QuoteSt. Augustine drivers might be getting a cure for their commuting woes
St. Augustine and St. Johns County residents who are tired of the I-95 slog might be getting a cure for their morning commute.
The Jacksonville Transportation Authority is studying the viability of a commuter rail system on the Southeast corridor, between Downtown and St. Augustine.
The study, which will be completed this time next year, looks at potential ridership, the cost to build and operate the systems and where the stations would be. The study being conducted by Parsons Brinckerhoff costs $525,000.
"We're doing all the modeling tools required for us to then determine the next steps," said spokeswoman Leigh Ann Rassler. "The study is required for us to apply for federal funding."
JTA hasn't budgeted for designing or building the system, but the organization could apply for federal grants to bring the project to fruition. While an actual figure is yet to be determined, the commuter rail is estimated to cost as much as $200 million.
QuoteThe commuter rail, Rassler said, is about 20 to 30 miles long and would stop less frequently. It would also only run during peak hours: about three times during morning and evening rush hour, and once around the lunch rush.
Full article: http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2015/05/20/st-augustine-drivers-might-be-getting-a-cure-for.html
Wow, interesting.
Time flies. Some places have planned, constructed, completed and are operating new lines since the initial commuter rail study of this corridor. Here's the numbers from the 2008 study:
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2008-oct-commuter-rail-study-update-costs-and-ridership
(http://www.metrojacksonville.com/photos/thumbs/lrg-5959-jta-final-station03.png)
QuoteSoutheast Corridor
This corridor would use the FEC line between Downtown Jacksonville and St. Augustine. Preliminary estimates indicate it would attract the highest ridership and cost the least to implement. Of interesting note, the study shows the Downtown Southbank (San Marco) station attracting more rail riders than the Jacksonville Terminal.
Service Frequencies: 30 minute peak service/60 minute off-peak service
Travel Time from JTC - Distance from JTC - Stations
0 minutes - 0.0 miles - Jacksonville Transportation Center
3 minutes - 1.1 miles - San Marco
6 minutes - 3.6 miles - Emerson Street
11 minutes - 7.2 miles - J Turner Butler Boulevard
15 minutes - 9.0 miles - Baymeadows Road
20 minutes - 13.3 miles - Avenues
23 minutes - 15.8 miles - Old St. Augustine Road
28 minutes - 19.3 miles - Race Track Road
36 minutes - 27.5 miles - Palencia
41 minutes - 31.8 miles - St. Augustine - St. Johns County Airport
44 minutes - 33.6 miles - St. Augustine - St. Johns County Complex
47 minutes - 35.7 miles - St. Augustine - Historic District
51 minutes - 38.4 miles - St. Augustine - West St. Augustine
Weekday Service: 18 round trips
Peak Trainsets/Crews: 4
Peak Car Requirement: 8
**The information below does not account for interfacing with transit modes**
Estimated Weekday Passenger Trips (Ridership 2015)
Southeast Corridor: 4,814 trips
The biggest thing I see is instead of a train every hour off-peak, we're down to 7 trains a weekday (instead of 18) and no weekend service. Expect low ridership numbers.
Yeah. It's going to need at least SunRail's schedule to be successful
Hmm, sounds an awful lot like another commuter system that we already have... Only running during peak hours, in the morning, lunch and evening time... Assuming not running on the weekends. WTH? Why do we keep shooting ourselves in the (tourism) foot by not running our transportation systems on the weekends??? I'm sure that St. Augustinians would come to Jax a lot more often if they could ride the rail in, just like a lot of us would go to St Augustine more frequently... I just don't get it!
I'll be interested to see the study results. Unfortunately, Sunrail averages around the same amount of weekday ridership as the Skyway does right now. BRT will serve the same corridor between DT and Avenues Mall with 10-15 minute headways, 7 days a week. If AAF (assuming headways are similar to the Orlando-Miami link) or Amtrak comes to the FEC corridor in upcoming years, we may be better off lobbying to get stations at the JRTC and St. Augustine. In such a scenario, the only area on the FEC corridor not covered with more frequent transit will be Northern St. Johns County. However, I seriously doubt that sprawled out area will generate significant ridership or anything that the Sunshine Bus can't handle. With all of this in mind, although FEC is clearly more receptive to commuter rail than CSX, seems like the CSX A, between DT and Clay County may be the local corridor with the most potential for commuter rail.
I predict almost no ridership on this route (more ridership on the existing DT Skyway seems more logical). Traffic and parking are just not bad enough, and are not hassles on the First Coast. Residential density is low and commuter rail doesn't spur residential TOD like other forms of rail do. 30/60 minute headways are not convenient, even for organized planners, which most of us are not. For actual commuting, the rail line is too far from a residential base, which is a base that actually sends most commuters down JTB or elsewhere besides downtown.
Then there is the whole issue with the study to begin with. What are they going to discover that has materially changed since the study 7 years ago, and how much is it going to cost to discover these items?
The one major plus I see with commuter rail is the fact that it can use FEC tracks and already has a river crossing as a result. Light rail/streetcar does not.
Based on todays view, yes the route doesnt look viable. But enforce TOD zoning on the route for 25 years with downtown development and it will be viable.
You have to make the commitment first and then follow it up with complementary planning.
If you wait for COJ to develop the planning in absence of the service, it will never happen, ever.
hmmm...I remember this exact same "study" when I first joined metrojacksonville seven years ago. I was very excited back then...
Quote from: spuwho on May 20, 2015, 08:17:11 PM
Based on todays view, yes the route doesnt look viable. But enforce TOD zoning on the route for 25 years with downtown development and it will be viable.
You have to make the commitment first and then follow it up with complementary planning.
If you wait for COJ to develop the planning in absence of the service, it will never happen, ever.
Great point.
You're not going to get much TOD running a commuter rail train every three or four hours for five days a week. If we really want TOD, we can experiement with it now around the Skyway's stations.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
You're not going to get much TOD running a commuter rail train every three or four hours for five days a week. If we really want TOD, we can experiement with it now around the Skyway's stations.
I agree, but you have to start somewhere. My point is until you start the service, no one will do the TOD at all. And complementary doesn't necessarily mean right by a station. It can mean bus/streetcar routes that can feed it from higher density areas.
And no need to experiment, TOD works, Skyway needs it as well.
You guys are thinking the demand has to come first, then the route can exist. I am saying the route has to exist so that demand can be planned for.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
You're not going to get much TOD running a commuter rail train every three or four hours for five days a week. If we really want TOD, we can experiement with it now around the Skyway's stations.
There seemed to be TOD/TAD with Sunrail and Metrorail in Austin. I know your point is it needs to run much more frequently, but I agree with Spuwho that there needs to be a will to create the service to attract TOD, not waiting for the development to come to then decide to build the transit. As you know very well, that will never happen.
It would have been interesting if JTA or COJ had developed mixed use sites surrounding the stations as part of the original expansion. AAF style. Might have made everything more successful, in terms of revenue AND ridership. And a bit easier to rationalize further extensions.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on May 20, 2015, 10:20:33 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
You're not going to get much TOD running a commuter rail train every three or four hours for five days a week. If we really want TOD, we can experiement with it now around the Skyway's stations.
There seemed to be TOD/TAD with Sunrail and Metrorail in Austin. I know your point is it needs to run much more frequently, but I agree with Spuwho that there needs to be a will to create the service to attract TOD, not waiting for the development to come to then decide to build the transit. As you know very well, that will never happen.
I doubt we'd ever get federal funding anyway but there's a big difference in service frequencies and density of the areas immediately served. Sunrail could be improved with better frequencies but trains do run every half hour during peak with two mid-day trains....or 18 trips each way, each day. With that in mind, serving a population more than twice the size of NE Florida, that 30-mile system currently averages a little over 4k riders a day.....same as the 2.5-mile Skyway.
Austin's CapitalMetro is a DMU that runs every 30 minutes peak and 60 minutes off peak. It also runs on the weekends. Roughly 24 trips each way per weekday. It gets less than 3,000 riders a day but was pretty cheap to implement. To get Sunrail up and running, $1 billion was spent.
If Jax truly wants to get something started that attracts TOD, something much shorter, serving a denser area of the community with high frequency service and coordinated land use and zoning policies are in order. The cheapest option would be using the Skyway since it already exists, is high frequency, and half the stations are surrounded by surface parking lots and dirt already owned by JTA.
I'm the biggest transit advocate around but I'm a true believer in not throwing money after things with horrible ROI...even if it's public money. Doing such, we only hurt ourselves in future transit discussions
(ex. like what the Skyway has done to transit investment in Jax over the last 20 years).
QuoteIt would have been interesting if JTA or COJ had developed mixed use sites surrounding the stations as part of the original expansion. AAF style. Might have made everything more successful, in terms of revenue AND ridership. And a bit easier to rationalize further extensions.
They can try this now with the Skyway. If they can't pull it off in and around DT Jax, then they won't be able to do it in the burbs.
Quote from: spuwho on May 20, 2015, 10:09:17 PM
Quote from: thelakelander on May 20, 2015, 09:35:38 PM
You're not going to get much TOD running a commuter rail train every three or four hours for five days a week. If we really want TOD, we can experiement with it now around the Skyway's stations.
I agree, but you have to start somewhere. My point is until you start the service, no one will do the TOD at all. And complementary doesn't necessarily mean right by a station. It can mean bus/streetcar routes that can feed it from higher density areas.
In general, I agree. Except we started in 1989 but screwed ourselves so bad with route planning, implementation, and ignoring the importance of complementing land use and zoning practices that it set transit expansion and investment back in this town for decades. That's what we need to avoid and that's what my basic viewpoint is centered around.
QuoteAnd no need to experiment, TOD works, Skyway needs it as well.
Yes, TOD works but we'd had no success with it here for obvious reasons. At this point, we have not effectively addressed those reasons.
QuoteYou guys are thinking the demand has to come first, then the route can exist. I am saying the route has to exist so that demand can be planned for.
No. I'm talking about burning money to the point where it hurts overall future investment and support in transit locally as a whole. If we have $400- $500 million to spend on fix transit, I'm not sure limited weekday service commuter rail is the best way to go. In our political environment, it is imperative that all initial projects are a success in terms of ridership and TOD, right from the start.
Ennis, all that you say makes sense. I think you're just focused more on reality and I was simply praising the notion of potentially putting the horse before the cart, as it should be.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on May 20, 2015, 11:22:43 PM
Ennis, all that you say makes sense. I think you're just focused more on reality and I was simply praising the notion of potentially putting the horse before the cart, as it should be.
My perspective is impacted by my knowledge of local politics, potential funding opportunities/limitations, regional traffic patterns, land use policies/growth patterns, committed future transportation projects and believing something like this will need some type of local tax increase for a dedicated funding source. We're already a pretty conservative region, so we need to be on point with a solid project when the time and opportunity comes. Nevertheless, I don't mind studying to get a better feel on what the numbers say. It should let us know if it's feasible as initial proposed and if not, provide documentation of what we need to improve on.
On the commuter rail corridor study that FSUJA did a few years back, it showed limited density and too low ridership levels to implement. But this study will tell us if the First Coast has moved the needle on any of that. It's unlikely enough to make a "system" viable, but perhaps one line would be doable. Get enough people out of their cars and on the train... maybe. Only possible using existing track though. And that 's what the initial study was based on - to ST. Augustine, to Green Cove Springs/Palatka, and to Yulee/Kings Bay.
Here's a cheap graphic that might help some understand how this all works :
;D= PASSENGER X=STATIONS/stops
Start: Passenger boards local Spring Park local bus
:)
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Note the many local stops/it only meets the BRT at University Blvd.
:D
X X X X X X Board BRT @ University, exit at Baymeadows for rail
;D
X X X X X X X
;) Rider exits train at St. Aug
I believe our own commuter rail will show initial higher ridership on the Roosevelt Blvd route into Clay County, partly due to demographics and partly due to VISIBILITY. Nothing like sitting at a traffic light on Roosevelt and Verona, and watch a Commuter Train, DMU, RDC blow past you at 70 mph to open ones untrained eyes to rapid transit.
St. Augustine has an advantage being a much larger city as an endpoint and can attract much larger ridership. Weekend service is probably a very real possibility if JTA is smart enough to allow a bike/baggage rack at the car doors on the trains. This would allow passengers to ticket on Amtrak from NYC to JAX and transfer to commuter rail for downtown St. Augustine. The classic 'AVAILABLE' St Augustine FEC RY station is now positioned awkwardly to serve as a stop. Will the Winn-Dixie plaza on FEC Land come down? Will AAF redevelop the property? Will the tracks be shifted back to the US-1 proximity?
BTW ST AUGUSTINE, your Aircraft plant to Airport Terminal to County Complex to old FEC Station to downtown segment could be much better served by a 1923 vintage narrow-gauge streetcar running alongside San Marco/Ponce de Leon. JUST SAYIN' ;)
Studies are nice and all (lord knows JTA has done a few) but what are the odds of them moving forward with this? It seems like spend a million dollars every few years on a study, let it sit until it's not longer valid and repeat.
Is there something they're looking for (dollar amount, etc) that will help them move forward on this when it comes back?
Quote from: exnewsman on May 21, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
On the commuter rail corridor study that FSUJA did a few years back, it showed limited density and too low ridership levels to implement. But this study will tell us if the First Coast has moved the needle on any of that. It's unlikely enough to make a "system" viable, but perhaps one line would be doable. Get enough people out of their cars and on the train... maybe. Only possible using existing track though. And that 's what the initial study was based on - to ST. Augustine, to Green Cove Springs/Palatka, and to Yulee/Kings Bay.
Since most of the years between that study and now were a recession, my guess is the needle has not moved much.
With a near certainty, anything running north or northwest of downtown is going to end up being:
1. BRT
2. STREETCAR
3. RAPID-STREETCAR - a faster more Light Rail version at a low price.
Why? The stage lengths between major stops and centers are just too short and regular rail, even with the 'S' line is still rather circuitous. Such a thing could work provided they rebuilt the 'S' then straightened out the jog so it would not go into Gateway but straight north through Springfield to Busch. JAXPORT is actually and likely to be the agency that pulls the trigger on any 'S' line rebuild:
Taking ownership and control of all railroad trackage east of the Moncrief/Simpson Yard complex and north of the river all the way into Kingsland.
This opens the door for JAXPORT-NASSAU COUNTY PORT AUTHORITY merger or agreements, for a future PORT ST. MARYS GA. as part of the JAXPORT complex, and puts a neutral carrier in place that grants access to all three major railroads in the city. It also lines the Port up with the Airport area and the Free Trade Zone becomes a more attractive location along with Imeson. Someday perhaps an Airport road station?
JAXPORT is understandingly being woo'ed by CSX to "Just allow us to build a state funded bypass around the north of the airport to connect the main port with the mainline." Which is all well in good if you are CSX! It's a VERY BAD deal for FEC and NS RAILROADS and as such in the long run shoots the port in the foot by being 'America's Logistics Center.... you know? The port served by only one railroad.'
The shear power of a JAXPORT - JTA - JIA triad would be enough to get shovels turning... chirp.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 21, 2015, 02:34:48 PM
I believe our own commuter rail will show initial higher ridership on the Roosevelt Blvd route into Clay County, partly due to demographics and partly due to VISIBILITY. Nothing like sitting at a traffic light on Roosevelt and Verona, and watch a Commuter Train, DMU, RDC blow past you at 70 mph to open ones untrained eyes to rapid transit.
Better yet, there's actual congestion on Blanding and Park and there really is no way to resolve the issues facing either of them between Jax and Fleming Island.
QuoteSt. Augustine has an advantage being a much larger city as an endpoint and can attract much larger ridership. Weekend service is probably a very real possibility if JTA is smart enough to allow a bike/baggage rack at the car doors on the trains. This would allow passengers to ticket on Amtrak from NYC to JAX and transfer to commuter rail for downtown St. Augustine. The classic 'AVAILABLE' St Augustine FEC RY station is now positioned awkwardly to serve as a stop. Will the Winn-Dixie plaza on FEC Land come down? Will AAF redevelop the property? Will the tracks be shifted back to the US-1 proximity?
BTW ST AUGUSTINE, your Aircraft plant to Airport Terminal to County Complex to old FEC Station to downtown segment could be much better served by a 1923 vintage narrow-gauge streetcar running alongside San Marco/Ponce de Leon. JUST SAYIN' ;)
I agree that St. Augustine would be a good weekend destination. However, weekend service isn't a part of the plan. Just a few random trains during weekday peak hours. I doubt we have that many people commuting between St. Augustine and DT Jax in the morning. It sure doesn't appear that way on my drives between Southpoint and DT.
Would this possible commuter rail line be on the same track that AAF is looking into using for their expansion into Jax?
yes.
Quote from: thelakelander on May 21, 2015, 06:20:46 PM
Quote from: Ocklawaha on May 21, 2015, 02:34:48 PM
I believe our own commuter rail will show initial higher ridership on the Roosevelt Blvd route into Clay County, partly due to demographics and partly due to VISIBILITY. Nothing like sitting at a traffic light on Roosevelt and Verona, and watch a Commuter Train, DMU, RDC blow past you at 70 mph to open ones untrained eyes to rapid transit.
Better yet, there's actual congestion on Blanding and Park and there really is no way to resolve the issues facing either of them between Jax and Fleming Island.
The early studies done by JTA showed that the Clay County line and the St. Johns County line were very similar in terms of ridership. What has them going forward with the southeast route is political support from the county and no red light from the folks at FEC (unlike CSX).
I dont see this being built. Not enough people to use it. Jax is too small.
That Blanding corridor would be best served if there was a way to follow the west bank of the Ortega with LRT crossing over to the main gate OF has JAX aka: 'YUKON' and thus paralleling the CSX north into the city. Such a line could use the river corridor to remain free from auto congestion, high speed, and frankly, if you got as far south as the Oak Leaf, turning south along the old Interurban grade (M/L Old Middleburg Road) you could keep going far southwest. A LRT junction at NAS YUKON a second route could tap Orange Park, Doctors Lake, Russell, Magnolia Springs and Green Cove. I wouldn't hold out much hope for the 'commuter rail' if it is locomotive hauled such as Sunrail/Tri-Rail, of ever getting south of mid Fleming Island. I believe any study will show that a large majority of the OP/Roosevelt rush is actually Bellair/OP Mall to Yukon.
Certainly the initial investment in this type of LRT would be quite high, but the payoff would be incalculably high. It could also serve as a rail/trail parkway along the river keeping civilization out whilst leaving post construction nature unmolested.
St. Augustine weekenders would not be part of any initial plan but failing to get:
AAF into Jax
Amtrak on the FEC
Combined with bringing what little Amtrak is left into the JRTC might set a precedent usable at a latter date from Orlando/Disney Park.
NATIONALLY/REGIONALLY
On a grander scale what we are seeing is the embryonic start of a State sponsored regional rail line from: St. Petersburg-Tampa-Lakeland-Orlando-Sanford-Deland-Palatka-Yukon-Jax. Under Democrats such a line will be state funded, owned and operated, under Republicans it will be some combination of private/public with tax incentives. Both will have advantages and disadvantages but with Amtrak's lethargy and eternal battles, I'm betting on Scott/FEC leading the way to some sort of 'future rail.'
We already have copy-cat operations in the making using some of this creative thinking. Indiana just killed the Hoosier State, a 4 day a week Amtrak operated loser carrying just 31,000 annual passengers to the Chicago Hub from Indianapolis. The FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION (FRA) hastened the death just as the state was taking bids to do it's own AAF with 'Iowa Pacific,' by declaring states funding railroad operations as 'railroads' bringing down huge costs and new work loads for the states to comply with. There is no telling how this could effect Florida. There is also no telling how this will effect Oklahoma which is also about to sign on with Iowa Pacific to fund it's own OKC-TULSA operations (only in this case the state DOES or recently did own the railroad).
QuoteNew federal policy led Indiana to end Chicago-Indianapolis Amtrak route
QuoteDepending on its final form, the policy being drafted by the Federal Railroad Administration could make it impossible for some states to keep their Amtrak routes running, said Patricia Quinn, who chairs the Portland, Maine-based States for Passenger Rail Coalition.
The Hoosier State line's last day of service is April 1, and the Indiana Department of Transportation in Friday's announcement blamed an emerging FRA policy that the state said would effectively deem Indiana a rail carrier even though it does not own any tracks or trains.
INDOT Commissioner Karl Browning called that idea "insane," saying it would significantly increase costs, paperwork and liability for operating the line, which was among 28 Amtrak routes of less than 750 miles affected by a law Congress passed in 2008 that forced 19 states to pick up most of the costs of those lines by late 2013.
INDOT has said it would reconsider its move to end the Hoosier State line only if the FRA or U.S. Department of Transportation reversed the rail carrier policy.
U.S. Sen. Dan Coats, R-Ind., sent a letter Wednesday to the FRA's acting administrator urging the agency to "reverse its decision" to deem INDOT a railroad carrier.
"INDOT is not in a position to assume either the additional liability or the regulatory burdens that a designation of 'railroad carrier' would impose," Coats said in a statement. A.P. NEWS WIRE
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 21, 2015, 09:45:16 PM
The early studies done by JTA showed that the Clay County line and the St. Johns County line were very similar in terms of ridership. What has them going forward with the southeast route is political support from the county and no red light from the folks at FEC (unlike CSX).
ABSOLUTELY my friend, failed to mention that one, too obvious I guess. Many railroads CSX, CN, UP, KCS are almost violently anti passenger rail of any way shape or type and will do anything within their power to blow it away. FEC has always been a maverick but their feelings seem shared by NS and BNSF to some degree. This is why I still think AAF's 'ultimate goal' is not JAX-MIA, but ATL-JAX-MIA with the Orlando link in place. Thoughts on this include:
FEC and NS now have track sharing agreements and run through on this route with freight barely stopping end to end.
NS recently going back into a limited excursion train business and a CEO making some bold positive passenger rail statements on Capitol Hill.
Guess this means that we could someday ride JTA/FEC (and believe me we might get the trains with JTA no where in site as far as this railroad is concerned) Imagine Jacksonville to Moniac and St. George! ::)
Quote from: Coolyfett on May 21, 2015, 10:12:24 PM
I dont see this being built. Not enough people to use it. Jax is too small.
You are not in reality on this one, we have finally reached the size and spread where investing now will save BILLIONS later. JAX is not too small, not to thinly populated, we sprawled but with significant easily definable corridors. Ranks in the worst traffic cities, no where near the top but to be on the list is to be warned. Has an amazing network of existent rail lines, making a JPA-JTA-JIA purchase of everything east of Moncrief/Simpson Yards and north of the river a vital cornerstone, both as a commuter rail and a true multi-modal/multi-carrier rail center.
List of United States commuter rail systems by ridership Edited to include the smaller operators and plans in North America
System Country Metropolitan area Province / State Name Avg. Weekday RidershipA-train USA Denton County Texas 1,900
Music City Star USA Nashville Tennessee 1,000
New Mexico Rail Runner Express USA Albuquerque–Santa Fe New Mexico 3,400
Northstar Commuter Rail USA Minneapolis–St. Paul Minnesota 2,500
Shore Line East USA New Haven–New London Connecticut 2,200
SunRail USA Orlando Florida 3,200
Utah Transit Authority (the FrontRunner)[6] USA Ogden–Salt Lake City–Provo Utah 16,800
WES Commuter Rail Portland - Westside communities Oregon - 1,800 daily
WHO'S NEXT according to official sources?Metropolitan Area Country Province(s) Name Official
Anchorage USA Alaska Alaska Railroad
Ann Arbor USA Michigan WALLY
Atlanta / Athens / Macon USA Georgia Georgia Rail Passenger Program,
Charlotte USA North Carolina LYNX Red Line
Cleveland USA Ohio Cleveland commuter rail
Cincinnati USA Ohio Eastern Corridor Commuter Rail
Greensboro USA North Carolina TRIAD Commuter Rail
Indianapolis USA Indiana IndyConnect Green Line
Jacksonville USA Florida First Coast Commuter Rail
Madison USA Wisconsin Dane County Commuter Rail,
Pittsburgh USA Pennsylvania Eastern Corridor
Raleigh / Durham / Cary
(Research Triangle) USA North Carolina Durham-Wake Corridor
San Antonio / Austin USA Texas LSTAR
Scranton, Pennsylvania
All those ridership statistics are strong reason to be cautious about spending millions to add a seldom operated commuter service along the FEC. The FrontRunner is really the only successful one on the list. However, that city has LRT, BRT, and streetcar to feed it with riders. If we follow the successful Salt Lake City model, we'd implement a small LRT project in the urban core first.
As for the FEC corridor, with BRT, AAF, and Amtrak possibly coming on line along that corridor, I seriously doubt random commuter rail generates half of what Sunrail pulls in now.....which is bad. The same amount of cash it would take to get such a service up and running could serve a much larger population, funding something with more frequent service in an area where the density is higher and the land use is more compatible.
I will be attending a focus group tonight to discuss the proposed south segment between DT Jax and St Augustine.
I will check back in tomorrow with the results.
I'm looking forward to your update!
Yeahhhhhhhhhhh I'm so happy
Quote from: Jason on August 31, 2015, 03:10:35 PM
I will be attending a focus group tonight to discuss the proposed south segment between DT Jax and St Augustine.
I will check back in tomorrow with the results.
Will you be receiving $60 in compensation??
The meeting last night was great. Although, not quite what I had in mind. The discussion was more of a Q&A session with other St. Augustinians, and was intended to get very preliminary input in preparation for a full feasibility study. I was expecting a more involved technical discussion, although, in hindsight, understand that this was only a small first step in the overall process. Hopefully I will be able to attend more meetings that get into the nuts and bolts.
It was refreshing to discuss our concerns, wants, and needs with other like minded people. The organizers were very nice and seemed to have a personal interest in the proposed route.
The proposed route is nothing different than what has already been posted here in the past.
Was JTA involved at all? who led the focus group? very curious?
I can think of alot of weekend tourists who would want to avoid the parking/driving logjam in St Augustine, especially around July 4th and around Christmas Lights time.
I would much rather spend my dough taking a train from Bowden Station with free parking to St Augustine than wait in that eternal jam to reach a paid parking garage.
But you have to have weekend service to support it.
Is there enough demand?
Quote from: fsujax on September 01, 2015, 02:06:43 PM
Was JTA involved at all? who led the focus group? very curious?
Honestly, I don't recall the name of the group. Pretty sure they were just an independent agency that was working for Parsons.
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 31, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Jason on August 31, 2015, 03:10:35 PM
I will be attending a focus group tonight to discuss the proposed south segment between DT Jax and St Augustine.
I will check back in tomorrow with the results.
Will you be receiving $60 in compensation??
Yes, we were compensated.
Quote from: spuwho on September 01, 2015, 02:36:36 PM
I can think of alot of weekend tourists who would want to avoid the parking/driving logjam in St Augustine, especially around July 4th and around Christmas Lights time.
I would much rather spend my dough taking a train from Bowden Station with free parking to St Augustine than wait in that eternal jam to reach a paid parking garage.
But you have to have weekend service to support it.
Is there enough demand?
Honestly, the line would not break ridership records if it were to open tomorrow, however, the potential is there for massive future growth along the corridor. Now is the time to establish the plan before development overtakes all of the available land. This would allow for all of the new growth to be built around the line versus having to shoehorn it later.
Tourism/leisure travelers would likely make up the majority of the riders in the beginning, until the developers bring in the true working commuters that would use it daily.
Quote from: Jason on September 01, 2015, 02:41:33 PM
Quote from: ProjectMaximus on August 31, 2015, 07:50:45 PM
Quote from: Jason on August 31, 2015, 03:10:35 PM
I will be attending a focus group tonight to discuss the proposed south segment between DT Jax and St Augustine.
I will check back in tomorrow with the results.
Will you be receiving $60 in compensation??
Yes, we were compensated.
I asked because there was a poster on here trying to get people to participate in a focus group in exchange for $60. I think had she been able to reveal the topic she would have gotten much more interest from those on this board. Had I known what it was about, I would've done it for free lol.
I am a subconsultant to Parsons Brinckerhoff on the JTA commuter rail study and I'm handling the market research tasks. No connection with the other poster asking for focus group participants. We solicited from people who live and work along the corridor, and had previously expressed interest via a survey.
It was nice to have Jason at the St. Aug group. All the participants' input has been very helpful.
oh ok. I don't feel bad about not reaching out to that lady then. ;D