Allegedly the grapevine suggests Lavilla will be selected as the location of the UF grad campus. I think this was the better of the two options by far.
https://www.actionnewsjax.com/news/local/sources-committee-will-pick-prime-osbourn-area-upcoming-downtown-uf-graduate-campus/FHL3UT3EC5H6DAM32TC2BDQAJY/
^ Makes lots of sense. Very accessible from the interstates, the multi-modal transit center and the bridges. Walkable to Downtown venues and Brooklyn apartments and retail - all that will be very supportive of student lifestyles.
If the Osborne ever gets converted to an Amtrak station, maybe there is a rail link to Gainesville to add ;D. The convention center could become an additional asset to UF as a dedicated conference center or for expansion of its programs.
To add, if UF builds towers, they will be visible to the interstate offering free exposure to boost their brand. And, it will be at a gateway to the City which will also ensure a high profile and simultaneously boost the City's image. (A lot better than a Daily's gas station and U2C maintenance shed!)
Lastly, the City will likely give them the land for free. Khan would probably want some dollars for the Fairgrounds or some other strings that would be good for him but not necessarily appealing to UF.
The next question is, what exactly is UF intending to build here? Seems no one really knows the details.
Known about this for a while. Will be involved to ensure whatever this becomes is aligned with community goals of bringing LaVilla back the right and smart way.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 11, 2024, 10:50:34 PM
The convention center could become an additional asset to UF as a dedicated conference center or for expansion of its programs.
Time to kick that raggedy, out-dated convention center out. A nice Brightline facility could be there. Don't waste a decade waiting for a billion to move the jail either. Give Hyatt a win and move on.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 11, 2024, 10:54:22 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 11, 2024, 10:50:34 PM
The convention center could become an additional asset to UF as a dedicated conference center or for expansion of its programs.
Time to kick that raggedy, out-dated convention center out. A nice Brightline facility could be there. Don't waste a decade waiting for a billion to move the jail either. Give Hyatt a win and move on.
I would expect a major makeover to Obsorne if UF were to do this. Why wouldn't continued use of Osborne in some form be an obstacle to also having a Brightline station? Could they co-exist? Imagine conference attendees arriving from around the State by Brightline and walking right into a conference center. Not good TOD?
^Can't have all three (UF campus, intercity rail station, and PO) on that site. PO is already too small as is. If the goal is Amtrak, Brightline and eventually commuter rail, there's a lot of rail operation support space that will be needed. All the PO renovation in the world won't make it a viable convention center without screwing up the needs for the other two entities.
^ Lake, from your comment, you are implying that UF is only using the Osborne property and no other LaVilla land. Is this correct? I thought they were looking for more real estate than that and assumed PO was just a "corner" to a much larger "campus." Help me out here.
No. I'm moreso implying that the PO box that is there now is an obstacle to accommodating rail, if the goal is to also have the lion's share of UF's campus on the property. To be a competent convention center, not only would the PO need to expand, we'd also have to subsidize another Hyatt sized convention center hotel over there. If we want something like a Brightline, they likely aren't going in the old train station. A Brightline terminal would likely need to be built adjacent (like where the PO exhibition hall is) to the old train station, while the old terminal would be used by Amtrak, retail vendors, etc. There's a lot of extra track that isn't present now that would need to be added at the site as well. Plus, while a hotel would be feasible in LaVilla with a graduate campus adjacent, it doesn't need to be +500 rooms or full service. I also doubt much of what UF will do will come with some significant height. As of now, there's a 75' height limit in that section of LaVilla. I've had to opportunity to sit at the table with all of this stuff that last few years. Just don't be surprised if it doesn't make sense to keep the PO over there longterm as more things materialize.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 11, 2024, 10:50:34 PM
Lastly, the City will likely give them the land for free. Khan would probably want some dollars for the Fairgrounds or some other strings that would be good for him but not necessarily appealing to UF.
Point of clarification here for the uninformed. When it was first announced that UF was looking at Jacksonville for the campus, Shad offered up the fairgrounds for free as well as a $5M contribution regardless of where UF chose to put its campus.
^Yes. Getting land for free was going to take place with any site they selected. In LaVilla, they're likely getting 22 acres of property. Fairgrounds is only 13 acres.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UF-LaVilla-Campus/i-w4nGzFj/0/NV8K4crpbKpzJskrB9STBGfm4ws5n4FcXgcnhj5KK/X2/UF_rendering_2-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UF-LaVilla-Campus/i-b2bSFnG/0/KjGqMX5Jtsvpmgp4897PXpdpkfDbp3mdC6WnFZZ2d/X2/UF_rendering_1-X2.jpg)
HUGE for LaVilla, and for Jax.
Combined with Gateway, that's a hell of combo.
And likely exactly what Brightline would be looking for as well.
So ... the Convention Center is gone?
Are the 3 buildings between Water and Bay, east of the JTA HQ part of the UF campus?
and to follow up on Ken_FSU's post that came in while I was typing - Are any of those buildings adjacent to the FECRR train stations (esp. the one next to the Lee Street Viaduct?
Quote from: thelakelander on December 12, 2024, 01:01:50 PM
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UF-LaVilla-Campus/i-w4nGzFj/0/NV8K4crpbKpzJskrB9STBGfm4ws5n4FcXgcnhj5KK/X2/UF_rendering_2-X2.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UF-LaVilla-Campus/i-b2bSFnG/0/KjGqMX5Jtsvpmgp4897PXpdpkfDbp3mdC6WnFZZ2d/X2/UF_rendering_1-X2.jpg)
Given this site plan, it seems Gateway made a great investment buying the Interline building property
QuoteGiven this site plan, it seems Gateway made a great investment buying the Interline building property
Maybe they had more than just an idea of what the decision was going to be 8).
Looks like the convention center days will be numbered based on the renderings. Although, if this is phased, it could be years before that day arrives, if ever. I wonder if the Fair Grounds might be a new candidate for a convention center to compliment Khan's vision for that area. May be a dark horse but don't underestimate Khan.
I also don't see any clear set aside for a rail station in the future here. Lake, fill us in on that too.
Interesting that the lot north of JTA's building remains untouched. I do see there is a "for sale" sign on that parcel currently.
Pretty exciting news! Hopefully this is both a massive boon for the area (LaVilla, Brooklyn, Downtown overall, the city and even the region) and considerate of where it is. Sounds like lakelander is on top of that though.
Jake Gordon is claiming (https://x.com/jakegordon/status/1867276008921215110) that the Prime Osborn is still on the renderings but I don't think that's accurate?
To that end, the renderings look attractive, although it's 1) incredibly funny that they include the Skyway and not the U2C and 2) curious that they'd choose to stay pretty low slung while filling all the land vs considering some taller structures on a more compact footprint with room to grow. Also interesting to see two separate yet pretty large parking structures.
That one gray, non-textured building near the tracks stands out to me, I wonder if they've actually explicitly left a provision for a future rail station building (although very disappointing if the original terminal building is completely separate from that or totally dedicated to academic purposes).
I would really want to see more detail, especially in terms of the connectivity of the campus as part of the neighborhood instead of some kind of academic fortress. But exciting that this is still happening all the same. Kinda crazy that there were studies years ago suggesting a university campus here and for that to actually come to fruition.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 12, 2024, 01:50:59 PM
Looks like the convention center days will be numbered based on the renderings. Although, if this is phased, it could be years before that day arrives, if ever.
Said it didn't make sense there ;-) Just not enough land when realistically looking at the needs for each type of facility.
QuoteI wonder if the Fair Grounds might be a new candidate for a convention center to compliment Khan's vision for that area. May be a dark horse but don't underestimate Khan.
Khan may be a billionaire but that doesn't mean sticking a convention center anywhere will lead to success. The Fair Grounds also doesn't make sense for a convention center. Its even worse than the Prime Osborn site....for that particular use. Fair Grounds has some sort of mixed-use sports related infill project written all over it. Not a small exhibition hall with no large connected full service hotel.
QuoteI also don't see any clear set aside for a rail station in the future here. Lake, fill us in on that too.
How that station area is laid out is something that $1.25 million TOD grant the mayors office was awarded will figure out. But yes, that rendering does ignore the realistic needs of a functioning passenger rail terminal.
Regarding how the rendering aligns with rail, the area in yellow would be something to watch/reserve at a minimum.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Cities/Jacksonville/Development/UF-LaVilla-Campus/i-zwg2CTD/0/KVQB5dKqdf3mSvqWvxZxjCPMcLgMM8NKsqN9CrwL8/M/UF%20Station%20Site-M.jpg)
There could be multiple tracks and platforms running the length of the site along the south side of the site. So all those buildings in yellow would likely need to be elevated or not built where shown. This is some of the details that will have to be worked out as things move forward.
Just knock down the PO and figure out conventions later...
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 12, 2024, 01:50:59 PM
I wonder if the Fair Grounds might be a new candidate for a convention center to compliment Khan's vision for that area. May be a dark horse but don't underestimate Khan.
No, and no plans to consider this... although there are some people in town that do not work for the Jaguars/Kahn who think the former Flex Field adjacent to Dailys Place would somehow be a good candidate to be retrofitted for a convention center (these same people have never written a check for such a cost-prohibitive idea, either). That idea is probably worse than putting a CC on the Fairgrounds site.
Fortunately, there are those in town (who have written checks before) who believe that working with the current Hyatt owners from Singapore would offer a much better opportunity to expand what is effectively our current convention center (the Hyatt) and building out additional exhibition hall space on to the adjacent dead space.
QuoteInteresting that the lot north of JTA's building remains untouched. I do see there is a "for sale" sign on that parcel currently.
That's still JTA's property from their large land grab several decades ago. It was because of this site that their sprawling 'transportation center' was massively scaled down into what has been built today (the office building and the Greyhound station). Still no Amtrak or commuter rail as JTA never aggressively pursued funding for either, instead going after more BRT land grabs (they spent more on land acquisitions than fleet acquisitions) and later clown cars (where more money has gone from taxpayers hands to various consultants, contractors and companies that only exist due to JTA's money reallocation scheme).
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-the-jacksonville-regional-transportation-center#.U_aTNix0yUk (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-the-jacksonville-regional-transportation-center#.U_aTNix0yUk)
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-aug-is-the-jrtc-a-mistake-in-the-making#.U_aT5Cx0yUk (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-aug-is-the-jrtc-a-mistake-in-the-making#.U_aT5Cx0yUk)
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-rethinking-the-jacksonville-transportation-center#.U_aXRCx0yUk (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-rethinking-the-jacksonville-transportation-center#.U_aXRCx0yUk)
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-jta-shrinks-transportation-centers-footprint (https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-jta-shrinks-transportation-centers-footprint)
When I brought up the fair grounds for a CC, I was partially speculating and partially playing devil's advocate.
Khan is building a 4 Seasons that no one would have ever expected, especially in the location he is building it in. If he thought a line from the 4 Seasons through a Lot J entertainment district to a CC at the Fair Grounds (plus maybe another hotel or other developments) would add up to more than the sum of its parts, I would expect him to enter the fray based on his track record.
Keep in mind the Hart Bridge ramp removal was his, and only his, idea and he got that done pronto.
He thinks big picture, can finance anything he wants and doesn't take "no" for an answer often so anything is possible with him.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 12, 2024, 02:38:43 PM
To that end, the renderings look attractive, although it's 1) incredibly funny that they include the Skyway and not the U2C and 2) curious that they'd choose to stay pretty low slung while filling all the land vs considering some taller structures on a more compact footprint with room to grow. Also interesting to see two separate yet pretty large parking structures.
Of course given the land area, it may be cheaper to build outwardly but IIRC, there is a 55 foot height limit in LaVilla. Not sure if this applies to all vs just residential buildings or if the convention center is included in the LaVilla overlay, but could perhaps play a part.
Quote from: arb on December 12, 2024, 04:58:43 PM
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 12, 2024, 02:38:43 PM
To that end, the renderings look attractive, although it's 1) incredibly funny that they include the Skyway and not the U2C and 2) curious that they'd choose to stay pretty low slung while filling all the land vs considering some taller structures on a more compact footprint with room to grow. Also interesting to see two separate yet pretty large parking structures.
Of course given the land area, it may be cheaper to build outwardly but IIRC, there is a 55 foot height limit in LaVilla. Not sure if this applies to all vs just residential buildings or if the convention center is included in the LaVilla overlay, but could perhaps play a part.
^ I would think given the location of the project, the height of I-95 passing by there already and the hunger by the City to see this project through, UF could easily get a waiver or change to the 55 foot height limit. And, if there are those who want to increase density or "show off" this project to the interstate traffic, this should appeal to them as well. It would appear it may be removed/off to the side from other development in LaVilla to not overly dominate/impose on those areas, at least at some modestly higher level. Maybe Lake can fill us in more on how that could play out.
The height limit is 75 feet in LaVilla. Although, you won't get any real opposition for some density or extra height in that part of the neighborhood. Everything south of Forsyth Street was leveled decades ago. So there is not sense of place or historic scale to protect.
The site and campus buildings are great, but to me the most exciting news is the confirmation of the Semiconductor Institute. This can have huge impact on the area as a whole.
Uf says construction is to start quickly in 2025 and classes to begin in 2026 so i don't think they want to change much sounds like they're worried about something and want to jump on it immediately.
The old Interline Brands office building is something they can use to get started.
Quote from: Skybox111 on December 12, 2024, 09:07:53 PM
Uf says construction is to start quickly in 2025 and classes to begin in 2026 so i don't think they want to change much sounds like they're worried about something and want to jump on it immediately.
Northeast Florida is enjoying its most powerful representation in Tallahassee in years so if this project needs more resources, they have about a 2 year window to "milk the cow" there. My guess is they will ask for even more funding as they get going. Also, inflation likely isn't going anywhere during that time given Trump's announced policies on tariffs, tax cuts, and immigration which will, respectively, raise the cost of building materials, any financing interest and construction labor, all significant elements to building out the campus. So the sooner they start, the better. Finally, donors will want to see "action" and won't be happy if this gets drawn out any longer. Plus, Deegan will want it finished before the next Mayoral election as a signature accomplishment during this term. Lots of reasons to move this along ;D.
My question is will it be phased or all at once. For example, I find it hard to believe they will occupy the PO Convention Center real estate before the City has moved that elsewhere. That is clearly a 3 to 5+ year project if they started now. And, are the renderings representing actual plans or just place holders for what will actually be built?
Update: Found this info in the Daily Record's expanded article:
QuoteDeegan said that eventually the newer portions of the convention center, not including the historic train station, could be demolished to make way for the campus.
However, she told reporters that plans involving the demolition would be years away, allowing time for the city to develop a new convention center. likely at a site near the current Duval County jail.
"In terms of the convention center itself, that is probably 10 years down the road," she said.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 12, 2024, 09:20:56 PM
The old Interline Brands office building is something they can use to get started.
^ Found this quote in Florida Politics today:
QuoteUntil the build is complete, an existing building near the historic convention center will be used for classes, representing a change of plans from previous proposals that contemplated the JEA tower as temporary home for the fledgling campus.
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/711747-jacksonvilles-uf-campus-lands-in-lavilla/
And this from the Daily Record expanded article:
QuoteUF followed up by negotiating with JEA for a short-term lease of space on the fifth floor of the municipal utility's headquarters building at 225 N. Pearl St.
A JEA spokeswoman said Dec. 11 that no agreement had been reached.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 11, 2024, 10:50:34 PM
^ Makes lots of sense. Very accessible from the interstates, the multi-modal transit center and the bridges. Walkable to Downtown venues and Brooklyn apartments and retail - all that will be very supportive of student lifestyles...
....To add, if UF builds towers, they will be visible to the interstate offering free exposure to boost their brand. And, it will be at a gateway to the City which will also ensure a high profile and simultaneously boost the City's image. (A lot better than a Daily's gas station and U2C maintenance shed!)..
Above post aligns well with UF's explanation for picking LaVilla ;D:
Quote....Kurt Dudas, UF vice president for strategic initiatives, told committee members that the president's office recommended the Prime Osborn site based partly on its proximity to interstates 10 and 95 and to businesses in Brooklyn and the Downtown core.
Other reasons included the nearby availability of public transportation out of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's headquarters, and the presence of public amenities such as Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing Park and the Emerald Trail Model Mile...
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/dec/12/lavilla-site-selected-for-new-university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-semiconductor-institute/
So what is the actual plan for the convention center? The city better get going on that since we've now basically promised that land to UF (which is great).
Additional color:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/dec/12/lavilla-site-selected-for-new-university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-semiconductor-institute/
QuoteDeegan said that eventually the newer portions of the convention center, not including the historic train station, could be demolished to make way for the campus.
However, she told reporters that plans involving the demolition would be years away, allowing time for the city to develop a new convention center. likely at a site near the current Duval County jail.
"In terms of the convention center itself, that is probably 10 years down the road," she said.
"You'll have another mayor to beat up on, probably, by that time."
I'd it a convention center at the Jail would take 10 years, but someone needs to intervene with Deegan about the old Courthouse/City Hall site. Do that now and the expand over there as demand increases for space.
I can't think of one reason why LaVilla should have a height limit.
Quote from: Steve on December 13, 2024, 07:53:05 AM
Additional color:
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/dec/12/lavilla-site-selected-for-new-university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-semiconductor-institute/
QuoteDeegan said that eventually the newer portions of the convention center, not including the historic train station, could be demolished to make way for the campus.
However, she told reporters that plans involving the demolition would be years away, allowing time for the city to develop a new convention center. likely at a site near the current Duval County jail.
"In terms of the convention center itself, that is probably 10 years down the road," she said.
"You'll have another mayor to beat up on, probably, by that time."
I'd it a convention center at the Jail would take 10 years, but someone needs to intervene with Deegan about the old Courthouse/City Hall site. Do that now and the expand over there as demand increases for space.
A convention center at the jail would realistically take every bit of 10 years, which is the problem. If UF is talking about developing a campus like what is show in that rendering the city needs to expedite getting the convention center moved.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 13, 2024, 07:55:15 AM
I can't think of one reason why LaVilla should have a height limit.
Agreed. I understand the neighborhoods history and my grandmother was even a part of the last graduating class from Old Stanton but it's a vital connection between the Northbank and Brooklyn as well as the gateway to Downtown. I don't think dense development over 75 feet in height and building context sensitive projects that respect the history of the neighborhood are mutually exclusive of each other.
Also interesting tidbit from the Daily Record article:
QuoteUF says enrollment at the fully built-out campus could reach 20,000 or more.
20,000 students would be huge and is double the 10k number they mentioned previously. That's larger than UNF's current enrollment and shows UF has grander visions for this campus than what they initially let on.
I'm very pleased with the amount of development taking place along the path of the Emerald Trail. In terms of major announced projects, we have the UF campus, Union Terminal Warehouse, the Phoenix Arts District, Gateway Jax along the Hogan St Connector, One Riverside, Artist Walk, and the continued progress along McCoys Creek that should be a boon for North Riverside
Quote from: acme54321 on December 13, 2024, 08:45:57 AMA convention center at the jail would realistically take every bit of 10 years, which is the problem. If UF is talking about developing a campus like what is show in that rendering the city needs to expedite getting the convention center moved.
Even ten years sounds optimistic without a set plan in place to build a new jail, relocate inmates, demolish the prison, ready the land for redevelopment, RFP a partner, design the convention center, and build it out. Financing a brand new convention center at the jail site would be every bit as problematic as the timeline giving our commitments to the stadium, jail relocation, pension funds, septic tank phaseouts, CBA, parks, UF, Sports & Entertainment complex, etc.
It's also unfair to hoteliers handing over bed taxes to abandon the convention business for a few years while we sort out a new build.
The expansion of exhibition space at the Hyatt that's been discussed here for years is clearly the smartest, most cost-efficient, most market-appropriate solution at the moment. We can re-address in 20 years once we see where the riverfront nets out and have a better understand of what longer term demand looks like for convention space in Jax.
This is potentially the biggest thing to happen to Downtown since the Jaguars came and could easily end up surpassing that. As someone else said, getting the semiconductor institute is huge and can lead to all kinds of spinoff economic development. JaxUSA should be going into Daniel Plainview mode and drinking California/Silicon Valley's milkshake. Cut the sleepy old southern town folksiness and start going absolutely bonkers with recruiting efforts. Don't do the Jax thing and just be content with UF. No tie goes to the runner level of mindset. Swing for the fences.
The same way it was easy for Gateway to assemble land and UF to get free land from the City, it should also be easy to recruit complementary businesses to Downtown's EXTREMELY affordable and available existing office stock with 26.1% vacancy and average rents of 23$ per sf. The only issue is not having the type of Class AAA, AA, and A+ trophy properties that a lot of the big players want. I'm not familiar with DIA's suite of incentives, but if they do not have incentives for interior office upgrades, they should seriously consider that.
JaxUSA or COJ should also consider hiring someone with direct ties to Silicon Valley and/or similar tech/research hubs around the country to solely focus on business recruitment. Not your typical politically connected Jax hire, but an outsider with direct connections and expertise. Pay them $250k+ a year and give them the tools to make it happen. It should more than pay for itself. It's also a super easy sell. In addition to the favorable office market, the city has an incredibly affordable historic housing stock nearby in Springfield, Riverside, San Marco, etc. In Springfield you can still buy what would be considered a mansion in Silicon Valley for $500-$600k. The same houses would go for $2-$3 million in Silicon Valley. The political climate is also very favorable...
Leveraging the new campus to get Brightline would be the chef's kiss.
Quote from: vicupstate on December 13, 2024, 07:55:15 AM
I can't think of one reason why LaVilla should have a height limit.
I also can't think of one reason why suburban gas stations should be allowed east of I-95 in LaVilla!
Regarding height, the only pocket I can see where design considerations should be thoughtful, would be in the immediate vicinity of Broad & Ashley Streets. That's the one remaining spot where there's still a decent amount of prominent historic structures like the Masonic Temple, CWM Mission, Stanton, Richmond Hotel, etc. That 75' range would be consistent with structures like the Masonic Temple. Infill should the thoughtful and link with the neighborhood's character throughout, but height limits aren't necesary, as long as the spaces are pedestrian centric at ground level.
Quote from: CityLife on December 13, 2024, 10:34:10 AM
JaxUSA or COJ should also consider hiring someone with direct ties to Silicon Valley and/or similar tech/research hubs around the country to solely focus on business recruitment. Not your typical politically connected Jax hire, but an outsider with direct connections and expertise. Pay them $250k+ a year and give them the tools to make it happen. It should more than pay for itself. It's also a super easy sell. In addition to the favorable office market, the city has an incredibly affordable historic housing stock nearby in Springfield, Riverside, San Marco, etc. In Springfield you can still buy what would be considered a mansion in Silicon Valley for $500-$600k. The same houses would go for $2-$3 million in Silicon Valley. The political climate is also very favorable...
Already tried. They made it pretty clear they aren't interested. Maybe time will change that.
God, I hated the potential of this going to the Sports Complex.
I'd agree, send the convention center to the Hyatt land asap to fill that in and hopefully this also removes uncertainty from the Jags plans for mixed use too and they can push ahead with something more appropriate for that area.
The additional information from the Daily Record answers my earlier question about the buildings between the JTC/JTA HQ and the Interline building. They are part of the UF Campus, and the Interline Building may be the "starter" campus.
Quote
In a question-and-answer session at City Hall with reporters after the committee's vote, Deegan said the initial conveyance would involve two vacant city-owned properties next to the convention center.
Additional properties
Deegan said UF was working to secure a property other than those two, possibly an existing building, where it would begin offering classes in the fall of 2026.
The now-vacant lots on the west side of Lee Street are used for overflow parking for large events at the Prime.
Quote
Deegan said that eventually the newer portions of the convention center, not including the historic train station, could be demolished to make way for the campus.
However, she told reporters that plans involving the demolition would be years away, allowing time for the city to develop a new convention center. likely at a site near the current Duval County jail.
"In terms of the convention center itself, that is probably 10 years down the road," she said.
Does "10 years down the road" also apply to the convention center parking lot? It seems that would severely restrict development of the campus. I can see UF starting development with the most remote part of the parking lot, the 3 acres between I-95 and the entrance driveway. But, will UF want to wait 10 years to develop the 4+ acres between the driveway and the PO building?
And, speaking of PO, what about the former West Bay Post Office site? It is owned by "VC CATHEDRAL LLC". It is about 2.12 acres with 480 feet of frontage on Bay Street, starting at that same driveway and moving east to just behind the Convention Center building, It is hard to tell from the UF renderings if it is included, but (to my eyes) it appears to be shown as trees.
I'd caution to not lean too much into some of what came out in the recent press releases.
20k students means they would double their current graduate enrollment, and standing up that much in-person enrollment in ten years is.... very optimistic. Some of the 'degree' programs mentioned are also very clearly not fleshed out. I still don't know what a 'Masters in the Study of Law' is? LLM and MLS degree programs already require JDs and aren't some robust enrollment bonanza (I think University of Miami's MLS program is mostly remote and mostly international students, for example). Much of the degree programs will be fleshed out over the next several years depending on what kind of sources of funding UF gets.
The semiconductor institute actually received CHIPs money and is therefore more fleshed out than some of these ambiguous AI finance and medical avenues of study (for lack of a better term). The SI is likely phase 1 of any new construction tied this campus, and that likely won't break ground for another 3 years or so.
As Lakelander mentioned, the Interline Brands building will be where initial students within UF's existing graduate degree programs will go for the next 5 years, with additional degrees added slowly over the next 10 years (likely still mostly within the Interline footprint).
If you've been following this forum for any length of time, you probably would have picked up various tea leaves discussed here about this. This UF campus has been pushed behind the scenes by those like John Rood and Gary Chartrand for a very long time now. The LaVillas 'Master Plan' that RummelMunz put together in 2019 was essentially a roadmap provided by those same behind the scene parties to eventually get to this outcome. That 'plan' included weird claims about retail and essentially provided cover for not putting up LaVilla parcels out for RFPs until now.
Its why local investors purchased property next to the Prime Osborne, and partially (among other reasons) why Vestcor is extending political will towards allowing for the conversion of affordable housing projects into market-rate after 15 years (as an example).
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 13, 2024, 02:05:49 PM
And, speaking of PO, what about the former West Bay Post Office site? It is owned by "VC CATHEDRAL LLC". It is about 2.12 acres with 480 feet of frontage on Bay Street, starting at that same driveway and moving east to just behind the Convention Center building, It is hard to tell from the UF renderings if it is included, but (to my eyes) it appears to be shown as trees.
That's Vestcor. See my response above.
It should be pretty clear to those paying attention that the first phase of new construction (very likely the Semiconductor Institute) will include the COJ-owned lot that housed the former Crane building across from the Prime Osborn/JRTC. There's a reason why DIA outright rejected unsolicited proposals on this very site five years ago. I don't think you'll see any redevelopment activity on the actual PO site for quite some time.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Florida-State-Archives/i-drQgFzM/0/6eae85c3/L/Maps2_Page_20-L.jpg)
Is Chris Malachowsky involved in the SI?
Quote from: fieldafm on December 13, 2024, 02:21:46 PM
Its why local investors purchased property next to the Prime Osborne, and partially (among other reasons) why Vestcor is extending political will towards allowing for the conversion of affordable housing projects into market-rate after 15 years (as an example).
Of course, VC = Vestcor. The "Cathedral" part of the owner's name threw me off. According to the Property Appraiser, VC bought the site in late 2019.
Quote from: Charles Hunter on December 13, 2024, 02:38:13 PM
According to the Property Appraiser, VC bought the site in late 2019.
Again, see above :) They signed a purchase agreement for that site several years before, about the same time the behind-the-scenes lobbying for the UF campus started.
Quote from: fieldafm on December 13, 2024, 02:24:02 PM
It should be pretty clear to those paying attention that the first phase of new construction (very likely the Semiconductor Institute) will include the COJ-owned lot that housed the former Crane building across from the Prime Osborn/JRTC. There's a reason why DIA outright rejected unsolicited proposals on this very site five years ago. I don't think you'll see any redevelopment activity on the actual PO site for quite some time.
(https://photos.moderncities.com/Cities/Jacksonville/History/Florida-State-Archives/i-drQgFzM/0/6eae85c3/L/Maps2_Page_20-L.jpg)
In terms of development phasing, this is a good approach. Let's fill in the large dead parcels between Bay and Forsyth, straddling Lee. The PO parking lot is out-of-site, out of mind. It also allows for time to figure the rail support needs, requirements and logistics on that parcel before gobbling up the opportunity with poor placement of future structures.
A bit more info from the Florida Times-Union on providing for a rail station at PO:
Quote...Deegan envisions that historic structure having restaurants, offices and similar uses along the lines of how Denver brought activity to its Union Station. The city will keep land next to the terminal to possibly build a future train station for passenger rail service.
The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Jacksonville a $1.25 million grant in September for exploring a return of the site into being the rail station is once was while connecting it to other transit options. Deegan has called it an "exciting opportunity to restore the Prime Osborn to its glory."...
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/13/uf-campus-jacksonville-prime-osborn-convention-center-future/76951061007/
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 13, 2024, 10:29:05 PM
A bit more info from the Florida Times-Union on providing for a rail station at PO:
Quote...Deegan envisions that historic structure having restaurants, offices and similar uses along the lines of how Denver brought activity to its Union Station. The city will keep land next to the terminal to possibly build a future train station for passenger rail service.
The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Jacksonville a $1.25 million grant in September for exploring a return of the site into being the rail station is once was while connecting it to other transit options. Deegan has called it an "exciting opportunity to restore the Prime Osborn to its glory."...
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/13/uf-campus-jacksonville-prime-osborn-convention-center-future/76951061007/
Yes! This is a capacity grant that'll allow us to bring on staff focused on the train station project. The bill to distribute those dollars is moving forward very soon. It's one of the things I'm especially excited about.
Quote from: Tacachale on December 13, 2024, 11:49:42 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 13, 2024, 10:29:05 PM
A bit more info from the Florida Times-Union on providing for a rail station at PO:
Quote...Deegan envisions that historic structure having restaurants, offices and similar uses along the lines of how Denver brought activity to its Union Station. The city will keep land next to the terminal to possibly build a future train station for passenger rail service.
The U.S. Department of Transportation awarded Jacksonville a $1.25 million grant in September for exploring a return of the site into being the rail station is once was while connecting it to other transit options. Deegan has called it an "exciting opportunity to restore the Prime Osborn to its glory."...
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/12/13/uf-campus-jacksonville-prime-osborn-convention-center-future/76951061007/
Yes! This is a capacity grant that'll allow us to bring on staff focused on the train station project. The bill to distribute those dollars is moving forward very soon. It's one of the things I'm especially excited about.
Please, please, please, don't give the study grant money to JTA. Let the City hire its own consultant, excluding any working for JTA.
You guys think UGA cares one way or another about this in terms of plausibly considering FL/GA a neutral site?
My guess is no, they're just looking at the $$$, but it will be an interesting wrinkle in the discussion.
Quote from: Ken_FSU on December 16, 2024, 09:04:28 AM
You guys think UGA cares one way or another about this in terms of plausibly considering FL/GA a neutral site?
My guess is no, they're just looking at the $$$, but it will be an interesting wrinkle in the discussion.
It's a nice recruiting tool, too, since NE Florida has lots of prospects. As a Gator, I'm excited to see this take shape.
I guess Palm Beach County got a $520 million consolation prize after losing out to Jax on UF. Looks like Vanderbilt will be building a campus there that sounds like it mimics some of UF's intentions, albeit quite a bit less ambitious based on their plans. Not sure why their numbers are higher than UF's $300 million for a much bigger campus but figure there is some hype involved to get everyone's blessing and/or UF will be spending a lot more than they start with.
Wonder if this is now a thing in the world of universities.
QuoteVanderbilt University gets approval for $520M Florida graduate campus
*Vanderbilt University on Tuesday secured approval to build a $519.6 million, 300,000-square-foot graduate campus in West Palm Beach, Florida, that could start hosting classes by 2026.
*County commissioners voted unanimously in favor of the Tennessee-based private university's expansion in the area. As part of the plan, the county would donate 5 acres of land worth $46 million.
*The added campus would expand Vanderbilt's graduate business school and include programming in artificial intelligence and data science as well as an innovation hub to connect the university with entrepreneurial activity in the area.
...In total, Vanderbilt expects the campus to have 1,000 students and over 100 faculty...
https://www.highereddive.com/news/vanderbilt-university-approval-520m-florida-west-palm-beach-graduate-campus/730825/
And..QuotePalm Beach unanimously approves land deal for Vanderbilt's new business and tech campus
In a unanimous vote on Oct. 22, the Palm Beach County Commission approved a deal to provide five acres of county-owned land to Vanderbilt for the development of a new campus in West Palm Beach. For several months, Vanderbilt has been in discussions with city and county officials and community and business leaders about establishing a presence in West Palm Beach to complement the region's booming financial and tech sectors. The affirmative vote by the county, along with two acres already pledged by the City of West Palm Beach, paves the way for the university to establish a new campus in South Florida focused on graduate programs in business, computing and engineering, bringing high-impact graduate education to what has become known as "Wall Street South."...
...Once operational, the West Palm Beach campus will welcome nearly 1,000 students in various business programs—such as an executive MBA and master's in finance—and in engineering and computing-focused fields such as artificial intelligence, data science, and computer science....
...Vanderbilt also plans to create an innovation hub on the campus that would connect local entrepreneurs with academic programming and research and create opportunities for collaboration with Vanderbilt faculty and students. This innovation hub would offer programs and opportunities for people in Palm Beach County and let the Vanderbilt community tap into South Florida's burgeoning innovation ecosystem....
....If approved, the university's vision for the campus is an expansion of the Owen Graduate School of Management, with a focus on finance, real estate and fintech....
....The campus in West Palm Beach would also offer graduate-level education in engineering, computing, data science and AI....
....A third-party analysis by the economic research firm TXP projects that the campus will generate an estimated $7 billion in economic activity and create approximately 35,000 jobs over its first 25 years...
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2024/10/28/palm-beach-unanimously-approves-land-deal-for-vanderbilts-new-business-and-tech-campus/
Vandy in West Palm Coast would actually compete with top tier Universities like GA Tech & I'm not sure I see this a consolation at all. Vanderbilt is a very established engineering school - unlike UF which is now in the mix of top engineering schools. Also... WPB... I mean top tier location.
A lot of schools nationwide have now realized, 10 years late, that their engineering programs aren't set up to compete with the international labor pool in East Asia, India, Eastern Europe. They quite literally passed the CHIPS act because we have seen declining market control YoY for more than a decade in the overall industry. That is mainly due to the fact that other countries are investing heavily into materials, packaging & product design... which are skills that are arguably more important than having a masters in "AI" &/or "Semiconductors."
The future of the industry is having the management & project leaders domestic - with less important tasks & manufacturing being nearly 100% outsourced abroad.. another example of American Manufacturing being completely ripped out from under us (Anybody ever heard of Nvidia? Lol). These schools are unfortunately too late to impact high-tech.
I have no doubt these schools will positively impact hundreds, if not thousands of people... just don't expect any high-tech industry to follow these announcements. If there is: 1). Shocking & 2). We can all be happy we got something more substantial out of this.
West Palm Beach didn't really lose UF to Jax as much as UF blew a golden opportunity there. There were 2 billionaire developers (Stephen Ross and Jeff Greene) fighting over land and naming rights to the new school. Greene also wanted a clawback on land he was donating if UF didn't maintain a certain number of students (I believe 1k). UF started looking at Jax and Stephen Ross got mad and started reaching out to elite out of state private schools. NYU was considered, as they are currently building a 200k square foot hospital in Downtown WPB and I heard some Ivy's were also looked at, but Vandy was the best fit.
Ross recently retired from and sold his equity in Related Companies, but spun out all of his WPB projects into his new company Related Ross. He also sold 13% of his share in the Dolphins. He's one of the best developers in the world, is cash flush, and is all in on WPB with one new office building recently completed, one nearly done, 3 more coming soon, and others in the works; plus some new high rise resi projects. https://www.relatedross.com/office He also owns CityPlace is right in the middle of most of his projects and it is undergoing a huge transformation with a lot of cool stuff (including an Eataly). UF made a huge mistake not piggybacking on all of his success, connections, and continued growth. Getting an elite university to offer grad programs with synergies with the businesses he is recruiting has always been a real estate play for Ross. That's why he has committed so much money and fundraised amongst his network. UF could have had it all, but ultimately, Vandy should make out like a king.
Some UF alumni in the real estate development world in South Florida I know are baffled at UF's decision to not play ball in West Palm Beach. There is some speculation that it was cost of living and cost of land related. Essentially, there is no way for anyone in UF's network to make money from the campus coming since Ross and other developers already own all nearby land...
As I've said in the other thread about this topic before, I'm glad this happened as an FSU grad and Jax native. A UF campus in WPB would have opened up all kinds of doors to mega donors and heavy hitting businesses and significantly increased it's national prestige. And ultimately, the Jax campus can save downtown. IMO, it's downtown Jacksonville and the urban core's last hope for long term financial sustainability.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 25, 2024, 09:05:27 PM
I guess Palm Beach County got a $520 million consolation prize after losing out to Jax on UF. Looks like Vanderbilt will be building a campus there that sounds like it mimics some of UF's intentions, albeit quite a bit less ambitious based on their plans. Not sure why their numbers are higher than UF's $300 million for a much bigger campus but figure there is some hype involved to get everyone's blessing and/or UF will be spending a lot more than they start with.
My guess is that UF's renderings are not a $300 million campus, but more like a billion dollars after future phases. Vanderbilt might be doing more upfront but less than in UF's renderings.
Quote from: CityLife on December 26, 2024, 11:08:34 AM
West Palm Beach didn't really lose UF to Jax as much as UF blew a golden opportunity there. There were 2 billionaire developers (Stephen Ross and Jeff Greene) fighting over land and naming rights to the new school. Greene also wanted a clawback on land he was donating if UF didn't maintain a certain number of students (I believe 1k). UF started looking at Jax and Stephen Ross got mad and started reaching out to elite out of state private schools. NYU was considered, as they are currently building a 200k square foot hospital in Downtown WPB and I heard some Ivy's were also looked at, but Vandy was the best fit.
Ross recently retired from and sold his equity in Related Companies, but spun out all of his WPB projects into his new company Related Ross. He also sold 13% of his share in the Dolphins. He's one of the best developers in the world, is cash flush, and is all in on WPB with one new office building recently completed, one nearly done, 3 more coming soon, and others in the works; plus some new high rise resi projects. https://www.relatedross.com/office He also owns CityPlace is right in the middle of most of his projects and it is undergoing a huge transformation with a lot of cool stuff (including an Eataly). UF made a huge mistake not piggybacking on all of his success, connections, and continued growth. Getting an elite university to offer grad programs with synergies with the businesses he is recruiting has always been a real estate play for Ross. That's why he has committed so much money and fundraised amongst his network. UF could have had it all, but ultimately, Vandy should make out like a king.
Some UF alumni in the real estate development world in South Florida I know are baffled at UF's decision to not play ball in West Palm Beach. There is some speculation that it was cost of living and cost of land related. Essentially, there is no way for anyone in UF's network to make money from the campus coming since Ross and other developers already own all nearby land...
As I've said in the other thread about this topic before, I'm glad this happened as an FSU grad and Jax native. A UF campus in WPB would have opened up all kinds of doors to mega donors and heavy hitting businesses and significantly increased it's national prestige. And ultimately, the Jax campus can save downtown. IMO, it's downtown Jacksonville and the urban core's last hope for long term financial sustainability.
I mean this sounds like UF didn't have nearly as much to gain from WPB as Ross did, and it's not exactly their job to enrich a billionaire. And clearly they didn't find whatever other benefits worth the squeeze.
My hot take is that this campus is of course a promising development, but there's nothing preventing Jax in classic Jax fashion from failing to benefit from it. This could easily end as half of LaVilla becoming an academic fortress while the rest of the urban core barely changes. And at the same time, there's no guarantee that Downtown could not have continued to develop without the campus (which remember, didn't seem to be happening for some time). Winning the campus is not the end-all be-all, you still have to sell people on coming here. There's still work to do to make this and all of Downtown and the urban core a success.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 26, 2024, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 25, 2024, 09:05:27 PM
I guess Palm Beach County got a $520 million consolation prize after losing out to Jax on UF. Looks like Vanderbilt will be building a campus there that sounds like it mimics some of UF's intentions, albeit quite a bit less ambitious based on their plans. Not sure why their numbers are higher than UF's $300 million for a much bigger campus but figure there is some hype involved to get everyone's blessing and/or UF will be spending a lot more than they start with.
My guess is that UF's renderings are not a $300 million campus, but more like a billion dollars after future phases. Vanderbilt might be doing more upfront but less than in UF's renderings.
The renderings are fluff at this point. No real analysis or working with the community and other impacted stakeholders yet to shape what will ultimately go up on the property. I can glance at the railside and know right off the bat, if the mayor really wants to see rail return to the Prime Osborn, some of those buildings in the rendering will either need to disappear or be built over future rail sidings and support buildings. However, creating a station area plan is what the $1.25 million rail grant is all about. So that plan will shape what happens with long term intill TOD (UF's buildings) on the Prime Osborn property. Plus, if I understand right, the semiconductor institute comes with a pot of its own funding. Some of the earliest construction will likely be related to it.
QuoteMy hot take is that this campus is of course a promising development, but there's nothing preventing Jax in classic Jax fashion from failing to benefit from it. This could easily end as half of LaVilla becoming an academic fortress while the rest of the urban core barely changes.
Can't speak for all of downtown but can pretty much guarantee it won't be the same ole, same ole in LaVilla. The community is engaged, and expects to continue having a seat at the decision-making table......or flipping the table over if things go sideways. The ground is too sacred to let another Brooklyn or 1990s River City Renaissance fiasco go down. As of now, UF's plans are in alignment for the train station site to once again be LaVilla's primary economic engine with a level of density greater than Daily's gas stations, strip malls in Brooklyn and landscaped surface parking lots in the Northbank.
QuoteAnd at the same time, there's no guarantee that Downtown could not have continued to develop without the campus (which remember, didn't seem to be happening for some time). Winning the campus is not the end-all be-all, you still have to sell people on coming here. There's still work to do to make this and all of Downtown and the urban core a success.
I agree. There's no such thing as a one trick pony project. There's a ton of stuff going on, much of which isn't out publicly at the moment. Things are very different than what was the typical 5, 10, 15 years ago. The key will be to make sure everything swims in the same direction. That hasn't been the case in the past with downtown.
Lake, I know it's been a sort of side discussion on this thread as a consequence of the site choice but is there any wider desire amongst those involved to perhaps shift the CC over to the Hyatt?
The Ford on Bay and the mess with the Hyatt control over that land is another noose around the cities neck. It's a no brainer to me at this point. Please tell me it's not just message board chit chat!?
^I don't think the idea of the Hyatt is dead. There's been conversation outside of message board chit chat. I think the conversation of possibilities will heat up as the UF and return rail to the Prime Osborn talk begins to pick up steam.
That is good to hear. Much more rational way forward.
Quote from: marcuscnelson on December 26, 2024, 12:44:44 PM
Quote from: CityLife on December 26, 2024, 11:08:34 AM
West Palm Beach didn't really lose UF to Jax as much as UF blew a golden opportunity there. There were 2 billionaire developers (Stephen Ross and Jeff Greene) fighting over land and naming rights to the new school. Greene also wanted a clawback on land he was donating if UF didn't maintain a certain number of students (I believe 1k). UF started looking at Jax and Stephen Ross got mad and started reaching out to elite out of state private schools. NYU was considered, as they are currently building a 200k square foot hospital in Downtown WPB and I heard some Ivy's were also looked at, but Vandy was the best fit.
Ross recently retired from and sold his equity in Related Companies, but spun out all of his WPB projects into his new company Related Ross. He also sold 13% of his share in the Dolphins. He's one of the best developers in the world, is cash flush, and is all in on WPB with one new office building recently completed, one nearly done, 3 more coming soon, and others in the works; plus some new high rise resi projects. https://www.relatedross.com/office He also owns CityPlace is right in the middle of most of his projects and it is undergoing a huge transformation with a lot of cool stuff (including an Eataly). UF made a huge mistake not piggybacking on all of his success, connections, and continued growth. Getting an elite university to offer grad programs with synergies with the businesses he is recruiting has always been a real estate play for Ross. That's why he has committed so much money and fundraised amongst his network. UF could have had it all, but ultimately, Vandy should make out like a king.
Some UF alumni in the real estate development world in South Florida I know are baffled at UF's decision to not play ball in West Palm Beach. There is some speculation that it was cost of living and cost of land related. Essentially, there is no way for anyone in UF's network to make money from the campus coming since Ross and other developers already own all nearby land...
As I've said in the other thread about this topic before, I'm glad this happened as an FSU grad and Jax native. A UF campus in WPB would have opened up all kinds of doors to mega donors and heavy hitting businesses and significantly increased it's national prestige. And ultimately, the Jax campus can save downtown. IMO, it's downtown Jacksonville and the urban core's last hope for long term financial sustainability.
I mean this sounds like UF didn't have nearly as much to gain from WPB as Ross did, and it's not exactly their job to enrich a billionaire. And clearly they didn't find whatever other benefits worth the squeeze.
My hot take is that this campus is of course a promising development, but there's nothing preventing Jax in classic Jax fashion from failing to benefit from it. This could easily end as half of LaVilla becoming an academic fortress while the rest of the urban core barely changes. And at the same time, there's no guarantee that Downtown could not have continued to develop without the campus (which remember, didn't seem to be happening for some time). Winning the campus is not the end-all be-all, you still have to sell people on coming here. There's still work to do to make this and all of Downtown and the urban core a success.
The mere fact that Ross/WPB was able to bring in a more prestigious school like Vanderbilt shows that they didn't need UF as badly as UF needed them. Your own skepticism about the likelihood of the UF Jax campus succeeding basically reinforces my above post as well. Ross doesn't fail. He's too connected and too big to fail. He doesn't need UF to make him rich. He's worth $17 billion. He's already been incredibly successful in the past 5 years recruiting bigtime tenants to his WPB office project's. His most recent one is fully leased at rates between $100-140 a square foot, all to the exact type of tenants that both the UF and Vandy campus want to partner with. Related Ross recently announced they are bringing in a yet to be named Silicon Valley company with 25k new employees. Meanwhile DT Jax is leaking tenants at rates of $20-25 a square foot.
I can't explain in less than 50,000 words how many more things are happening in DT WPB than Jax and how much more wealth and access to donations and capital there are there and in Palm Beach. UF was only getting $50 million from Ross to come to WPB initially, but someone that knows Ross told me they would have ultimately gotten donations similar to or even more than what Michigan has gotten from him ($500 million). With all of the other billionaires, investment banks, private equity groups around, the possibilities for UF were limitless. Time will tell, but I feel very confident that UF made a massive mistake. But fortunately for Jax, the transition from Fuchs to Sasse killed any hope of the WPB campus happening.
UF and Jax can still make a successful campus, but as you said that will require some success from COJ, Chamber, etc. As I said in another post in the thread, it's time for Jax to get to work and go bonkers with recruiting complementary businesses to partner with UF and to create a desirable place for UF students/professors. There are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla. However, there is a blank slate, with good bones, cheap land, cheap office space, and some cool nearby neighborhoods. If DT Jax can't succeed with this golden opportunity, I truly don't see how it ever can in the future.
^As a Dolphins fan, I'd wish Ross would succeed there. Unfortunately, all the money in the world hasn't resulted in much on the field.
Quote from: thelakelander on December 29, 2024, 08:18:59 PM
^As a Dolphins fan, I'd wish Ross would succeed there. Unfortunately, all the money in the world hasn't resulted in much on the field.
If owning a football team was the same as developing real estate, I'm sure he would have been an incredibly successful owner. Especially if he had similar financial advantages over his competition and there wasn't a salary cap. But alas, he's only the 10th wealthiest owner and can't spend freely over the others due to the salary cap.
QuoteThere are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla.
Actually, we could have one in Khan but I doubt he would step up in the same way as you describe. We do have some billionaire families in Jax but I don't think they are in the league with Ross and Khan. A billion isn't what it used to be as they say... ;D. (And, even if they were, I don't see them playing this role unless they are in love with UF.)
We do have one precedent for a very wealthy family bringing a major project to Jacksonville (exclusive of the Weavers bringing us the Jags) and that is the Davis Family being responsible for Mayo Clinic being here. So, anything is possible, I guess.
^Luckily LaVilla doesn't need a billionare to guarantee success. Money or access to capital has never been LaVilla's struggle. If anything, "outside" money used wrong led to its 1990s urban renewal.
^+1. Most great places aren't built by billionaires, which comes with its own pricetag. Better to work with what you've got.
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 30, 2024, 12:40:08 AM
QuoteThere are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla.
Actually, we could have one in Khan but I doubt he would step up in the same way as you describe.
He is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the stadium district in downtown already. He's already putting his money where his mouth is to develop Jacksonville and bring in Jacksonville's first 5 star hotel.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 30, 2024, 09:49:51 AM
Quote from: jaxlongtimer on December 30, 2024, 12:40:08 AM
QuoteThere are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla.
Actually, we could have one in Khan but I doubt he would step up in the same way as you describe.
He is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the stadium district in downtown already. He's already putting his money where his mouth is to develop Jacksonville and bring in Jacksonville's first 5 star hotel.
Quite so, and much more is coming.
Quote from: CityLife on December 29, 2024, 05:07:16 PM
Related Ross recently announced they are bringing in a yet to be named Silicon Valley company with 25k new employees.
Very interesting. Hopefully more than a satellite office...
Amtrak pulled out after 30 years of development millions wasted if they did that to miami that has more density and a larger airport than ours than it's probably best not to have amtrak here or anyone else. Jacksonville is small even if downtown got built out there still isn't a huge demand for passenger rail and not many people will consider using it than taking a plane and getting there faster. Just like people living in downtown where retail and grocery are close by blocks and blocks no-one would care much to use transit and will just walk or bike. Maybe the elderly and handicapped but less of them compared to thousands each day that is needed to make a profit to keep transit operating.
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024/12/30/amtrak-derails-decades-of-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/
Amtrak also broke ground on a station in Mobile, AL for the return of intercity passenger rail service to that city. At this point, I don't think the circumstances of what's taken place at the MIC or Mobile has anything to do with Jax. Jax should keep moving its plans for the return of intercity passenger rail in downtown forward.
Quote from: Skybox111 on January 01, 2025, 10:15:04 PM
Amtrak pulled out after 30 years of development millions wasted if they did that to miami that has more density and a larger airport than ours than it's probably best not to have amtrak here or anyone else. Jacksonville is small even if downtown got built out there still isn't a huge demand for passenger rail and not many people will consider using it than taking a plane and getting there faster. Just like people living in downtown where retail and grocery are close by blocks and blocks no-one would care much to use transit and will just walk or bike. Maybe the elderly and handicapped but less of them compared to thousands each day that is needed to make a profit to keep transit operating.
https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024/12/30/amtrak-derails-decades-of-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/
Miami's Amtrak situation is different than Jacksonville's. Amtrak still serves the Miami station, up in Hialeah about 7 miles northwest of Downtown. There's (currently) no good way for Amtrak to get to the city center; the plan was to bring them further south to the airport, where local transit already goes, but which was extremely expensive. Brightline also serves Downtown Miami on different tracks as does local transit. In Jacksonville, Amtrak's current route already takes it right past the Prime Osborn and there are other tracks there. Doing this also opens up the door for the FEC line (used by Brightline further south) for passenger use once again.
The situation is more similar to Mobile, where Amtrak extended service along the tracks it used to use 20 years ago, but in Jax, the Prime Osborn doesn't require the level of new track infrastructure that Mobile did.
64,000 people use Jacksonville's current Amtrak station per year despite its inconvenient location and lack of development opportunities. Moving to the Prime Osborn would take better advantage of that activity to spark new development and connect with other transit, and the ridership would likely increase due to the better location. It would also open up the door for other opportunities, such as Brightline, local rail and additional Amtrak routes.
Like others have said, Miami's challenges with Amtrak have to do with a number of issues that don't impact Jacksonville to the same extent. As hinted in the letter (https://www.miamidade.gov/citt/library/meetings/2024/agendas/full-trust/2024-12-18-full-trust-agenda-6c.pdf) from Amtrak to FDOT, moving long distance service to the station at the airport would need a great deal of additional construction work while still requiring a large amount of servicing operations at the existing Hialeah facility. Especially with state support for expanded service so tenuous, it probably made more sense for Amtrak to stick to their wholly-controlled facility where the trains all have to be serviced anyway.
Also worth remembering that at the end of the day, mass transit is generally a public service not intended to generate a profit, same as our expansive highway network (which as we speak, FDOT is spending billions of dollars on with no expectation of making a profit). That doesn't mean it doesn't have to make any money (although again, most of our highways do not) but profitability is not the only useful measure of its success.
The latest on the Florida Semiconductor Institute:
https://news.ufl.edu/2025/03/fsi-jacksonville/ (https://news.ufl.edu/2025/03/fsi-jacksonville/)
QuoteThe Jacksonville space will be anchored by a $45 million Advanced Technology Center, which will co-locate UF research and development with industry-leading semiconductor companies, as well as serve as the potential headquarters for UF's national security applied research enterprise. The state has also appropriate $35 million for research operations, bringing total funding for the project to $80 million.
Quote from: Fallen Buckeye on April 09, 2025, 12:04:34 PM
The latest on the Florida Semiconductor Institute:
https://news.ufl.edu/2025/03/fsi-jacksonville/ (https://news.ufl.edu/2025/03/fsi-jacksonville/)
QuoteThe Jacksonville space will be anchored by a $45 million Advanced Technology Center, which will co-locate UF research and development with industry-leading semiconductor companies, as well as serve as the potential headquarters for UF's national security applied research enterprise. The state has also appropriate $35 million for research operations, bringing total funding for the project to $80 million.
Keep an eye on this. It's a little under the radar, but this bit alone is a huge deal that'll have a big impact, especially for a comparatively small price tag.