Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus

[marcuscnelson]

Pretty exciting news! Hopefully this is both a massive boon for the area (LaVilla, Brooklyn, Downtown overall, the city and even the region) and considerate of where it is. Sounds like lakelander is on top of that though.

Jake Gordon is claiming that the Prime Osborn is still on the renderings but I don't think that's accurate?

To that end, the renderings look attractive, although it's 1) incredibly funny that they include the Skyway and not the U2C and 2) curious that they'd choose to stay pretty low slung while filling all the land vs considering some taller structures on a more compact footprint with room to grow. Also interesting to see two separate yet pretty large parking structures.

That one gray, non-textured building near the tracks stands out to me, I wonder if they've actually explicitly left a provision for a future rail station building (although very disappointing if the original terminal building is completely separate from that or totally dedicated to academic purposes).

I would really want to see more detail, especially in terms of the connectivity of the campus as part of the neighborhood instead of some kind of academic fortress. But exciting that this is still happening all the same. Kinda crazy that there were studies years ago suggesting a university campus here and for that to actually come to fruition.

[thelakelander]

Looks like the convention center days will be numbered based on the renderings.  Although, if this is phased, it could be years before that day arrives, if ever.

Said it didn't make sense there ;-) Just not enough land when realistically looking at the needs for each type of facility.

I wonder if the Fair Grounds might be a new candidate for a convention center to compliment Khan's vision for that area.  May be a dark horse but don't underestimate Khan.

Khan may be a billionaire but that doesn't mean sticking a convention center anywhere will lead to success. The Fair Grounds also doesn't make sense for a convention center. Its even worse than the Prime Osborn site....for that particular use. Fair Grounds has some sort of mixed-use sports related infill project written all over it. Not a small exhibition hall with no large connected full service hotel.

I also don't see any clear set aside for a rail station in the future here.  Lake, fill us in on that too.

How that station area is laid out is something that $1.25 million TOD grant the mayors office was awarded will figure out. But yes, that rendering does ignore the realistic needs of a functioning passenger rail terminal.

[thelakelander]

Regarding how the rendering aligns with rail, the area in yellow would be something to watch/reserve at a minimum.



There could be multiple tracks and platforms running the length of the site along the south side of the site. So all those buildings in yellow would likely need to be elevated or not built where shown. This is some of the details that will have to be worked out as things move forward.

[acme54321]

Just knock down the PO and figure out conventions later...

[fieldafm]

I wonder if the Fair Grounds might be a new candidate for a convention center to compliment Khan's vision for that area.  May be a dark horse but don't underestimate Khan.

No, and no plans to consider this... although there are some people in town that do not work for the Jaguars/Kahn who think the former Flex Field adjacent to Dailys Place would somehow be a good candidate to be retrofitted for a convention center (these same people have never written a check for such a cost-prohibitive idea, either). That idea is probably worse than putting a CC on the Fairgrounds site.

Fortunately, there are those in town (who have written checks before) who believe that working with the current Hyatt owners from Singapore would offer a much better opportunity to expand what is effectively our current convention center (the Hyatt) and building out additional exhibition hall space on to the adjacent dead space.

Interesting that the lot north of JTA's building remains untouched.  I do see there is a "for sale" sign on that parcel currently.

That's still JTA's property from their large land grab several decades ago. It was because of this site that their sprawling 'transportation center' was massively scaled down into what has been built today (the office building and the Greyhound station). Still no Amtrak or commuter rail as JTA never aggressively pursued funding for either, instead going after more BRT land grabs (they spent more on land acquisitions than fleet acquisitions) and later clown cars (where more money has gone from taxpayers hands to various consultants, contractors and companies that only exist due to JTA's money reallocation scheme).

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-jan-the-jacksonville-regional-transportation-center#.U_aTNix0yUk

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2012-aug-is-the-jrtc-a-mistake-in-the-making#.U_aT5Cx0yUk

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2013-may-rethinking-the-jacksonville-transportation-center#.U_aXRCx0yUk

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2014-aug-jta-shrinks-transportation-centers-footprint

[jaxlongtimer]

When I brought up the fair grounds for a CC, I was partially speculating and partially playing devil's advocate.

Khan is building a 4 Seasons that no one would have ever expected, especially in the location he is building it in.  If he thought a line from the 4 Seasons through a Lot J entertainment district to a CC at the Fair Grounds (plus maybe another hotel or other developments) would add up to more than the sum of its parts, I would expect him to enter the fray based on his track record.

Keep in mind the Hart Bridge ramp removal was his, and only his, idea and he got that done pronto. 

He thinks big picture, can finance anything he wants and doesn't take "no" for an answer often so anything is possible with him.

[arb]

To that end, the renderings look attractive, although it's 1) incredibly funny that they include the Skyway and not the U2C and 2) curious that they'd choose to stay pretty low slung while filling all the land vs considering some taller structures on a more compact footprint with room to grow. Also interesting to see two separate yet pretty large parking structures.

Of course given the land area, it may be cheaper to build outwardly but IIRC, there is a 55 foot height limit in LaVilla. Not sure if this applies to all vs just residential buildings or if the convention center is included in the LaVilla overlay, but could perhaps play a part.

[jaxlongtimer]

To that end, the renderings look attractive, although it's 1) incredibly funny that they include the Skyway and not the U2C and 2) curious that they'd choose to stay pretty low slung while filling all the land vs considering some taller structures on a more compact footprint with room to grow. Also interesting to see two separate yet pretty large parking structures.

Of course given the land area, it may be cheaper to build outwardly but IIRC, there is a 55 foot height limit in LaVilla. Not sure if this applies to all vs just residential buildings or if the convention center is included in the LaVilla overlay, but could perhaps play a part.

^ I would think given the location of the project, the height of I-95 passing by there already and the hunger by the City to see this project through, UF could easily get a waiver or change to the 55 foot height limit.  And, if there are those who want to increase density or "show off" this project to the interstate traffic, this should appeal to them as well.  It would appear it may be removed/off to the side from other development in LaVilla to not overly dominate/impose on those areas, at least at some modestly higher level.  Maybe Lake can fill us in more on how that could play out.

[thelakelander]

The height limit is 75 feet in LaVilla. Although, you won't get any real opposition for some density or extra height in that part of the neighborhood. Everything south of Forsyth Street was leveled decades ago. So there is not sense of place or historic scale to protect.

[jaxjags]

The site and campus buildings are great, but to me the most exciting news is the confirmation of the  Semiconductor Institute. This can have huge impact on the area as a whole.

[Skybox111]

Uf says construction is to start quickly in 2025 and classes to begin in 2026 so i don't think they want to change much sounds like they're worried about something and want to jump on it immediately.

[thelakelander]

The old Interline Brands office building is something they can use to get started.

[jaxlongtimer]

Uf says construction is to start quickly in 2025 and classes to begin in 2026 so i don't think they want to change much sounds like they're worried about something and want to jump on it immediately.

Northeast Florida is enjoying its most powerful representation in Tallahassee in years so if this project needs more resources, they have about a 2 year window to "milk the cow" there.  My guess is they will ask for even more funding as they get going.  Also, inflation likely isn't going anywhere during that time given Trump's announced policies on tariffs, tax cuts, and immigration which will, respectively, raise the cost of building materials, any financing interest and construction labor, all significant elements to building out the campus.  So the sooner they start, the better.  Finally, donors will want to see "action" and won't be happy if this gets drawn out any longer.  Plus, Deegan will want it finished before the next Mayoral election as a signature accomplishment during this term.  Lots of reasons to move this along  . 

My question is will it be phased or all at once.  For example, I find it hard to believe they will occupy the PO Convention Center real estate before the City has moved that elsewhere.  That is clearly a 3 to 5+ year project if they started now.  And, are the renderings representing actual plans or just place holders for what will actually be built? 

Update:  Found this info in the Daily Record's expanded article:

Deegan said that eventually the newer portions of the convention center, not including the historic train station, could be demolished to make way for the campus.

However, she told reporters that plans involving the demolition would be years away, allowing time for the city to develop a new convention center. likely at a site near the current Duval County jail.

"In terms of the convention center itself, that is probably 10 years down the road," she said.

[jaxlongtimer]

The old Interline Brands office building is something they can use to get started.

^ Found this quote in Florida Politics today:

Until the build is complete, an existing building near the historic convention center will be used for classes, representing a change of plans from previous proposals that contemplated the JEA tower as temporary home for the fledgling campus.

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/711747-jacksonvilles-uf-campus-lands-in-lavilla/

And this from the Daily Record expanded article:

UF followed up by negotiating with JEA for a short-term lease of space on the fifth floor of the municipal utility's headquarters building at 225 N. Pearl St.

A JEA spokeswoman said Dec. 11 that no agreement had been reached.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Makes lots of sense.  Very accessible from the interstates, the multi-modal transit center and the bridges. Walkable to Downtown venues and Brooklyn apartments and retail - all that will be very supportive of student lifestyles...

....To add, if UF builds towers, they will be visible to the interstate offering free exposure to boost their brand.  And, it will be at a gateway to the City which will also ensure a high profile and simultaneously boost the City's image.  (A lot better than a Daily's gas station and U2C maintenance shed!)..

Above post aligns well with UF's explanation for picking LaVilla  :

....Kurt Dudas, UF vice president for strategic initiatives, told committee members that the president's office recommended the Prime Osborn site based partly on its proximity to interstates 10 and 95 and to businesses in Brooklyn and the Downtown core.

Other reasons included the nearby availability of public transportation out of the Jacksonville Transportation Authority's headquarters, and the presence of public amenities such as Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing Park and the Emerald Trail Model Mile...

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/dec/12/lavilla-site-selected-for-new-university-of-florida-jacksonville-graduate-campus-semiconductor-institute/