are bankrupt. Houston's got a gajillion people. Omaha? C'mon please, I want rail like anybody else but as bad as it is right now I wouldn't look to any of those cities as shining examples of planning or anything else positive.
Don't we have the largest park system in the nation? It might not all be Central Park but we do have an Olmstead Brothers.
Regressed since the Super Bowl? Those were FAKE bars on Bay St during the game. Now they are real.
If memory serves, a COUPLE of the bars were real at the time. There are like four now. Progress perhaps but not much for all the money spent.
There are cities of 30,000 that Jacksonville could learn from. I've never been to Omaha, but I keep hearing lots of positive things about it. No doubt, they have their act together a lot better that the folks on Duval street.
Jax may have the largest park system, but it also has the lousiest. 97% of it is unused conservation land.
That is part of Jax's problem. 2/3rds of the city has a inferiority complex and the other third has a superiority complex based on apple-to-oranges population figures made possible by consolidation.
A park, by definition, is land set aside for recreation by humans.
Like vicupstate said, most of the land included in the Jax 'Park' System does not meet this criteria.
The only permanent nightlife downtown at the start of the Superbowl was the London Bridge. Burrito Gallery had not officially opened yet, but had a makeshift setup leading up to game. There was no Marks, Dive or Ivy. I believe TSI was still in it's original location where the Pearl is now. I don't recall what the landing had at the time because I never went there. A part of the problem was not seizing the opp we had with the SB, but I think expectations were probably set a little too high, including my own. A Superbowl by itself isn't going to magically transform a city.
The super bowl won't but progressive leadership can. Charlotte and Charleston are shining examples.
That's exactly what I said! :)
Quote from: SunKing on February 02, 2009, 08:21:27 AM
Regressed since the Super Bowl? Those were FAKE bars on Bay St during the game. Now they are real.
Perhaps regressed was the wrong choice of word but failure to take advantage of momentum may have been more appropriate.
1. Not true that Jax has highest murder rate in state. Orlando had 42 even before December,
http://www.cityoforlando.net/police/pio/releases/2009/01-07-09-Year_In_Review_2008.htm (page 12 of pdf) which means it has at least 23 per 100,000 people. If a city Jax's size had that many murders it would have had about 190, way more than the actual number.
2. The notion that one football game was going to have a transformative effect is just stupid. Does anyone besides a hard-core football fan remember who hosted the Super Bowl in what year?
Quote from: thelakelander on February 02, 2009, 09:44:37 AM
The super bowl won't but progressive leadership can. Charlotte and Charleston are shining examples.
Actually, Chas is starting to regress a bit, especially with jobs, business, the port, and finishing its beltway.
Outside of spots like DC, most cities are regressing a bit in these areas because of the national economic conditions. Nevertheless, there has been no regression in visionary leadership coming from the Mayor's office.
Indeed Lewyn.
But compared to Jacksonville's 123 murders in 2007 (latest available info through COJ.net that I could find) compared to Orlando's 38 for that year, I'd say there's quite a discrepancy. Jacksonville clearly had the higher murder numbers.
And because there are less total people in Jax than Orlando, that means our per capita rate was even higher.
Quote from: lewyn on February 02, 2009, 11:00:10 AM
2. The notion that one football game was going to have a transformative effect is just stupid. Does anyone besides a hard-core football fan remember who hosted the Super Bowl in what year?
I don't think that was the intended notion. While hosting a super bowl can be used as a catalyst for public legacy projects (ie. Detroit's Campus Martius Park), the super bowl spirit Mayor Peyton wants the community to have can only be achieved through visionary leadership. In other words, it will start or end with him (or a future administration).
Quote from: thelakelander on February 02, 2009, 11:23:18 AM
Outside of spots like DC, most cities are regressing a bit in these areas because of the national economic conditions. Nevertheless, there has been no regression in visionary leadership coming from the Mayor's office.
We will disagree here. He has become more inept in getting basic infrastructure completed like downtown drainage and flood prevention, while kowtowing to extremist organizations like the Coastal Conservation League among other environmentalists with several actions: severely dimming lighting on the new Ravenel bridge, trying to build walkable suburbs through building higher-density WITHOUT building sidewalks in the currently existing neighborhoods, and not strongly emphasizing and encouraging the completion of I-526.
Riley has had good ideas in the past, but he is now declining in age and health. As a result, he is starting to become a puppet of the NIMBYs and environmentalists that plague the city. The major redevelopment projects that were planned have slowed down, and while the economy shoulders most of the blame, the projects were downscaled by Riley and his minions on the planning board. Downscaling NEVER produces inspiration to encourage strong redevelopment. Meanwhile, N. Charleston, the city's fiercest suburban competitor is poised to develop more retail and residential areas while Chas sits on its hands.
Read some of the more recent articles, and you'll see what's happening in that community. Riley is starting to become a municipal Strom Thurmond: has the experience, but is too old to do anything with it.
If you don't mind, attach a few links to the recent articles you mentioned.
That will take some time, but I'll do my best.
The SB was a tremendous wasted opportunity.
[/quote]
I would disagree. There was some good changes that happened after the Super Bowl. Despite the fact that we only have a skyway and not rail which some of us still wishing this town would've got, we now have some residents living in downtown, some restaurants and bars were added. I think that the Super Bowl was the best thing that had happened here. And maybe when we get the another Super Bowl sometime in the near future, we will probably do a whole lot better than before. 8)
Quote from: Doctor_K on February 02, 2009, 11:36:01 AM
Indeed Lewyn.
But compared to Jacksonville's 123 murders in 2007 (latest available info through COJ.net that I could find) compared to Orlando's 38 for that year, I'd say there's quite a discrepancy. Jacksonville clearly had the higher murder numbers.
And because there are less total people in Jax than Orlando, that means our per capita rate was even higher.
Total people in City of Orlando is much smaller than Jacksonville, which leads to lop-sided statistics. We may have more murders, but look at the # of people here, it is comparable to similar-sized cities.
I don't think the Super Bowl did much to permanently change the physical or emotional face of Jax or add permanent jobs. What it was good for was to provide an invaluable opportunity to show the LOCAL populace what our future potential could be if we made long term enhancements to downtown.
On the Saturday before the game, I walked from the Southbank over the Main Street bridge and walked from CSX along the riverwalk, through the Adams Mark/Hyatt, and onto Bay Street to the Stadium, the Baseball Grounds, and the Shipyards . I also took in the NFL Experience on the Southbank. Unfortunately, I haven't found many locals who did the same, most of them likely scared off by the overblown fears of traffic (I found a free parking space at the foot of the Acosta bridge diagonal to CSX. It was only steps to the action on the Riverwalk. And the traffic was almost nil because most visitors downtown didn't have cars! -they flew and took taxis or buses).
If the locals had taken the time, they would have experienced pedestrian-only streets jammed wall to wall with tens of thousands of people for the entire stretch enjoying a wonderful day and evening with lots of food, entertainment, street happenings, best fireworks show ever in Jax, etc. a la Bourbon Street of New Orleans or NY's Times Square, the hundreds of boats and yachts in the river and along the Riverwalk, and the planes, blimps, and helicopters flying continuously overhead. If one couldn't get excited about our potential then, it will never happen.
A week after the game, it was like it was all a dream. Not a shred of evidence existed that anything had changed as all the bars, restaurants, booths, events, street closures, banners, fireworks, etc. were like a Hollywood set to be dismantled when the movie shooting is over.
So...if our residents, movers, and shakers did not immerse themselves in these festivities, they will not have benefitted from us having the Super Bowl. My supposition is so few had the experience, it isn't enough to leave a legacy or imprint on the City's fabric - or to create a groundswell demanding a permanent recreation of same. Another squandered opportunity.
Quote from: Charleston native on February 02, 2009, 11:21:11 AM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 02, 2009, 09:44:37 AM
The super bowl won't but progressive leadership can. Charlotte and Charleston are shining examples.
Actually, Chas is starting to regress a bit, especially with jobs, business, the port, and finishing its beltway.
The port has had some setbacks, but it is controlled completely by a STATE authority. The throughly inept leadership in Columbia is responsible for that. The last leg of the beltway is not being completed because doing so would be a costly and sprawl-inducing mistake. Not to mention it will cost a boat-load of money that no one has right now.
As for the total BS comments on Riley, he has more vision and leadership in his toenail clippings than the entirety of Jacksonville's business and government bodies combined. Riley is 65 and runs several miles daily, Thurmond was 100 and didn't know wher ehe was half the time, your comparision is bogus.
Although no city is immune from the national econmy ,there is still plenty going on in Charleston. Cigar Factory Lofts, Morris Square, One Cool Blow, Anson House condomiums, Longbranch, the digital corridor, the Midtown project. ALL of those are just in the DT area.
If you want the details just read this state of the city report from last week.
http://www.charleston.net/media/2009/text/sotca2009.doc
I would far rather live in a city that had a battle royale whenever history is endangered, than live in one where no one cares until decades later when everyone laments " if only we had saved those beautiful old buildings, think where we would be today".
What about the riverwalk expansion or the lighting of the bridges? I'd say those were our Superbowl legacies, and a great addition to the city.
Vic, it is only because you adhere to an obsession with preservation that you think the city is doing great. You refer to the state of the city address; I'll refer to the numerous articles indicating an almost successful incorporation of a pseudo-town (James Island), the port of Chas losing one of its primary shipping companies (Maersk), West Ashley's retail area still void of redevelopment (Citadel Mall falling apart) while N. Charleston is aggressively expanding with Watson Hill and planning new retail centers, and continuous flooding downtown despite the promises made years ago. And I never said he was comparable to Thurmond completely, I said he was beginning to.
Evidently, you are walking lockstep with the environmentalist whackos of the CCL who prefer moving traffic through established neighborhoods rather than listening to the working people of Chas who have been screaming for years to finish the beltway. If zoning is enforced, suburban development can be minimized...oh, it is interesting to note that neighborhoods and shopping centers are being built on Johns Island EVEN WITHOUT I-526 BEING BUILT. So I guess it makes sense to not build a beltway even if it ISN'T encouraging suburban development? ::)
You need to read up on the SPA. It is a state agency in terms of governance, but it is a quasi-business, meaning that it is not publically funded. It is also NOT HQ'd in Cola; the SPA HQ is on Concord Street in downtown Chas. Groseclose, the CEO, has just resigned, but he was hamstrung by NIMBYs, the ILA (union) the CCL, and state bureaucrats. These entities have prevented Chas from getting the Global Gateway terminal as well as another essential north/south interstate, plus they have interfered with the current terminal that is trying to be built on the Navy base.
Since I don't have much time, here's an article that many of you may find interesting...it shows that Charleston's real competitor for port business could be good old Jacksonville: http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/02/jacksonville_wants_piece_containerport_action/
Quote from: Jason on February 02, 2009, 04:12:52 PM
What about the riverwalk expansion or the lighting of the bridges? I'd say those were our Superbowl legacies, and a great addition to the city.
Both were paid by the taxpayers, not private investment. And while the Super Bowl might have sped up these projects, they were discussed long ago. I think, sooner or later, they would have still been done. Regardless, while nice bells and whistles, I hardly call these the high impact projects affecting the life blood of downtown (you don't even need to leave your car or go downtown to see most of the bridges).
By the way, last time I saw the Main Street bridge at night, the LED displays, such as the American Flag and its other changeable patterns, on the towers were not up to snuff. I haven't seen them maintained at full capacity since the Super Bowl.
Soon, I will start another topic on a significant project I think should be at the top of the Super Bowl's legacy in Jax. Keep your eyes peeled.
Not going to argue with you there. The Main Street bridge graphics were failing within the first year of operation. Still, you can't deny the lighting on the bridges is very striking.
I'm looking forward to your next thread.
The lights on the Main St. bridge seem to be in disrepair... The LEDS have not worked in a year and the blue lighting is only partial. Are the lights on the Hart still on?
The LED lights were on the night before the December Thursday night NFL game so TV cameras could film them....the blue lights have sometimes been fully on and other times barely on at all....I believe the City is just trying to save some $....everytime I look, the Hart lights are on.
It's a shame the lights on the bridge can not be repaired. I really thought after the SB the way of thinking would change here, but it all left with the SB as well. :(
Quote from: thelakelander on February 02, 2009, 12:05:52 PM
If you don't mind, attach a few links to the recent articles you mentioned.
Here are some links to show what is going on in my hometown:
http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/jan/26/proposal_rules_out_extended_highway69553/ (Riley kowtowing to the CCL by placating them with a half-ass alternative)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/dec/09/riley_other_mayors_talk_infrastructure64432/ (Instead of using the city's budget, Riley is now asking for federal dollars for drainage and schools...without even
mentioning I-526, widening I-26 from terminus/US 17, walkways on other city bridges, and intersection improvements on SC 61, SC 7, US 17, and SC 171)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/nov/12/developers_unveil_plans61302/ (as Riley dabbles with tiny redevelopment projects, its northern suburb continues to grab more of the retail market through massive $750 million projects)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/nov/03/a_grand_design60242/ (now 4 years after removal, not one shovel has turned over dirt in this project due to slow, uninspired planning)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/11/n_charleston_ready_settle54169/ (Riley has neglected to annex large tracts West Ashley, causing this dispute between its northern suburbs)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/11/lighting_public_restrooms_more_parking_p54022/ (NOTHING has been done for this plan to renovate the market)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/09/city_st_andrews_strike_revenue_deal53511/ (A ridiculous deal between the city and PSD where the PSD still gets tax revenue while the city has jurisdiction; read my comments under poster "icbmman")
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/aug/20/council_divided_on_sag51426/ (Allowing city council to spend time making asinine laws)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/jun/22/police_crack_down_on_parking_lot_parties45321/ (More asinine laws prohibiting alcohol at tailgate parties next to Riverdog and Citadel games while public drunks still ask for handouts downtown; in conjunction, the city has been aggressively prohibiting wine at its art walks)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/dec/19/shipping_out65559/ (Maersk pulling out of the Chas port; while this is not directly related to Riley, he is indirectly responsible with his complicit collaborations with the CCL and other environmental groups that have limited port expansion...if the port had aggressive expansion plans pushed by the mayor, Maersk would not have made the decision has hastily)
That is all I will do, since I have alot of work to focus on. I'm cutting my posts down now, so feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this further.
No disrespect to Charleston, but hopefully Maersk considers Jaxport as a relocation option since they are pulling out of Charleston. I'm sure Jax can find a way to accomodate their shipping needs.
Oh well. Congrats to Savannah.
QuoteCharleston's loss will become Savannah's gain as Maersk Line - making good on its promise to pull its South Atlantic Express service out of the South Carolina port - announced Tuesday that its revised service will include port calls in Savannah and Wilmington, N.C.
"The addition of these calls and adjustments to the overall schedule will improve transit times and broaden coverage for this service to benefit our customers," the shipping line said in a prepared statement.
Savannah will be the South Atlantic Express service's first U.S. inbound port of call, beginning with the arrival of the Maersk Tangier on March 5, said Doug J. Marchand, executive director of the Georgia Ports Authority.
"This announcement represents a welcome addition to the GPA's service portfolio while further strengthening the excellent relationship between Maersk and the Authority," Marchand said. "We look forward to providing Georgia's customers direct access to markets in Central America."
full article: http://savannahnow.com/node/665433
Quote from: thelakelander on February 04, 2009, 01:52:15 PM
No disrespect to Charleston, but hopefully Maersk considers Jaxport as a relocation option since they are pulling out of Charleston. I'm sure Jax can find a way to accomodate their shipping needs.
Doesn't Maersk have some kind of presence in Jax?
They already have a presence here.
Quote from: thelakelander on February 04, 2009, 01:52:15 PM
No disrespect to Charleston, but hopefully Maersk considers Jaxport as a relocation option since they are pulling out of Charleston. I'm sure Jax can find a way to accomodate their shipping needs.
Thought everyone would be interested in what Charlestonians have to say about JaxPort. See this recent analytical article praising our port:
http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/02/jacksonville_wants_piece_containerport_action/
Nice find StJr.
Great article on Jacksonville from a different angle. Read the comments... Jax may have its problems and made some mistakes but so have other cities... :)
Very true. I think we all get a bit of a negative opinion on our great city because so much focus tends to be spent on correcting our faults. Jacksonville has MANY MANY MANY more positives than she does negatives.
Quote from: stjr on February 04, 2009, 07:25:45 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 04, 2009, 01:52:15 PM
No disrespect to Charleston, but hopefully Maersk considers Jaxport as a relocation option since they are pulling out of Charleston. I'm sure Jax can find a way to accomodate their shipping needs.
Thought everyone would be interested in what Charlestonians have to say about JaxPort. See this recent analytical article praising our port:
http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/02/jacksonville_wants_piece_containerport_action/
Too bad Charleston Native already posted that exact link in this thread three days ago. :)
Yes, good find, stjr. ;-)
(I'm just sticking up for the guy cause I know what it's like to make a post and have the credit go to someone else later...lol)
Some Super Bowl pics I pulled off the old hard drive. Oh the memories.....
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Great shots! Thanks for sharing.
Thanks...
I almost forgot, Happy Birthday BG
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QuoteToo bad Charleston Native already posted that exact link in this thread three days ago. :)
Yes, good find, stjr. ;-)
(I'm just sticking up for the guy cause I know what it's like to make a post and have the credit go to someone else later...lol)
Apoloiges, I missed that one. It's hard to tell from the link unless you click on what story it is. I click on many but miss a few when rushed. Interesting that the intro to the link can make a difference as to whether it gets pursued apparently. Everyone seems to have a different "hot button" ;)
Quote from: Charleston native on February 02, 2009, 04:42:21 PM
Vic, it is only because you adhere to an obsession with preservation that you think the city is doing great. You refer to the state of the city address; I'll refer to the numerous articles indicating an almost successful incorporation of a pseudo-town (James Island), the port of Chas losing one of its primary shipping companies (Maersk), West Ashley's retail area still void of redevelopment (Citadel Mall falling apart) while N. Charleston is aggressively expanding with Watson Hill and planning new retail centers, and continuous flooding downtown despite the promises made years ago. And I never said he was comparable to Thurmond completely, I said he was beginning to.
Evidently, you are walking lockstep with the environmentalist whackos of the CCL who prefer moving traffic through established neighborhoods rather than listening to the working people of Chas who have been screaming for years to finish the beltway. If zoning is enforced, suburban development can be minimized...oh, it is interesting to note that neighborhoods and shopping centers are being built on Johns Island EVEN WITHOUT I-526 BEING BUILT. So I guess it makes sense to not build a beltway even if it ISN'T encouraging suburban development? ::)
You need to read up on the SPA. It is a state agency in terms of governance, but it is a quasi-business, meaning that it is not publically funded. It is also NOT HQ'd in Cola; the SPA HQ is on Concord Street in downtown Chas. Groseclose, the CEO, has just resigned, but he was hamstrung by NIMBYs, the ILA (union) the CCL, and state bureaucrats. These entities have prevented Chas from getting the Global Gateway terminal as well as another essential north/south interstate, plus they have interfered with the current terminal that is trying to be built on the Navy base.
Since I don't have much time, here's an article that many of you may find interesting...it shows that Charleston's real competitor for port business could be good old Jacksonville: http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/feb/02/jacksonville_wants_piece_containerport_action/
I support conservation and preservation when it is logical to do so. I support the new hotel at Marion Square, which as you know stalwart preservationist oppose. That said, I support their cause in large measure, because they created the wonderful city that is there.
You support development in EVERY instance over either natural or historic preservation. No, I am not willing to sacrifice historic structures for a Taco Bell, that can just as easily go elsewhere, or even go in the historic structure.
The residents of John's Island overwhelmingly oppose the extention of I-526. Likewise so do many Charlestonians elsewhere. The Seabrook/Kiawah Islanders are the only ones monolithicly in favor of it. After a half century of sprawl run amok, it time we did things DIFFERENTLY.
Virtually all of the development on John's Island has been INSIDE the urban growth beltway. Bring thousands of additional autos onto the island (via I-526) will put tremendous development pressures on the rural parts of John's Island. That's why the emphasis should be on find a way to move the existing traffic better, rather than ADDING a huge source of NEW traffic to the island, which extending I-526 would do.
As for Citadel mall, enclosed malls are going the way of the dinoseur everywhere. What happened to Downtowns 40 years ago is now happening to enclosed malls. Have you been to Regency mall in Jax or Columbia Mall in Columbia lately? Notice a trend? I could tell you to visit Greenville Mall, but it has been TORN DOWN, for you guessed it, a 'lifestyle' retail center. Long Savannah will bring the newest style of retail, the Lifestyle Center, to West Ashley. In short, it's a national change in customer preferences.
The SPA board is appointed by the Governor and the legislature. THEY control it. The city neither funds nor controls any aspect of the ports governace. The loss of Maerek is DIRECTLY related to the cheaper labor in Savannah. There is NO reference to conservationist/preservation being the reason for their pulling out in any published reports that I have seen.
The fact is that Savannah has been rising as a port, and Charleston declining for over a decade. Blame the ones actually in charge. The Governor and legislature have had a long and public dispute over board appointments, resulting in legal actions. Gee, do you think that might be why no one seems to be minding the store?
Quote from: Charleston native on February 04, 2009, 01:39:56 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on February 02, 2009, 12:05:52 PM
If you don't mind, attach a few links to the recent articles you mentioned.
Here are some links to show what is going on in my hometown:
http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/jan/26/proposal_rules_out_extended_highway69553/ (Riley kowtowing to the CCL by placating them with a half-ass alternative)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/dec/09/riley_other_mayors_talk_infrastructure64432/ (Instead of using the city's budget, Riley is now asking for federal dollars for drainage and schools...without even mentioning I-526, widening I-26 from terminus/US 17, walkways on other city bridges, and intersection improvements on SC 61, SC 7, US 17, and SC 171)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/nov/12/developers_unveil_plans61302/ (as Riley dabbles with tiny redevelopment projects, its northern suburb continues to grab more of the retail market through massive $750 million projects)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/nov/03/a_grand_design60242/ (now 4 years after removal, not one shovel has turned over dirt in this project due to slow, uninspired planning)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/11/n_charleston_ready_settle54169/ (Riley has neglected to annex large tracts West Ashley, causing this dispute between its northern suburbs)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/11/lighting_public_restrooms_more_parking_p54022/ (NOTHING has been done for this plan to renovate the market)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep/09/city_st_andrews_strike_revenue_deal53511/ (A ridiculous deal between the city and PSD where the PSD still gets tax revenue while the city has jurisdiction; read my comments under poster "icbmman")
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/aug/20/council_divided_on_sag51426/ (Allowing city council to spend time making asinine laws)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/jun/22/police_crack_down_on_parking_lot_parties45321/ (More asinine laws prohibiting alcohol at tailgate parties next to Riverdog and Citadel games while public drunks still ask for handouts downtown; in conjunction, the city has been aggressively prohibiting wine at its art walks)
http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/dec/19/shipping_out65559/ (Maersk pulling out of the Chas port; while this is not directly related to Riley, he is indirectly responsible with his complicit collaborations with the CCL and other environmental groups that have limited port expansion...if the port had aggressive expansion plans pushed by the mayor, Maersk would not have made the decision has hastily)
** See my previous post regarding I-526
** Charleston (population 125,000) has requested $1 billion in the stimulus. Jacksonville (population 800,000) has requested $250 million. Do I need to do the per capita math for you? Neither city will get all that it wants, but you certainly won't get what you don't ask for.
The projects requested were based on which ones are closest to being SHOVEL READY. Significant engineering and ROW acquistion would be needed on the others. Despite that, getting funding for the projects that are closer to being ready, will let the others 'move up in the queue', meaning they will start sooner than they otherwise would.
BTW, did you see where Riley's former executive assistant is now working in the White House, and will have direct input on how the stimulus will be given to cities?? Charleston's reputation for good urban design, no doubt had a hand in that coming about.
** Every project that occurs in Charleston is not going to be in Charleston proper. Summerville, Goose Creek, North Charleston and Mount Pleasant will get there share since they collectively have 3/4 of the metro population. The Long Savannah project (in Charleston proper) is many times bigger than the North Charleston project, to say nothing of the Magnolia or the Midtown projects(also in Charleston). Besides, it remains to be seen if the N. chas project will actually materialize. Remember Noisette?
** The redevelopment of the area under the old bridges has been slow, but did you notice that the STATE still holds the property title??? Would YOU spend money on something you didn't own? Are you familiar with the Bull Street property in Columbia??? The state is still holding title there, after being approved to be surplused, it is also years behind schedule. Are you seeing a pattern here? The problem isn't the plans for the property. Charleston is a national leader in revitialzation.
** Annexation. I can't believe you ACTUALLY went there. Summerville and Charleston made a deal to each annex up to the Dorchester county line. Charleston completed it's annexation, all nice and legal. Summerville missed a deadline by 12 hours, thus allowing North Charleston to prevail and annex the area in question, which isn't even in Charleston County. Yet, somehow it is Charleston's fault. HHHMMM?? You lost me on that one.
As you well know, annexation under any circumstances is difficult in SC. Despite that, Riley has fought tooth and nail to expand the city's borders. Charleston has grown through annexation from 16 square miles (smaller than Florence) to about 112 square miles today, all under Riley's watch. No mayor of any SC city, ever, comes close to that. That expansion of the tax base has allowed the city to achieve the highest credit rating available. The only SC city to do so.
** The historic Market Hall building received a major renovation not that long ago. Money doesn't grow on trees. What city hasn't had to delay projects in this economy?
** PSDs should never have existed, and are long past there usefulness. However, the city was under a court order to come to an agreement. The city cannot defy a court order. In a few years the city will receive the full amount of taxes. Slowly but surely the PSD will continue to lose it's tax base, and eventually, it will die out. Would you prefer the city stop annexing in West Ashley?
** One councilman introduced an assinine bill that didn't pass. If ONLY one of 12 councilmen is a dimwit, then Charleston is WAY ahead of the game. At least he didn't spend $10,000 on a monument to himself.
** Tailgate parties. I haven't followed the issue, and frankly don't give a rat's ass. If this follows the typical pattern, the 'crackdown' on yuppie events is required in order to legally crackdown on vagrant public drunkenness.
** Riley and the city have no control over that port. If they did, I assure you it would NOT be having these difficulties.
Quote from: stjr on February 05, 2009, 10:33:17 PM
QuoteToo bad Charleston Native already posted that exact link in this thread three days ago. :)
Yes, good find, stjr. ;-)
(I'm just sticking up for the guy cause I know what it's like to make a post and have the credit go to someone else later...lol)
Apoloiges, I missed that one. It's hard to tell from the link unless you click on what story it is. I click on many but miss a few when rushed. Interesting that the intro to the link can make a difference as to whether it gets pursued apparently. Everyone seems to have a different "hot button" ;)
LOL, no worries. I absolutely understand how that would happen. I just thought it was a hilarious "coincidence"...Lakelander's comment that served as the impetus for you to show us that article was in fact a response to that very article. :)
Very good, carry on...
Great Super Bowl shots!! Jax never looked better!
Fantastic shots! Again, thanks for sharing.
02Roadking would you mind if I made a igoogle theme from one of your pics.
Quote from: vicupstate on February 05, 2009, 11:08:09 PM
I support conservation and preservation when it is logical to do so. I support the new hotel at Marion Square, which as you know stalwart preservationist oppose. That said, I support their cause in large measure, because they created the wonderful city that is there.
You support development in EVERY instance over either natural or historic preservation. No, I am not willing to sacrifice historic structures for a Taco Bell, that can just as easily go elsewhere, or even go in the historic structure.
Wow, so much to break down, and I need to work rather than respond to this tripe. I'll try to keep it short and sweet. In this instance, your assertion is flat-out BS, and the analogy is completely disingenuous (you must be getting debate tactics from Dare). I'm actually for preservation, but in moderation, and not at the expense of encouraging business to locate downtown...in actuality, light levels of preservation should be used north of Calhoun while it is logical to preserve heavily south of Calhoun.
QuoteThe residents of John's Island overwhelmingly oppose the extention of I-526. Likewise so do many Charlestonians elsewhere. The Seabrook/Kiawah Islanders are the only ones monolithicly in favor of it. After a half century of sprawl run amok, it time we did things DIFFERENTLY.
Virtually all of the development on John's Island has been INSIDE the urban growth beltway. Bring thousands of additional autos onto the island (via I-526) will put tremendous development pressures on the rural parts of John's Island. That's why the emphasis should be on find a way to move the existing traffic better, rather than ADDING a huge source of NEW traffic to the island, which extending I-526 would do.
This is just a flat-out lie. You really have no idea what you're talking about. Read the P&C's poll on extending I-526: it was overwhelmingly supported by 70%. Most working people in Chas WANT I-526, and to keep things the same or use the city's "pitchfork" plan is utterly retarded. If you actually lived on JI or knew how many people now live on the island, you would see that there is already high levels of NEW traffic. JI is being built up without the extension, and by not building I-526, you actually think things will get better? That is just obtuse.
QuoteAs for Citadel mall, enclosed malls are going the way of the dinoseur everywhere. What happened to Downtowns 40 years ago is now happening to enclosed malls. Have you been to Regency mall in Jax or Columbia Mall in Columbia lately? Notice a trend? I could tell you to visit Greenville Mall, but it has been TORN DOWN, for you guessed it, a 'lifestyle' retail center. Long Savannah will bring the newest style of retail, the Lifestyle Center, to West Ashley. In short, it's a national change in customer preferences.
Again, you obviously don't get out much. The Village at Sandhill in Cola is stagnant with a high vacancy rate and future phases are not being constructed while the residences there are now being leased instead of offered for purchase. And yet, nobody wants to live there. Lifestyle centers are going to become a short-lived trend...at least in areas that have cold and inclement weather. Charlotte has a new Northlake Mall which is doing well, and Southpark is just booming. The bottomline is that the city and mall management control a mall's success. Ironically, Citadel and Northwoods malls are owned by CBL, the same company that owns the dying Columbia Mall.
QuoteThe SPA board is appointed by the Governor and the legislature. THEY control it. The city neither funds nor controls any aspect of the ports governace. The loss of Maerek is DIRECTLY related to the cheaper labor in Savannah. There is NO reference to conservationist/preservation being the reason for their pulling out in any published reports that I have seen.
The fact is that Savannah has been rising as a port, and Charleston declining for over a decade. Blame the ones actually in charge. The Governor and legislature have had a long and public dispute over board appointments, resulting in legal actions. Gee, do you think that might be why no one seems to be minding the store?
The city has done nothing to make things better. Yet, it has been revealed that the mayor has an agenda with downtown port land...to build more low-rise condos, hotels, and restaurants. Which will be at the expense of higher-paying port jobs. I indeed blame the board and the legislature, but keep in mind that Riley did nothing to help matters with the Global Gateway terminal, and he could have.
Long Savannah is not going to be a project like the north city's, and to say so is disingenuous. It will actually be more like Lake Carolina: a large neighborhood with many subdivisions and a gathering area (mini-downtown). It will not be a retail center like the north city's, especially since there will be no major infrastructure such as an interstate (although this would be a perfect location to place Glenn McConnell Blvd. as a spur for I-14 to be extended towards I-95 and Augusta).
If Chas had proximity to Watson Hill, why didn't it annex the property themselves instead of relying on another municipality? This collaboration with S'ville proved to be a complete debacle, and if Riley was still competent, I imagine that he would've annexed it himself.
You really are becoming an Obama drone. Renovations for the Market have been in planning stages for YEARS, regardless of the economy.
Where does it say that the city is required to placate the PSD through a court order? I want the city to continue to annex all of West Ashley...but I don't remember a court order requiring them to acquiesce to the PSD.
You should give a rat's ass about the city sticking it to law abiding citizens who want to have a couple of drinks during a tailgate or an artwalk rather than paying attention to drunks and druggies on the East Side. Other "progressive" cities like Denver, Boston, Philadelphia, and New York do not target citizens trying to enjoy a ballgame or artwalk.
Good night, I need to focus on my job than trying to convince you about Riley. It's pretty sad that while I have had good things to say about Riley, I can't even criticize things that he continually neglects or has screwed up. In essence, that means you truly have drank the Kool-Aid.
Quote from: JeffreyS on February 06, 2009, 12:46:19 PM
02Roadking would you mind if I made a igoogle theme from one of your pics.
Of course you can.