Florida attorney general Pam Bondi said the Nightclub looked like a war zone and called the massacre an act of radical Islam. Key words that come from the Right Wing Nut Republicans 'Radical Islam!' On Sunday I never saw Pam at any of the Audio mikes? Here is the rest of her take on the killings. http://www.news4jax.com/news/bondi-calls-nightclub-a-war-zone
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 13, 2016, 09:45:08 AM
Florida attorney general Pam Bondi said the Nightclub looked like a war zone and called the massacre an act of radical Islam. Key words that come from the Right Wing Nut Republicans 'Radical Islam!' On Sunday I never saw Pam at any of the Audio mikes? Here is the rest of her take on the killings. http://www.news4jax.com/news/bondi-calls-nightclub-a-war-zone
I don't really have a problem with the term "radical Islam", it distinguishes it from the many, and majority, of Muslims who are peace loving and normal people; just like I dont have a problem with "fundamentalist/radical Christian" to distinguish the same.
I really do not get why many liberals (and I include myself as a liberal) have such a hard time decrying Islam while they protest the very same attitudes and beliefs of Christians-- all fundamentalist religions are a problem, not just white male Christianity. I have no problem acknowledging that we should let refugees from Syria into our country while also saying that there is a very poisonous strain of Islam that wants war and death. And by virtue of the size of Islam across the world, that strain includes a lot of people.
In the next set of killings that will come. From workplace killings to spouse killings etc. Lets find out the killers religion and say that they were part of the Radical Baptist, Radical Methodist, Radical Jewish, Radical whatever just to be fair.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 13, 2016, 09:45:08 AM
Florida attorney general Pam Bondi said the Nightclub looked like a war zone and called the massacre an act of radical Islam. Key words that come from the Right Wing Nut Republicans 'Radical Islam!' On Sunday I never saw Pam at any of the Audio mikes? Here is the rest of her take on the killings. http://www.news4jax.com/news/bondi-calls-nightclub-a-war-zone
I don't really have a problem with the term "radical Islam", it distinguishes it from the many, and majority, of Muslims who are peace loving and normal people; just like I dont have a problem with "fundamentalist/radical Christian" to distinguish the same.
I really do not get why many liberals (and I include myself as a liberal) have such a hard time decrying Islam while they protest the very same attitudes and beliefs of Christians-- all fundamentalist religions are a problem, not just white male Christianity. I have no problem acknowledging that we should let refugees from Syria into our country while also saying that there is a very poisonous strain of Islam that wants war and death. And by virtue of the size of Islam across the world, that strain includes a lot of people.
I've no issue with radical islam being highlighted if it is the reason for an attack.
What I take issue with is when attacks are used as a way to drag out the usual islamophobic propaganda.
Quote from: Adam White on June 13, 2016, 12:52:09 PM
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 10:09:46 AM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 13, 2016, 09:45:08 AM
Florida attorney general Pam Bondi said the Nightclub looked like a war zone and called the massacre an act of radical Islam. Key words that come from the Right Wing Nut Republicans 'Radical Islam!' On Sunday I never saw Pam at any of the Audio mikes? Here is the rest of her take on the killings. http://www.news4jax.com/news/bondi-calls-nightclub-a-war-zone
I don't really have a problem with the term "radical Islam", it distinguishes it from the many, and majority, of Muslims who are peace loving and normal people; just like I dont have a problem with "fundamentalist/radical Christian" to distinguish the same.
I really do not get why many liberals (and I include myself as a liberal) have such a hard time decrying Islam while they protest the very same attitudes and beliefs of Christians-- all fundamentalist religions are a problem, not just white male Christianity. I have no problem acknowledging that we should let refugees from Syria into our country while also saying that there is a very poisonous strain of Islam that wants war and death. And by virtue of the size of Islam across the world, that strain includes a lot of people.
I've no issue with radical islam being highlighted if it is the reason for an attack.
What I take issue with is when attacks are used as a way to drag out the usual islamophobic propaganda.
The reason Pam Bondi calls it Radical Islam, Donald Trump and others in the Right Wing Nut Club call it this.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 13, 2016, 12:47:25 PM
In the next set of killings that will come. From workplace killings to spouse killings etc. Lets find out the killers religion and say that they were part of the Radical Baptist, Radical Methodist, Radical Jewish, Radical whatever just to be fair.
It's absolutely unbelievable that everyone is tip-toeing around the fact that there is a (very?) large segment of a religion that seeks to do violence in the name of said religion. This guy, and others, specifically killed people due to his/their religious beliefs.
I don't think it's a very large segment of islam. It might be a large number, but as a percentage of total muslims (over a billion people), it's likely very small.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: The_Choose_1 on June 13, 2016, 12:47:25 PM
In the next set of killings that will come. From workplace killings to spouse killings etc. Lets find out the killers religion and say that they were part of the Radical Baptist, Radical Methodist, Radical Jewish, Radical whatever just to be fair.
If someone kills a bunch of people because of his radical Christian beliefs, then he absolutely should be called an extremist or radical Christian. That was my whole point.
In what I am seeing on blogs and websites (including here), I really understand why people listen to Trump on this the way they do. It's absolutely unbelievable that everyone is tip-toeing around the fact that there is a (very?) large segment of a religion that seeks to do violence in the name of said religion. This guy, and others, specifically killed people due to his/their religious beliefs. We should be calling this shit out-- REGARDLESS of the religion, instead of bending over backwards to try and discount/ignore the fact that it was religiously motivated.
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13419141_1802283973326025_1439539952055873652_n.jpg?oh=c9d6bcef88535c3f66b98857a7a4912c&oe=5807E4D8)
He was born in "AMERICA" so call him an American Muslim if you want to be PC about it.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 02:11:43 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 13, 2016, 02:08:22 PM
I don't think it's a very large segment of islam. It might be a large number, but as a percentage of total muslims (over a billion people), it's likely very small.
Oh, yes. Definitely agreed. That is a misstatement on my part and I was trying to convey what you said. Thank you for pointing that out.
I don't have a problem with peaceful, tolerant Muslims, just like I don't have a problem with peaceful, tolerant Christians. I just find it unbelievable that SO many liberals I know love to bash Christianity and then refuse to acknowledge the same behavior and beliefs of the extremist wing of Islam, just because it might mean that --GASP!-- they share an opinion with Republicans.
I think another reason might be borne out of concern about vilifying a minority group. People hesitate because the narrative so quickly can be hijacked and turned into muslim-bashing. Same thing with immigration - it's so hard to critique immigration policies because people with an agenda tend to hijack the conversation.
Quote from: Murder_me_Rachel on June 13, 2016, 02:11:43 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 13, 2016, 02:08:22 PM
I don't think it's a very large segment of islam. It might be a large number, but as a percentage of total muslims (over a billion people), it's likely very small.
Oh, yes. Definitely agreed. That is a misstatement on my part and I was trying to convey what you said. Thank you for pointing that out.
I don't have a problem with peaceful, tolerant Muslims, just like I don't have a problem with peaceful, tolerant Christians. I just find it unbelievable that SO many liberals I know love to bash Christianity and then refuse to acknowledge the same behavior and beliefs of the extremist wing of Islam, just because it might mean that --GASP!-- they share an opinion with Republicans.
This guy was a Lone Wolf at this point. And so far killed 49 people the 50th person counted on Sunday was the killer himself. Who died in a hail of bullets.
Do any of the other labels even matter when his own father calls him mentally disturbed?
More immediately, homophobia and mental illness were to blame. "Radical Islam" and pathetic gun laws didn't help.
What were John Lennon's words? Imagine no religion???
Quote from: Ivegotasecret on June 13, 2016, 06:13:11 PM
What were John Lennon's words? Imagine no religion???
Don't shoot?
Quote from: JeffreyS on June 13, 2016, 03:57:48 PM
Do any of the other labels even matter when his own father calls him mentally disturbed?
You got the gun and gay thing for the left and the Islam thing for the right. Everyone gets to rub one out politically
Anderson Cooper Grills Woman Who Led Charge Against Gay Marriage In Florida
CNN's Anderson Cooper grilled Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi on Tuesday, saying many in the LGBT community think she's "a hypocrite."
After a shooter killed 49 people and injured 53 others at a gay nightclub in Orlando Sunday, Bondi said people who attacked the LGBT community would be punished.
"We are making it clear that anyone who attacks our LGBT community, anyone who attacks anyone will be gone after to the fullest extent of the law," Bondi said Sunday.
Bondi led the fight against legalizing same-sex marriage in Florida, arguing it would "impose significant public harm" in the Sunshine State. The battle over gay marriage cost Florida taxpayers almost $500,000, according to the Tampa Bay Times.
"You've basically gone after people, said in court that gay people, simply by fighting for marriage equality, were trying to do harm to the people of Florida," Cooper told her. "Do you really think you're a champion of the gay community?"
http://new.www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/anderson-cooper-pam-bondi_us_57604bb1e4b0e4fe5143e8b8?
That's a bit dramatic.. disagreeing with gay marriage isn't the same thing as condoning mass murder.
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 02:29:16 AM
That's a bit dramatic.. disagreeing with gay marriage isn't the same thing as condoning mass murder.
You're right, it isn't. But it's naive to think that anti-gay rhetoric doesn't contribute the poisonous climate and foster hate crimes against LGBT people.
Quote from: Adam White on June 15, 2016, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 02:29:16 AM
That's a bit dramatic.. disagreeing with gay marriage isn't the same thing as condoning mass murder.
You're right, it isn't. But it's naive to think that anti-gay rhetoric doesn't contribute the poisonous climate and foster hate crimes against LGBT people.
True, to a degree.
There is also the propensity to create fanatics on both sides of the issue when all points of disagreement are viewed too severely by the opposing sides.
No, it is not the single ingredient, but is one, nevertheless.
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 12:27:12 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 15, 2016, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 02:29:16 AM
That's a bit dramatic.. disagreeing with gay marriage isn't the same thing as condoning mass murder.
You're right, it isn't. But it's naive to think that anti-gay rhetoric doesn't contribute the poisonous climate and foster hate crimes against LGBT people.
True, to a degree.
There is also the propensity to create fanatics on both sides of the issue when all points of disagreement are viewed too severely by the opposing sides.
Interesting. I'd see that as a symptom more than a cause.
Quote from: Adam White on June 15, 2016, 04:16:13 PM
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 12:27:12 PM
Quote from: Adam White on June 15, 2016, 06:15:51 AM
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 02:29:16 AM
That's a bit dramatic.. disagreeing with gay marriage isn't the same thing as condoning mass murder.
You're right, it isn't. But it's naive to think that anti-gay rhetoric doesn't contribute the poisonous climate and foster hate crimes against LGBT people.
True, to a degree.
There is also the propensity to create fanatics on both sides of the issue when all points of disagreement are viewed too severely by the opposing sides.
Interesting. I'd see that as a symptom more than a cause.
Perhaps it would be more correct to say "fanaticism" than "fanatic", making my statement less personal, and more observational.
Quote from: stephendare on June 15, 2016, 10:09:19 PM
Quote from: AKIRA on June 15, 2016, 03:31:44 PM
No, it is not the single ingredient, but is one, nevertheless.
No. Its not. Not trying to be a dick here, but I know from fanatics. Ive spent a whole lot of quality time with them over the years, as they fascinate me.
Sorta like a Non gay non fanatic terrorist not interesting in a gay bar?
After all the shock, anger, questions, and sorrow from last weekend's tragedy and particularly after all the admonishments, excuses, blaming, and word-parsing debates brought about; a simple suggestions: Concerning the current deliberations about last weekend can we try to give ourselves some time to breathe?
I'm not talking about avoiding all news or mentions of the tragic event in Orlando, but perhaps for a day or two can we refrain from some of the typical arguments and accusations made during times like these or avoid pursuing, pointing out, or poking holes in the latest rumors, theories, and postings? The news of the aftermath of last weekend will always be there waiting for us to pursue as will the opportunities to inform and opine on social media.
For the record, this is not a rebuke of any of the current discourse about last Saturday night because discussions and debates are healthy and necessary. I'm primarily projecting my struggle dealing with this senseless act and dealing with my demands for answers and desire to help heal. Going through all this our hearts may be heavy but are stronger that we think, but that shouldn't keep us from trying to or asking for help easing it's burden.
And in keeping with the theme of this thread, we all may be better served by hearing the statements of another Republican touched by this tragedy...
http://wonkette.com/602990/this-utah-republican-publicly-mourning-gay-orlando-victims-will-make-you-ugly-cry
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on June 16, 2016, 01:42:28 AM
After all the shock, anger, questions, and sorrow from last weekend's tragedy and particularly after all the admonishments, excuses, blaming, and word-parsing debates brought about; a simple suggestions: Concerning the current deliberations about last weekend can we try to give ourselves some time to breathe?
I'm not talking about avoiding all news or mentions of the tragic event in Orlando, but perhaps for a day or two can we refrain from some of the typical arguments and accusations made during times like these or avoid pursuing, pointing out, or poking holes in the latest rumors, theories, and postings? The news of the aftermath of last weekend will always be there waiting for us to pursue as will the opportunities to inform and opine on social media.
For the record, this is not a rebuke of any of the current discourse about last Saturday night because discussions and debates are healthy and necessary. I'm primarily projecting my struggle dealing with this senseless act and dealing with my demands for answers and desire to help heal. Going through all this our hearts may be heavy but are stronger that we think, but that shouldn't keep us from trying to or asking for help easing it's burden.
And in keeping with the theme of this thread, we all may be better served by hearing the statements of another Republican touched by this tragedy...
http://wonkette.com/602990/this-utah-republican-publicly-mourning-gay-orlando-victims-will-make-you-ugly-cry
You could always, I don't know... not read the thread?
You're not obligated to click on the thread and read it. So it's not like anyone is forcing you to endure that. Of course, you know that - so I don't see how this is anything but an admonishment. You're asking other people to alter their behaviour, even though it doesn't even need to impact you.
Edit: I don't mean to seem like I'm having a go at you and if my message came across that way, I apologise. I think my point is that, whilst I understand where you're coming from, it does seem as if you're taking people to task for discussing this issue.
I this guy were an Imam, there would be outrage and his words would be used as 'evidence' that Islam is a violent religion and incompatible with Western society.
Pastor Roger Jimenez from Verity Baptist Church caused revulsion around America with a televised rant which said, 'Are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today? Um no. I think that's great. I think that helps society. I think Orlando, Florida, is a little safer tonight.
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/im-upset-he-didnt-finish-the-job-christian-092114685.html (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/im-upset-he-didnt-finish-the-job-christian-092114685.html)
Quote from: Adam White on June 16, 2016, 03:36:46 AM
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on June 16, 2016, 01:42:28 AM
After all the shock, anger, questions, and sorrow from last weekend's tragedy and particularly after all the admonishments, excuses, blaming, and word-parsing debates brought about; a simple suggestions: Concerning the current deliberations about last weekend can we try to give ourselves some time to breathe?
I'm not talking about avoiding all news or mentions of the tragic event in Orlando, but perhaps for a day or two can we refrain from some of the typical arguments and accusations made during times like these or avoid pursuing, pointing out, or poking holes in the latest rumors, theories, and postings? The news of the aftermath of last weekend will always be there waiting for us to pursue as will the opportunities to inform and opine on social media.
For the record, this is not a rebuke of any of the current discourse about last Saturday night because discussions and debates are healthy and necessary. I'm primarily projecting my struggle dealing with this senseless act and dealing with my demands for answers and desire to help heal. Going through all this our hearts may be heavy but are stronger that we think, but that shouldn't keep us from trying to or asking for help easing it's burden.
And in keeping with the theme of this thread, we all may be better served by hearing the statements of another Republican touched by this tragedy...
http://wonkette.com/602990/this-utah-republican-publicly-mourning-gay-orlando-victims-will-make-you-ugly-cry
You could always, I don't know... not read the thread?
You're not obligated to click on the thread and read it. So it's not like anyone is forcing you to endure that. Of course, you know that - so I don't see how this is anything but an admonishment. You're asking other people to alter their behaviour, even though it doesn't even need to impact you.
Edit: I don't mean to seem like I'm having a go at you and if my message came across that way, I apologise. I think my point is that, whilst I understand where you're coming from, it does seem as if you're taking people to task for discussing this issue.
Wonkette is occasionally unkind to people of the Republican persuasion. Occasionally. But there are times, like this week in the wake of the Orlando shootings, when we all need to be a little more human, even to people we disagree with. (Unless they're being evil dicks ABOUT the Orlando shootings, in which case f*** them.)
That said, I found it was a great speech - really what needed to be said.
Quote from: Gunnar on June 16, 2016, 06:42:09 AM
Quote from: Adam White on June 16, 2016, 03:36:46 AM
Quote from: JaxJersey-licious on June 16, 2016, 01:42:28 AM
After all the shock, anger, questions, and sorrow from last weekend's tragedy and particularly after all the admonishments, excuses, blaming, and word-parsing debates brought about; a simple suggestions: Concerning the current deliberations about last weekend can we try to give ourselves some time to breathe?
I'm not talking about avoiding all news or mentions of the tragic event in Orlando, but perhaps for a day or two can we refrain from some of the typical arguments and accusations made during times like these or avoid pursuing, pointing out, or poking holes in the latest rumors, theories, and postings? The news of the aftermath of last weekend will always be there waiting for us to pursue as will the opportunities to inform and opine on social media.
For the record, this is not a rebuke of any of the current discourse about last Saturday night because discussions and debates are healthy and necessary. I'm primarily projecting my struggle dealing with this senseless act and dealing with my demands for answers and desire to help heal. Going through all this our hearts may be heavy but are stronger that we think, but that shouldn't keep us from trying to or asking for help easing it's burden.
And in keeping with the theme of this thread, we all may be better served by hearing the statements of another Republican touched by this tragedy...
http://wonkette.com/602990/this-utah-republican-publicly-mourning-gay-orlando-victims-will-make-you-ugly-cry
You could always, I don't know... not read the thread?
You're not obligated to click on the thread and read it. So it's not like anyone is forcing you to endure that. Of course, you know that - so I don't see how this is anything but an admonishment. You're asking other people to alter their behaviour, even though it doesn't even need to impact you.
Edit: I don't mean to seem like I'm having a go at you and if my message came across that way, I apologise. I think my point is that, whilst I understand where you're coming from, it does seem as if you're taking people to task for discussing this issue.
Wonkette is occasionally unkind to people of the Republican persuasion. Occasionally. But there are times, like this week in the wake of the Orlando shootings, when we all need to be a little more human, even to people we disagree with. (Unless they're being evil dicks ABOUT the Orlando shootings, in which case f*** them.)
That said, I found it was a great speech - really what needed to be said.
I agree 100%.