QuoteThe long-rumored expansion of Kickbacks Gastropub on King Street is about to move a step closer. Owner Steve Flores said he is set to close July 1 on the building next door, a two-story residential duplex.
He plans to tear that building down. What he builds there is still dependent on how negotations with the city and Riverside Avondale Preservation work out. It could either be a separate restaurant or an addition to Kickbacks.
"If they allow us to do what we want," Flores said, "we'd have another 150-200 seats and a cellar undernearth with Belgian bar, a Belgian dining room and 1,000 square feet to cellar beer.
"That's what we want to do."
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/amber-waves/2011-06-20/story/kickbacks-planning-expansion#ixzz1Pr8gRHnO
+1000
I'm glad they are expanding, but it would be nice if they bought the ugly building on the corner and tore it down instead.
RAP is going to let Kickbacks destroy that Duplex? They are generally in the business of restoration.
According to the property appraiser, that duplex was built in 1923. Working with RAP on this one should be interesting.
As much as I'm normally against the demolition of any residential structure in a historic district, the 2 duplexes next door are holding that entire block from reaching its potential. Talk about your rentals that have been run into the ground and your slum lords that simply refuse to put any money into maintaining the property. I say let those slumlords cash and move elsewhere. Just my 2 cents.
Can't Kickbacks buy the two buildings, kick out the sketchy tenants and rehab them so they are cool, useful and historic? Isn't tearing down historic components of the neighborhood what we are fighting against? They could, at the very least, preserve the facades. Sorry, I don't want King Street in our unique historic district to look like another bland, characterless strip in Orlando.
What does RAP say about this?
As much as I love the old houses in this neighborhood, I feel like we all have to face facts when it comes to buildings like that duplex next to KB. Nobody in their right mind is going to rehab a duplex that sits between an insanely busy bar / restaurant that serves until 3AM and a sketchy convenience store. It's the only residence on that block. We can either tear it down now or let it sit and rot for another decade until it gets condemned.
Normally it would be hard for me to imagine that RAP would support the demolition of a 90 year old building in the historic district. However, I just checked this one out on google maps. Looks like it's been significantly altered over the years and has lost a lot of its character. Not sure, but I think it may even have a little Southern Brick and Stone where part of the front porch was closed in!
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NON O NO NO NO NO.......................................
This expansion will never work. THERE IS NOT ENOUGH PARKING.
ok That was a joke. Kickbacks thrives even though they have 5 parking spaces. The excuse for every lame place in Jax is we dont have enough parking ( Read: The Landing). Kickbacks makes their customers Happy so they come back even if they have to park 2 blocks (or more) away.
Go Kickbacks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote " According to tthe property appraiser the building was built in 1923."
That was also the last year it had any meaningful maintenance.
Our landlord also owns the duplex next door to us (that we are purchasing) and I think she's actually done an pretty good job, particularly in the last few years, of keeping the property maintained and rented to some fairly decent tenants under EXTREMELY difficult circumstances. She has also made many improvements to the property and has made every effort to attempt to "polish a turd". Not a lot of landlords would have made any improvements to a property in this situation. She's also been an excellent landlord to us. Most people affectionately refer to the two multi family houses on King St. as "the crack houses" but I feel that in recent years, it only applies to the structure closest to the gas station.
Anywho, we've had some preliminary discussions/meetings with RAP and the city and over the course of the rest of 2011 we will continue to work with both entities to determine what we can and can't do and what we should and shouldn't do with the property adjoining our restaurant.
The purchase of the duplex next door and the building we currently occupy is very important to us and our continued existence. Older generations refer to our building as the Giuseppe's Pizza building. More recent generations refer to it as Ezele's BBQ building. It is our hope that future generations will refer to it as the Kickbacks Gastropub building.
To accomplish this, we must grow. As I've said before, we have become victims of our own success. I can't watch our customers suffer any more and I can't stand to see new customers every day think we're incompetent because we don't have the infrastructure to do what we do the right way. I think we can be better, way better, and I think in this unique set of circumstances, getting better means getting bigger. We have the best customers and employees in the city and they deserve more.
@ Brian, not only are they the only residences in the block, you have to go pretty far south on King St to find the next residence.
@ Miss Fixit, I believe that the alterations that you speak of over the years (especially to the front porch) to the duplex are what make the property a "non contributing structure" (despite it's age).
Thanks for the info Steve. You are one of my favorite lunch spots.
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on June 21, 2011, 01:55:41 AM
@ Brian, not only are they the only residences in the block, you have to go pretty far south on King St to find the next residence.
@ Miss Fixit, I believe that the alterations that you speak of over the years (especially to the front porch) to the duplex are what make the property a "non contributing structure" (despite it's age).
Steve, you're exactly right - if an historic building is significantly altered it can become a non-contributing structure and therefore will not be protected by certain preservation laws. I've only looked closely at this one on Google - so I might have a different impression in person - but it seems you could make a good argument that this building is non-contributing.
It sounds like the issue is what Kickbacks can build on the site, not whether the building can be demolished. Is that correct?
I'm interested to hear what RAP says about it. They have a good track record of erring on the side of caution when businesses want to alter historic buildings, so I'll trust their judgment if they're on board with demolishing the duplex.
Quote from: Miss Fixit on June 21, 2011, 12:27:37 AM
Normally it would be hard for me to imagine that RAP would support the demolition of a 90 year old building in the historic district. However, I just checked this one out on google maps. Looks like it's been significantly altered over the years and has lost a lot of its character. Not sure, but I think it may even have a little Southern Brick and Stone where part of the front porch was closed in!
Does anyone remember when these alterations occured?
@ Tacachale, you are correct...the duplex is already considered to be "non-contributing" by RAP for reasons previously discussed and it can be torn down. At issue is what we can/should build on the site if we tear it down. As mentioned earlier, we are in dialogue with RAP and the city to work through these issues.
Will there be cellar tours or special events?? It sounds amazing. It will definitely have regional, if not national, notoriety.
Yeah, the plans do sound amazing. There's a flat out awesome belgian beer bar in Asheville; I'd love to see something like that in Jax. I hope a satisfactory deal is worked out with RAP and the city.
@ Captain Zissou, I'd rather not yet discuss the specific plans, but I'm glad you are excited about it. I assure you that I'm extremely excited about the possibilities but I have to temper it for a little while. It really is amazing how many people have been coming in recently from out of town or out of state to visit us. Apparently there is some regional or national interest in what we are doing. It blows me away every day.
@ Tacachale, You are no doubt referring to the Thirsty Monk and I agree, its awesome. I just got back from a spectacular new Belgian bar/restaurant in Greenville that just opened beneath Barley's, owned by Barley's, called The Trappe Door that I'm sure you would love if you enjoy the Thisty Monk.
KickbacksSteve, Now all you need is your own brewery, then you won't have to import the product!!!!
another 150 - 200 seats AND an accessible basement!?
sounds like you'll also need a parking garage.
:-\ :-X
Quote from: ricker on June 30, 2011, 02:54:40 AM
sounds like you'll also need a parking garage.
:-\ :-X
Before KB expands, can I get lunch ordered and served in under 40 minutes in the currently sized establishment? By the way, I love the beer selection during post work hours, and I love the atmosphere, but my office has put KB on the lunch ban list because the service is so slow.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on December 15, 2011, 12:11:07 AM
Before KB expands, can I get lunch ordered and served in under 40 minutes in the currently sized establishment? By the way, I love the beer selection during post work hours, and I love the atmosphere, but my office has put KB on the lunch ban list because the service is so slow.
True. I've actually only eaten there twice & both times it was incredibly slow. Like, to the point where we thought of just leaving.
And the one time it was super early in the morning when there was MAYBE 3 other customers in there. So I'm not sure I'm buying the whole "we just need more space & it'll all be better" argument.
I remain impressed with what they are able to do out of their current [tiny] kitchen!
The ONLY problem I see with the plan to build upon their undeniable success is that the new space will further highlight the less than perfect condition of 918 King St.
I liked the idea of removing the median island between Post and College in favor of angled nose-in parking on BOTH sides of the Street.
I also wished KB had considered the air rights to both the gas station and the L-shaped building which houses CM Love's statefarm office with Kingpin e cigarettes.
Quote from: peestandingup on December 15, 2011, 12:27:19 AM
Quote from: JaxNative68 on December 15, 2011, 12:11:07 AM
Before KB expands, can I get lunch ordered and served in under 40 minutes in the currently sized establishment? By the way, I love the beer selection during post work hours, and I love the atmosphere, but my office has put KB on the lunch ban list because the service is so slow.
True. I've actually only eaten there twice & both times it was incredibly slow. Like, to the point where we thought of just leaving.
And the one time it was super early in the morning when there was MAYBE 3 other customers in there. So I'm not sure I'm buying the whole "we just need more space & it'll all be better" argument.
Steve has commented on the issue in this and other threads:
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on April 12, 2011, 05:35:58 PM
I don't really want to say too much about the specifics of the project because it is very much in the beginning stages and much is still to be determined. I would like to, however, speak to the motivation for doing the project.
Ever since I took over the management/ownership of the restaurant 3.5 years ago (along with my friend and minority partner, Ed Salem) it has been my goal to "suck a little less" everyday. After over 1000 days of working hard to make Kickbacks Gastropub a better place, we have become very much victims of our own success. It pains me to no end for people to come to Kickbacks and leave unhappy. It doesn't happen often anymore, but when it does, it's usually for the same reason...the food takes too long to get to the table!
I'm not one to make excuses and I can no longer watch my customers and staff suffer thru long ticket times. The kitchen space in our location has been large enough and efficient enough to service different restaurants for many decades and many generations. It just isn't the case any longer for us, and as I've said, we are victims of our own success. The growth of our customer base has outpaced the growth of our infrastructure. Our menu is quite tricky to execute at times and there is room on the line for only 4 cooks at one time. My back of the house staff is amazing at what they do, but when we have 180 people seated and the phone is ringing off the hook, ticket times get outrageous. It's NOT acceptable and I'm NOT ok with it. Our customers are amazing and normally very understanding about the situation, and we are so thankful to them, but it's unfair to ask them to endure suffering any longer. I used to pacify people by reminding them that at least they didn't have to wait an hour to be seated, but now we are on a wait to be seated most friday and saturday evenings.
My staff needs to be put in a position to succeed and I'm the one that needs to put them in that position. We need to expand the size of our kitchen 2 to 3 fold. But I suppose as long as we are expanding the kitchen, we might as well give people more places to sit and a nice outdoor patio. And, as long as we are going through that trouble and expense, we might as well provide more food and more drinks and more fun. Does Goozlepipe and Guttyworks sound like it would be a fun place for the family to go hang out, eat and drink? Sounds pretty good to me... :-)
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on June 21, 2011, 01:44:35 AM
The purchase of the duplex next door and the building we currently occupy is very important to us and our continued existence. Older generations refer to our building as the Giuseppe's Pizza building. More recent generations refer to it as Ezele's BBQ building. It is our hope that future generations will refer to it as the Kickbacks Gastropub building.
To accomplish this, we must grow. As I've said before, we have become victims of our own success. I can't watch our customers suffer any more and I can't stand to see new customers every day think we're incompetent because we don't have the infrastructure to do what we do the right way. I think we can be better, way better, and I think in this unique set of circumstances, getting better means getting bigger. We have the best customers and employees in the city and they deserve more.
That's some of the most refreshing reasoning I've ever heard from a business owner.
RAP is picking up their efforts on squashing this expansion. I just received my RAP newsletter and they are providing a petition against Kickback's expansion. As well as links to more information regarding the expansion.
QuoteThis is a pivotal time for our neighborhood! Take a moment to learn more about the project and let your voice be heard. Sign our petition today to let the people on LUZ know that you want Kickbacks to grow responsibly and join the conversation on our Facebook page to share your thoughts.
Here is a link to the petition.
www.change.org/petitions/luz-encourage-responsible-growth-in-the-riverside-avondale-historic-district
Full discolure I am in support of Kickback's expansion.
Expand to Springfield! plenty of space and parking along Main St!
Quote from: Lucasjj on December 15, 2011, 03:23:27 PM
RAP is picking up their efforts on squashing this expansion. I just received my RAP newsletter and they are providing a petition against Kickback's expansion. As well as links to more information regarding the expansion.
QuoteThis is a pivotal time for our neighborhood! Take a moment to learn more about the project and let your voice be heard. Sign our petition today to let the people on LUZ know that you want Kickbacks to grow responsibly and join the conversation on our Facebook page to share your thoughts.
Here is a link to the petition.
www.change.org/petitions/luz-encourage-responsible-growth-in-the-riverside-avondale-historic-district
Full discolure I am in support of Kickback's expansion.
Time for a counter-petition...
He could include it in each menu, similar to his other letter. Let him make his case for expansion over RAP's position and give the option to ask the server for a petition to sign. He could also throw something up on their Facebook page.
Quote from: JaxNative68 on December 15, 2011, 12:11:07 AM
Before KB expands, can I get lunch ordered and served in under 40 minutes in the currently sized establishment? By the way, I love the beer selection during post work hours, and I love the atmosphere, but my office has put KB on the lunch ban list because the service is so slow.
As I understand it one of the main motivators of the Expansion is to increase kitchen capacity and efficiency.
Deleting that one landscaped median island in that one block and creating angled nose-in parking accommodation to mirror the current design on the east side of the street could double the available parking stalls on that one side of King Street.
Quote from: stephendare on December 16, 2011, 09:43:18 AM
Well, RAP is certainly wasting no time in ratcheting up the situtation.
Online petitions, and threats of lawsuits against the city galore. I caught up with a couple of attorneys last night at one of the breweries in the district that RAP would like to apply this bizarre theory of parking based development and it looks like this is going to turn out to be a cross litigated melee.
Wonder how much money this is going to end up costing everyone involved, including the taxpayers.
Enough to get a circulator shuttle system started in Riverside? At least.
I don't understand it. There's a successful restaurant that wants to expand, which will enliven that commercial corridor. But the people living there don't want it enlivened? Wasn't it a commercial area when they bought their homes? Is this a situation where they bought homes in an economically depressed area (i.e. lack of businesses) and hoped it would STAY depressed?
I just don't understand it. I got the petition email too. Read it and deleted it.
Quote from: ricker on December 16, 2011, 02:37:27 AM
Deleting that one landscaped median island in that one block and creating angled nose-in parking accommodation to mirror the current design on the east side of the street could double the available parking stalls on that one side of King Street.
That median is only about 10 feet wide- not really wide enough to add angled parking in the median. Some sort of shuttle from the St. Vincents area would be more effective.
Valet service would be nice. New ownership at First Guaranty might go for a private parking service that wouldn't be leaving beer bottles in the lot.
Quote from: cline on December 16, 2011, 09:54:38 AM
That median is only about 10 feet wide- not really wide enough to add angled parking in the median. Some sort of shuttle from the St. Vincents area would be more effective.
I thought he was saying if you eliminated the median, you could put angled parking on the Kickbacks side, just like the other side already has. This way you would better utilize the parking in the area rather than parallel parking.
Quote from: Bativac on December 16, 2011, 09:51:55 AM
I don't understand it. There's a successful restaurant that wants to expand, which will enliven that commercial corridor. But the people living there don't want it enlivened? Wasn't it a commercial area when they bought their homes? Is this a situation where they bought homes in an economically depressed area (i.e. lack of businesses) and hoped it would STAY depressed?
I would like to see how many residents areactually against this in that area. I live a block from there and a couple of posters do as well. I am not in opposition of this, and they do not seem to be either.
Quote from: Lucasjj on December 16, 2011, 10:22:16 AM
Quote from: cline on December 16, 2011, 09:54:38 AM
That median is only about 10 feet wide- not really wide enough to add angled parking in the median. Some sort of shuttle from the St. Vincents area would be more effective.
I thought he was saying if you eliminated the median, you could put angled parking on the Kickbacks side, just like the other side already has. This way you would better utilize the parking in the area rather than parallel parking.
Quote from: Bativac on December 16, 2011, 09:51:55 AM
I don't understand it. There's a successful restaurant that wants to expand, which will enliven that commercial corridor. But the people living there don't want it enlivened? Wasn't it a commercial area when they bought their homes? Is this a situation where they bought homes in an economically depressed area (i.e. lack of businesses) and hoped it would STAY depressed?
I would like to see how many residents areactually against this in that area. I live a block from there and a couple of posters do as well. I am not in opposition of this, and they do not seem to be either.
I misunderstood. Yes, that probably would allow for a few more spots via angled parking. I thought he was talking about doing something like on Edgewood in Murray Hill.
I still think some sort of shuttle is the solution long term though.
Quote from: JeffreyS on December 16, 2011, 10:02:12 AM
Valet service would be nice. New ownership at First Guaranty might go for a private parking service that wouldn't be leaving beer bottles in the lot.
First Guaranty just needs to sell off portions of their lot. There is no reason they should have such a large campus in a dense urban neighborhood.
Quote from: Captain Zissou on December 16, 2011, 11:05:35 AM
Quote from: JeffreyS on December 16, 2011, 10:02:12 AM
Valet service would be nice. New ownership at First Guaranty might go for a private parking service that wouldn't be leaving beer bottles in the lot.
First Guaranty just needs to sell off portions of their lot. There is no reason they should have such a large campus in a dense urban neighborhood.
There's plenty of privately owned surface parking in the area. Problem is there are not a lot of willing sellers.
Quote
They apparently polled their members and the poll said that the residents of Riverside were concerned about parking, and wanted RAP to be more proactive on the issue.
And we are to assume there was no selection bias or leading questions??? I cry foul.
DEAR RAP
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2392/2064360004_64bde7a439.jpg)
(http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/Little_Rock_23_sm.JPG)
WITH LOVE, OCK...
QuoteThey apparently polled their members
Not me, and I have property on Dellwood, so thanks RAP for the head's up!
Quote from: stephendare on December 16, 2011, 12:27:44 PM
We sat down with several members of RAP earlier this week over these matters, and I have to say that I was very disappointed to hear how they feel about the subject.
They apparently polled their members and the poll said that the residents of Riverside were concerned about parking, and wanted RAP to be more proactive on the issue.
From that they have extrapolated a mandate to speak for the neighborhood immediately surrounding this area, along with a couple of other RAP members who live nearby.
Lucas, I think if the immediate neighborhood were actually asked about the issue in such a way that was unprejudiced by the RAP claims that this will be one of the largest restaurants in the city (not even close. for example River City Brewing Company has over 700 seats in the single restaurant, not 250) or that property which does not belong to riverside residents is somehow being taken from them (public parking on public streets), most of them would not prefer that RAP try and make decisions for the business district.
Stephen, I hope you know that I love you, but you're puliing these figures out of your butt. The Jacksonville Fire Fighters are the source for the 200-seat capacity figure. What are your sources?
Let's get some parking garages, express roads, parking meters and some big minimum setbacks for new businesses. Yes Riverside you can be Oakleaf or Flemming Island.
Such Narrative empowered Beltway Boosters........
Decisions for business interests,public facility do affect the tone,feel and function of Neighborhood.
Ultimately Riverside,Avondale neighborhoods exist for the residents.The area's desirable attributes exist in large part due to cautious,discerning,restrictive stance.
Consider the transformation of Ortega River Boatyard;Ortega Landing.
Residents loved and supported Ortega River Boat Yard.
A key local and regional economic driver,in fact historical significance,the need for ORBY upgrade was widely acknowledged.ORBY's transformation a train wreck conducted under the Planning umbrella.
With over 180 expanded docks and multiple condo units packed on to the parcel,peak parking pressure was assumed to simply spill over to the adjacent neighborhood.A Planning shrug of the shoulder,a collective middle finger.
During contentious rezone process many residents wished that their neighborhood was within RAP boundary,assumed stature,protective veil.
Everyone wants growth in this city, unless it is in their backyard. A mentality that will not get Jacksonville moving forward, and will continue to contribute to more sprawl. We can't keep building additional nodes without connecting them. Sorry folks but that means some new buildings and expansions within your neighborhood may need to take place. The dichotomy it brings should be embraced, not bashed over the head.
Quote from: north miami on December 17, 2011, 06:08:26 AM
Such Narrative empowered Beltway Boosters........
dude...this has NOTHING to do with the outer beltway!
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 17, 2011, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: north miami on December 17, 2011, 06:08:26 AM
Such Narrative empowered Beltway Boosters........
dude...this has NOTHING to do with the outer beltway!
I don't know I see the new attitude being embraced by
Oakleaf err I mean
Fleming Island sorry
Julington Creek Oops Riverside.
QuoteEveryone wants growth in this city, unless it is in their backyard. A mentality that will not get Jacksonville moving forward, and will continue to contribute to more sprawl. We can't keep building additional nodes without connecting them. Sorry folks but that means some new buildings and expansions within your neighborhood may need to take place. The dichotomy it brings should be embraced, not bashed over the head.
Whoa, Mayor Brown, nice to hear from you!
Here we are, at Kickbacks's, enjoying our evening. We placed our order a while ago and are waiting for our dinner. A nice young lady with a book comes to sit at our table. She's collecting signatures in favor of the Kickback's expansion. Now, my dinner companion and I have been talking about the issues surrounding the expansion proposal. We already agreed earlier that we'd like to see the place expand. But, we both live in Avondale and have concerns about the parking situation on King.
Anyway, she sits down and gives us the hard sell. She tells us about the parking they'll put out front and the parking they'll put out back. She said the parking out back would be "for us" and my companion thinks that means for customers. I explain that it's actually for employees. Anyway, she listed off a number of factually inaccurate statements about the expansion. Or maybe I could be more fair and say there was a lot of "spin" being applied to the issue. We declined to sign. She said let her know if we changed our minds and didn't want RAP to tell them what they can and can't do, to find her to sign.
She's going from table to table. She has a book with her with lots of signatures. But they are somewhat questionable in my mind. It's a plain book with signatures. No petition language. It's their "petition," but once they talk about the numbers, I just wanted my experience with the petition to be documented.
Competing petitions in the neighborhood is not how a useful compromise will develop, IMHO.
Unfortunately, it seems like the line in the sand has been drawn. To be honest, each side may be doing some embellishing to get people to align with their position. I'm actually fine with letting this play out by having both sides getting the opportunity to state their position and the zoning administrator or city council determining the final decision.
I think that's where it's heading. I told the Kickback's worker, truthfully, that I had no intention of signing either petition. When the time comes I might make some calls, but honestly, I want to see Kickback's expand. This is wrapped up in the much larger issue of transit and growth management in the urban core and I'm a little worried over the outcome of unchecked commercial expansion in the historic district. As conflicting as my statements may sound...
Jimmy, I very much respect the fact that you weren't interested in signing our petition (or RAP's). Our petition language was at the beginning of the petition. I would love to spend time speaking with you the next time you come by to discuss the actual facts as they relate our project and to RAP's appeal if you are interested. I certainly understand that anyone who has read or heard RAP's position about our project could misconstrue our dialogue as a "spin". If you are interested, please ask for me the next time you are in or text or call and I will meet you. 904-759-1747. Thank you.
Quote from: Jimmy on December 17, 2011, 11:46:44 PM
I think that's where it's heading. I told the Kickback's worker, truthfully, that I had no intention of signing either petition. When the time comes I might make some calls, but honestly, I want to see Kickback's expand. This is wrapped up in the much larger issue of transit and growth management in the urban core and I'm a little worried over the outcome of unchecked commercial expansion in the historic district. As conflicting as my statements may sound...
I see the more significant issue/solution being the development of an efficient transit system for that area of town and Riverside making sure their parking/transportation plan complements that system. It would be horrible to get such as project in the North Florida TPO's LRTP, secure funding for it in the mobility plan, and make sure it fits within the overlay to have the neighborhood its supposed to help oppose the thing, when its time to finally move forward. On the flip end, it would be great to see the community vocally back such a concept and utilize its pending presence as part of a solution to the parking challenges they believe they have.
I was there last night too, and enthusiastically signed the petition. And I am not usually someone who signs things like that.
I will most likely sign it at lunch tomorrow.
Thanks, Steve, that's awfully decent of you. I'll ask for you next time I'm in. I have no intention of signing either petition because, as Ennis said, both sides seem to be embellishing their case with their respective signers. I don't want any part of that.
Quote from: tufsu1 on December 17, 2011, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: north miami on December 17, 2011, 06:08:26 AM
Such Narrative empowered Beltway Boosters........
dude...this has NOTHING to do with the outer beltway!
Not directly,of course.
"Inevitable Growth" Narrative.
No doubt, over your head,as anticipated.
hmmmm....now I recall, RAP, Ortega references to value of beltway re network alleviation Duval county.
Tufsu Beltway (and vastly related......) Consultant Rate reduced many %.
I kick-started this post; done did gone cold june,fast forward to mid December and see little valuable cascade forward.
Quote from: stephendare on December 17, 2011, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: JaxNative68 on December 17, 2011, 09:34:07 AM
Everyone wants growth in this city, unless it is in their backyard. A mentality that will not get Jacksonville moving forward, and will continue to contribute to more sprawl. We can't keep building additional nodes without connecting them. Sorry folks but that means some new buildings and expansions within your neighborhood may need to take place. The dichotomy it brings should be embraced, not bashed over the head.
If this conversation had been going on in 1993, Five Points would still be an abandoned, one and a half block district, bordering on an abandoned hospital and no starbucks.
In fact the transformation described above did happen....yes?? Under the protective RAP veil,the discerning,protective stance further positioned via Overlay.
Quote from: Ocklawaha on December 16, 2011, 04:02:07 PM
DEAR RAP
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2392/2064360004_64bde7a439.jpg)
(http://www.railwaypreservation.com/vintagetrolley/Little_Rock_23_sm.JPG)
WITH LOVE, OCK...
All that for a pint (or six) and Pub Fritters??????? As we have been doing for the past few decades...?
RAP has been in existence since.........??
Quote from: north miami on December 19, 2011, 08:21:09 PM
RAP has been in existence since.........??
Longer than I have!
"In the 1970s, a handful of residents watched with dismay as unique historical structures were left in disrepair or demolished before their eyes. These concerned citizens, led by Dr. Wayne Wood, decided to take action and formed Riverside Avondale Preservation in
1974 with the aim of preserving the unique scenic, cultural and historical atmosphere of the neighborhood.
In that first year the organization hired an Executive Director, published the first newspaper, and developed and coordinated member events like the Arts Festival, the Home Tour, a Fourth of July Picnic and a Haunted House on Halloween. The group also began to identify and organize opposition to activities that threatened the area’s well being, such as large-scale developments, proposed bridges and roadways that might divide the district, and the possible loss of a neighborhood school and library." Much more at http://www.riversideavondale.org/index.php?id=7
I guess not? The RAP House is something. And I used to call any house with a placard on it a RAP house.
What was a "RAP house?"
kick started after a well deserved June slumber,as if dawg burrowed in under historical off grade residence,this thread best just left as is.
Why not take at least two daze to reply to anything here??
QuoteI see the more significant issue/solution being the development of an efficient transit system for that area of town and Riverside making sure their parking/transportation plan complements that system. It would be horrible to get such as project in the North Florida TPO's LRTP, secure funding for it in the mobility plan, and make sure it fits within the overlay to have the neighborhood its supposed to help oppose the thing, when its time to finally move forward. On the flip end, it would be great to see the community vocally back such a concept and utilize its pending presence as part of a solution to the parking challenges they believe they have.
I would like to fully stand behind this sentiment.
Stephen, I think RAP is moving up, literally, trying to buy the Yellow Structure at the corner of King and Riverside. You know the thing that has been EXIT realty, a piano store and I can't remember all the other things its been.
Does this house have a name, besides the prospective RAP HOUSE?
In case you were planning on attending the LUZ meeting tonight on behalf of Kickbacks', they have posted the following on their Facebook page...
"We are asking all of our supporters to NOT come to the LUZ meeting tonight. RAP's appeal of our parking deviation will be deferred until a later date (although their supporters will most likely be in attendance anyway). We continue to try and reach an amicable resolution to RAP's objections and we ask that you not waste the time of the LUZ members by speaking to issues that won't be decided tonight."
Was just reported on CBS 47 that Steve and Rap came to arrangement, no details released, but they did report 249 seats in the facility. No report on parking.
Hopefully more details trickle out. Congrats Steve! Now let's tear the muther down and get some progress going!
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 20, 2011, 10:07:23 PM
Stephen, I think RAP is moving up, literally, trying to buy the Yellow Structure at the corner of King and Riverside. You know the thing that has been EXIT realty, a piano store and I can't remember all the other things its been.
Does this house have a name, besides the prospective RAP HOUSE?
I made an offer on that property and was turned down today, there were multiple offers on it. I am unaware of who the prospective buyer is, but I believe that one of the bids was from out of the country. RAP is currently using the commercial space on the first floor of the main building for free.
Does anyone know if an agreement for Kickbacks' expansion has been reached? Channel 4 was there last night, but I can't find any related story on their website. The reporter posted on Kickbacks' facebook page saying that they will be there tonight, but doesn't tell why. A person commented on channel 4's facebook page and said "they got approved for expansion".
They were there for the story on the health inspectors that were charged with bribery and fraud yesterday.
Quote from: JFman00 on April 03, 2012, 10:32:09 PM
Quote from: mtraininjax on December 20, 2011, 10:07:23 PM
Stephen, I think RAP is moving up, literally, trying to buy the Yellow Structure at the corner of King and Riverside. You know the thing that has been EXIT realty, a piano store and I can't remember all the other things its been.
Does this house have a name, besides the prospective RAP HOUSE?
I made an offer on that property and was turned down today, there were multiple offers on it. I am unaware of who the prospective buyer is, but I believe that one of the bids was from out of the country. RAP is currently using the commercial space on the first floor of the main building for free.
Would you mind telling us what you offered? I was considering doing the same, but the place (in my opinion) is overpriced, and don't want to waste my time putting together an offer if: (1) I'm going to be offering what you got turned down for and (2) there are multiple offers already on the table. You can PM me if you want, post here, or ignore altogether. I understand either way. (As recently as Home Tour weekend, the building was still for same, from what I hear.)
PM sent
Just got this via email from RAP.
QuoteSettlement Reached with Kickbacks Owners
In early April, Riverside Avondale Preservation and Kickbacks reached a mutually agreeable compromise regarding the proposed Goozlepipe and Guttyworks restaurant and RAP’s appeal. The parties agreed that Kickbacks could develop the proposed restaurant if it provides 30 or 31 customer parking spaces on an off-site parking lot within 400 feet of the restaurant, one additional ADA parking space in the public right of way in front of the restaurant, and two employee parking spaces on-site. This will supply the 33 spaces for the restaurant that are required by the Riverside Avondale Zoning Overlay.
The design of the parking lot, including lighting, landscaping and buffers, will comply with the City’s Zoning Code and the Riverside Avondale Zoning Overlay. The parking lot will be legally tied to the operation of the new restaurant and the purchase must be complete before development of the new restaurant begins. If Kickbacks is not able to acquire and provide the off-site parking lot, the parties have agreed to a limitation on the size of the proposed restaurant and seating area in order to address the Zoning Overlay’s parking requirements. Click here for additional details regarding the compromise.
Based on the parties’ agreement, on April 3, 2012 the Land Use and Zoning Committee granted RAP’s appeal of the administrative deviation from nineteen (19) on-site spaces to zero (0), and recommended that the fees for RAP’s administrative deviation appeal and Kickback’s first administrative deviation application be refunded. The zoning exception on appeal was remanded to the Planning Commission for consideration with the second application for administrative deviation, in light of the parties’ compromise.
On April 10, 2012 the City Council approved the LUZ’s decision. The zoning exception, second administrative deviation, and a variance regarding the parking lot will be heard at the Planning Commission meeting on Thursday, May 10, 2012. This public meeting begins at 1:00pm and will be held in the City Council Chambers at City Hall.
RAP is pleased to have been able to work with Kickbacks to negotiate a resolution of the appeal issues involved with the Goozlepipe and Guttyworks restaurant. RAP believes the result of the parties’ efforts is a positive compromise for the neighborhood. Additionally, RAP continues to work diligently to find long term solutions for the growing parking problems in the neighborhood’s commercial districts.
Was just coming to post that I'd received the same email. The link within the email gives more detail on both the parking option and the smaller-scale option:
http://www.riversideavondale.org/index.php?id=219
Yay! A new parking lot! Just what the historic district needs.
Seriously though, good news on the compromise, hopefully this doesn't derail the plans.
I am happy to see this resolved. I assume the lot is going in behind the Chinese Restaurant on Post. There is an open lot there and a hearing notice sign has been up on the property.
Quote from: Lucasjj on May 08, 2012, 01:36:52 PM
I am happy to see this resolved. I assume the lot is going in behind the Chinese Restaurant on Post. There is an open lot there and a hearing notice sign has been up on the property.
Yes, I'm pretty sure that's the one- behind Panda House.
^Is it vacant now? What's the deal?
Vacant grass lot.
http://g.co/maps/ggkbn
It is a vacant commercially zoned lot.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 08, 2012, 01:38:13 PM
^Is it vacant now? What's the deal?
It is vacant right now. There are some mature trees there right now though. Hopefully those will be mitigated.
and I would like to see G&G keep the lot private and strictly enforce parking to be designated for their customers only via a tag hung from the rv mirror or through valet - not forced valet, but optional valet - in which I would hope most G&G patrons decline to have their car valeted as they prefer street parking and walking a block or two.
I know that seems childish and petty, but maybe it will actually demonstrate that another parking lot is not the answer and that a long-term decision needs to come sooner rather than later.
Quote from: cline on May 08, 2012, 01:39:40 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 08, 2012, 01:38:13 PM
^Is it vacant now? What's the deal?
It is vacant right now. There are some mature trees there right now though. Hopefully those will be mitigated.
Thanks.
Sure would have been nicer as the site of a new home or business capitalizing on its close proximity to all the activity on King Street. But it's better than knocking out an existing building or artificially restricting small business growth.
That land was recently for sale for a song. It's currently under contract. It was advertised as ideal for a multifamily residence. The shape of the lot was quite odd though.
Quote from: Non-RedNeck Westsider on May 08, 2012, 01:47:00 PM
and I would like to see G&G keep the lot private and strictly enforce parking to be designated for their customers only via a tag hung from the rv mirror or through valet - not forced valet, but optional valet - in which I would hope most G&G patrons decline to have their car valeted as they prefer street parking and walking a block or two.
I know that seems childish and petty, but maybe it will actually demonstrate that another parking lot is not the answer and that a long-term decision needs to come sooner rather than later.
I feel you. Of course all of the blow back over more good things coming to Riverside would be easier to swallow if RAP and the residents were actively lobbing for transit. Instead many seem to be trying to turn back the calendars to a less successful time for the neighborhood.
Some highlight of the 'compromise' Via the TU:
Quote
A tentative deal was reached last month. Here are high points:
- The property owners will add 30 or 31 customer parking spaces at an off-site parking lot within 400 feet of the project.
- They'll add a handicap-accessible space in the right-of-way out front and two employee spaces, labeled, in an alley.
- The lot will be legally tied to the restaurant's operation and will have lighting, landscaping and buffers that meet neighborhood zoning rules. The parking area will have a wooden privacy fence.
- The lot has to be purchased before construction starts on the new restaurant. If the owners can't/don't acquire a parking lot off-site, they've agreed to limit the new restaurant size to one floor and 2,700 square feet.
- No music or television-playing will be allowed outside after 9 p.m., and Kickbacks' owners agreed to provide security on Friday and Saturday nights.
Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/entertainment/food-and-dining/2012-05-08/story/kickbacks-rap-bringing-restaurant-settlement#ixzz1uNckrpit
Maybe it's just me, but I personally don't see how this is a compromise at all. This reeks of a one-sided deal if I've ever seen one.
Quote- The property owners will add 30 or 31 customer parking spaces at an off-site parking lot within 400 feet of the project.
The lots in the area are only 50/60 x 100? You can't fit 30 cars onto a single lot, can you? I don't believe there are many vacant lots withing 400 ft to meet that requirement.
Actually that lot has 75' on the street and goes back 146' on the east side. It is angled on the east side along the alley so it has quite a bit of room. It's one of the larger lots in the vicinity. I would assume KB has already done a site layout on the lot to come up with the 30-31 parking spots.
Quote from: cline on May 09, 2012, 10:25:31 AM
Actually that lot has 75' on the street and goes back 146' on the east side. It is angled on the east side along the alley so it has quite a bit of room. It's one of the larger lots in the vicinity. I would assume KB has already done a site layout on the lot to come up with the 30-31 parking spots.
You're right. That one might do it. It looks as though there's about 160' along the back as well.
Congrats!
I wonder how the folks who live right next door to that proposed parking lot are going to like having loud, intoxicated people starting up cars, cranking up radios and making a racket as they leave at midnight or 1 in the morning? I can see a lot of disturbing the peace police calls to that location.
Quote from: aclchampion on May 09, 2012, 12:25:32 PM
I wonder how the folks who live right next door to that proposed parking lot are going to like having loud, intoxicated people starting up cars, cranking up radios and making a racket as they leave at midnight or 1 in the morning? I can see a lot of disturbing the peace police calls to that location.
Intoxicated people shouldnt be starting up cars.
Friday and saturday nights there will be security in the parking lot.
QuoteI wonder how the folks who live right next door to that proposed parking lot are going to like having loud, intoxicated people starting up cars, cranking up radios and making a racket as they leave at midnight or 1 in the morning? I can see a lot of disturbing the peace police calls to that location.
I'm bringing my bottle rockets and firecrackers for more excitement!
Quote from: mtraininjax on May 09, 2012, 04:06:02 PM
QuoteI wonder how the folks who live right next door to that proposed parking lot are going to like having loud, intoxicated people starting up cars, cranking up radios and making a racket as they leave at midnight or 1 in the morning? I can see a lot of disturbing the peace police calls to that location.
I'm bringing my bottle rockets and firecrackers for more excitement!
As long as you shoot them off at the drunks! ;D Great idea!
What about the First Guarantee parking lot? Can't that be used when the bank isn't open? It isn't a far walk at all and in general, if there were more people parking there from the King Street bars and walking around at night, it would be a safer area. First Guarantee could use more exterior lighting and parking lot lighting, but I think it could be a good option?
Quote from: Riverrat on May 16, 2012, 10:29:29 AM
What about the First Guarantee parking lot? Can't that be used when the bank isn't open? It isn't a far walk at all and in general, if there were more people parking there from the King Street bars and walking around at night, it would be a safer area. First Guarantee could use more exterior lighting and parking lot lighting, but I think it could be a good option?
I believe there would need to be some sort of shared-use agreement with Center State (ex-First Guaranty) to use their lot since it is private. But it could be an option.
Any update on this monster? Hell, 4 places have opened up in the time it's taken to get this place together!
Quote from: RiversideLoki on August 24, 2014, 03:12:38 PM
Any update on this monster? Hell, 4 places have opened up in the time it's taken to get this place together!
When you see the inside of this place, you'll understand why it took so long and you'll be thankful they took their time. Seriously.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on August 24, 2014, 03:12:38 PM
Any update on this monster? Hell, 4 places have opened up in the time it's taken to get this place together!
I was in Kickbacks Sunday....(last Sunday)
The room is open to walk around if you wanna check it out
No doubt there is demand to "Grow"
Mellow Mushroom died down fairly quickly last night.............(yea!....Parking).....when I was the age of the folks that initialy thronged the MM (Peace Man!) easterly bar last night,the emphasis for RAP area folk,and many others was Diamond Head,River Rally (present day River City Brewery.....Downtown River Placement what the dang heck,even a swimming pool,for a few months... 8)),and later,Partners (present day "Brick") for the Avon folk and Others So Lucky You. Former Flower Shop (another one!......) transformed in to "Parners", just high aspiration yet routine restaurant...... and bar....... an overhead mirror that would reflect Noel Friedline's fingers. St Augustine's "Decoy" band played the opening at Partners....on the top of the Men's Room. Lucky Us!Decoy signature piece "Pivot" played by my request again and again and again over the years.....
PIVOT:
Somehow,I felt a little reminiscent ( in fact,after the second glass of wine- tough choice considering the many many beer choices....ah,so what..... and second in fact rather excellent veggie special slice glycemic rush.... 8)) in fact sorry for the MM folks last night,as I sat there on the far westerly cubicle,my back to the carefully crafted faux red brick wall,every fifth row exhibiting the signature brick lay alternate,and a Peace Sign on the northerly wall....hey,that's a symbol of MY Generation WTDH, (note to self- is this wall faux or 'real'?....at least no more Benham shoes on display thanks be to The J.P Hall and Avondale Gods), lookin not in,just over.Nobody was manning the "The Factor";Fire Truck.
Casbah rocked,in spite of it's thwarted, once anticipated eastward expansion.
Certainly,Alternatives,Additions might be in demand.
Please, don't kid yourself. There are way more prominent restaurants that have "put jacksonville on the map" than a bar food outlet.
We have the winner of Top Chef setting up shop in Brooklyn. We have thirteen gypsies that has been featured on food network, we have Metro Diner that did the same.
I find it hard to believe that a restaurant with a lot of beer, a lot of pennies glued to the wall, and a steampunk theme serving the same food that everywhere else is serving is gonna be revolutionary. Especially after taking two years to open.
I'm sure they'll have some cheese to pair with your whine.
Fantastic contribution to the conversation, really. You deserve an award.
I Lol'd at Tacachale's comment. If that's worth anything. 8)
"I find it hard to believe that a restaurant with a lot of beer, a lot of pennies glued to the wall, and a steampunk theme serving the same food that everywhere else is serving is gonna be revolutionary. Especially after taking two years to open."
1. We're not a restaurant with a lot of beer, we're a restaurant hard core focused on food, that will just happen to have the biggest beer selection in the entire world.
2. As anyone that knows me should know, the 1,000,000 pennies on the walls are admittedly a mistake by me because they were only intended to serve as a back drop for the amazing art that 3 neighborhood artists have spent YEARS creating. In much the same way that every great painting deserves a great frame. But I never expected them to "steal the show", as they have in your case, away from truly amazing art that you never even mentioned in your comment.
3. As I've said from the beginning, we will be serving the same menu we have for years, plus another 150 items from around the world, that you typically don't see on menus in Jacksonville, and do it at an affordable price, in fair portion, in a lightning fast service, with zero ounces of pretention added.
4. Building something special takes time. Especially when you fight the forces of nature, and are determined to build an underground, Belgian inspired dining room and bar, no matter the expense or delay. But for the basement space and all of the construction beneath and around its 3 foot thick slab, we could have opened the space a year ago.
I have never said we are awesome, and never will, in fact, all I want is for us to "suck a little less everyday". Never being satisfied has worked for me until now, and I'm not gonna change. I think your comment is rude, undeserved, misguided and an insult to myself and the work has been done so far, both in front of the curtain and behind it. The space has brought people literally to tears and if you don't think that Jacksonville should be proud of it, maybe you are part of the problem with this city and ZERO part of the solution.
This place is going to be amazing. ;)
Is there a "Grand Opening" date set yet? Can Steve post a pic or 2?
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on August 24, 2014, 10:45:51 PM
1. We're not a restaurant with a lot of beer, we're a restaurant hard core focused on food, that will just happen to have the biggest beer selection in the entire world.
Looking forward to the new menu, went in a week or two ago for the first time in a while and the food had actually gotten significantly worse. I got a buffalo chicken sandwich and apparently they've switched to tiny, clearly processed patties instead of what i remember being a solid sandwich. I had ordered hot but got mild and the waitress wouldnt send it back, eventually i got her to just bring me some hot sauce because i was tired of arguing about it.
Ramen noodles that used to come in a large bowl with tasty crackers to dip in the soup is now just a small little bowl of ramen with nothing. That combined with the crazy serving method now where they just bring out anything when its ready instead of together made for a rough night. (I got my mac and cheese, which i just remembered was also awful compared to what it used to be, clearly just microwaved and gross, a good twenty minutes after my sandwich? Brother ordered eggs and bacon that came 20 minutes apart too)
Anyway, Im a big supporter of the restaurant and everything you've done for Riverside but if you want an honest review on how you can improve here it is. I feel like the focus on speed has come at a cost of quality. I never minded waiting for good food before. And that their has been a noticeable decrease in the quality of the ingredients going into the food. It was bad for even bar food.
Quote from: RiversideLoki on August 24, 2014, 09:29:53 PM
a lot of pennies glued to the wall
Growin' up in North Miami,we had the Bottle Cap Inn- walls,and ceilings covered with bottle caps.
Time we caught up here 8)
Quote from: Slackiinoff on August 27, 2014, 05:40:34 PM
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on August 24, 2014, 10:45:51 PM
1. We're not a restaurant with a lot of beer, we're a restaurant hard core focused on food, that will just happen to have the biggest beer selection in the entire world.
Looking forward to the new menu, went in a week or two ago for the first time in a while and the food had actually gotten significantly worse. I got a buffalo chicken sandwich and apparently they've switched to tiny, clearly processed patties instead of what i remember being a solid sandwich. I had ordered hot but got mild and the waitress wouldnt send it back, eventually i got her to just bring me some hot sauce because i was tired of arguing about it.
Ramen noodles that used to come in a large bowl with tasty crackers to dip in the soup is now just a small little bowl of ramen with nothing. That combined with the crazy serving method now where they just bring out anything when its ready instead of together made for a rough night. (I got my mac and cheese, which i just remembered was also awful compared to what it used to be, clearly just microwaved and gross, a good twenty minutes after my sandwich? Brother ordered eggs and bacon that came 20 minutes apart too)
Anyway, Im a big supporter of the restaurant and everything you've done for Riverside but if you want an honest review on how you can improve here it is. I feel like the focus on speed has come at a cost of quality. I never minded waiting for good food before. And that their has been a noticeable decrease in the quality of the ingredients going into the food. It was bad for even bar food.
Opposite review here: wife and I were there with friends a couple weeks ago, and the food (as ever) was fantastic. In fact, in my case anyway, Kickbacks is one of the only places in town where I have not had a bad experience. Slow service? Sometimes, but it's a hangout spot, not a "grab and go" place, so speed never bothered me. But the quality has never been anything less than excellent.
Can't wait for the "other side" to open!!
Apache, the owner is too nice of a guy to tell you how he really feels about your comments. Lol. Our menu will double in size as we grow into our new kitchen. The menu is/was not our service issue. The issue was bottlenecks. Trust me. I'm in a much better position to know what the problem has been for the past few years than you. I lived it and suffered through it, knowing that the only solution was to build a bigger kitchen. And now it is over. And we are lightning fast. Do you understand that the kitchen was 1/6 the size that it should have been? Not enough fry space, flat space, grill space, oven space, hood space to produce the food. I promise you.
We buy less than 10% of our products from Sysco, but they are a much better company than they were prior to their merger. We buy far more from Blue Buddah and other purveyors.
Some people come for the beer, as you mention. But most do not. They are here to eat. And while they are eating, they drink the beer. Whether it was the 15 beers we had on tap for the last year or the 204 we will soon have on tap. People are fascinated by us because we have a fairly interesting story and a fairly interesting product. People are polarized by us. Some people love us, others hate us. Those that love us, will love us more. Some that hate us, might learn to love us. Some that hate us, may resent us even more. Because that's the way some people are. I personally, am motivated by the hate. It energizes me.
Nobody is really claiming that we are on some sort of culinary map. They most likely think we are on a culinary value map, that you get a great meal, relative to the price you pay. Some may be surprised though by the new items that we will be adding and the improvements we make to our regular menu items. Some prices will creep up due to higher food prices or due to improvements to food quality, but we want to be affordable to everyone and offer generous portions and use industry standard food cost percentages.
I won't say that we are doing something revolutionary or groundbreaking, but admittedly, we are doing something different, something kinda special to a lot of people. Is it possible that an already successful restaurant can drastically improve 8 and a half years into existence? Is it possible that I'm actually competent and right about what my customers may actually want and how to give it to them? Is it possible that you are wrong with all of your predictions and you may actually let me buy you dinner on a very busy night and have a decent conversation with you? I promise not to serve you any crow.
Quote from: Kickbackssteve on August 28, 2014, 01:15:39 AM
Apache, the owner is too nice of a guy to tell you how he really feels about your comments. Lol. Our menu will double in size as we grow into our new kitchen. The menu is/was not our service issue. The issue was bottlenecks. Trust me. I'm in a much better position to know what the problem has been for the past few years than you. I lived it and suffered through it, knowing that the only solution was to build a bigger kitchen. And now it is over. And we are lightning fast. Do you understand that the kitchen was 1/6 the size that it should have been? Not enough fry space, flat space, grill space, oven space, hood space to produce the food. I promise you.
We buy less than 10% of our products from Sysco, but they are a much better company than they were prior to their merger. We buy far more from Blue Buddah and other purveyors.
Some people come for the beer, as you mention. But most do not. They are here to eat. And while they are eating, they drink the beer. Whether it was the 15 beers we had on tap for the last year or the 204 we will soon have on tap. People are fascinated by us because we have a fairly interesting story and a fairly interesting product. People are polarized by us. Some people love us, others hate us. Those that love us, will love us more. Some that hate us, might learn to love us. Some that hate us, may resent us even more. Because that's the way some people are. I personally, am motivated by the hate. It energizes me.
Nobody is really claiming that we are on some sort of culinary map. They most likely think we are on a culinary value map, that you get a great meal, relative to the price you pay. Some may be surprised though by the new items that we will be adding and the improvements we make to our regular menu items. Some prices will creep up due to higher food prices or due to improvements to food quality, but we want to be affordable to everyone and offer generous portions and use industry standard food cost percentages.
I won't say that we are doing something revolutionary or groundbreaking, but admittedly, we are doing something different, something kinda special to a lot of people. Is it possible that an already successful restaurant can drastically improve 8 and a half years into existence? Is it possible that I'm actually competent and right about what my customers may actually want and how to give it to them? Is it possible that you are wrong with all of your predictions and you may actually let me buy you dinner on a very busy night and have a decent conversation with you? I promise not to serve you any crow.
*insert shit talking here*
You can buy me dinner too, Steve. :)
Quote4. Building something special takes time.
Steve, right it does. And it takes good people. I know many of the staff at Kickback's from years of patronage and you are an innovator, and a guy who comes out with the wow-factor and makes it work. A few years ago you shocked us all at staying open til 3 or 4 then getting people in at 7 to start all over again. When the pool table took away from more seats, you had it removed and returned to serving more table-tops in the area.
The expansion is amazing and will be fantastic when it all comes together, but again "Building something special takes time" and I think its worth waiting for there at KB. I love the fact that you guys brought Pat in from Pele's. He is a great strong guy on the floor to help lead others. You need more good people and I know you will find them. Liz and I are proud of what you have built after the previous issues you had with others. - Jack
Quote from: Apache on August 27, 2014, 11:05:22 PM
Honestly, I can not understand the fascination with this place. Especially from people with culinary backgrounds. Other than the fact that many seem to really like the owner. I'll give him credit for that, sincerely. There must be something to that.
Never met the owner myself. But I have lived in Jax most of my life, traveled extensively too, and this is a pretty unique place as far as Jax goes. As far as the "people with culinary backgrounds" goes, if you're looking for linen tablecloths, bowtied waiters, and molecular gastronomy, no, Kickbacks is not the place to go. But if you want the best Monte Cristo I've ever had and the most eclectic crowd in town, Kickbacks is it.
^not to mention the beer selection is vast!
Steve showed me around the new space a few days ago. Totally unique and amazing! It's a big space!
Will be a truly special addition to the Park and King party-sphere.
Millenial!(s) Plural$$
For those that might never manage to actually own property,such venue ideal,satisfying outlet for 'discretionary' income.
Yeah we went the other day. They bring stuff out randomly as it's made. It was pretty weird and we didn't really enjoy it. Everyone I've talked to wasn't really a fan either. I'm assuming they are doing it to try to get food out as fast as possible since they had the totally opposite reputation before. I'll continue to go there for drinks. The food was kind of meh too.
Went barhopping last Thursday and stopped by the new area at Kickbacks. Had a couple of beers there and talked with the bartender about the long-awaited Belgian beer garden planned for the basement which he advised is still in the works. He said they are nearing completion and that it should be open soon, perhaps within a couple of weeks.
Quote from: acme54321 on June 15, 2015, 07:08:21 PM
Yeah we went the other day. They bring stuff out randomly as it's made. It was pretty weird and we didn't really enjoy it. Everyone I've talked to wasn't really a fan either. I'm assuming they are doing it to try to get food out as fast as possible since they had the totally opposite reputation before. I'll continue to go there for drinks. The food was kind of meh too.
I ate there the other week. Food was fine, as always, but I'm not a big fan of dishes coming out randomly either. I hope that changes in the future.
Quote from: Chaz1969 on June 15, 2015, 07:19:54 PM
Went barhopping last Thursday and stopped by the new area at Kickbacks. Had a couple of beers there and talked with the bartender about the long-awaited Belgian beer garden planned for the basement which he advised is still in the works. He said they are nearing completion and that it should be open soon, perhaps within a couple of weeks.
A beer garden in a basement?
Thanks, Adam White, I was wondering the same thing. Wouldn't that be more of a "rathskeller"?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rathskeller
Quote from: Charles Hunter on June 16, 2015, 06:51:24 AM
Thanks, Adam White, I was wondering the same thing. Wouldn't that be more of a "rathskeller"?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/rathskeller
That makes sense. I was wondering if it was just another "steampunk" thing that I didn't get.
Quote from: thelakelander on June 15, 2015, 08:27:58 PM
Quote from: acme54321 on June 15, 2015, 07:08:21 PM
Yeah we went the other day. They bring stuff out randomly as it's made. It was pretty weird and we didn't really enjoy it. Everyone I've talked to wasn't really a fan either. I'm assuming they are doing it to try to get food out as fast as possible since they had the totally opposite reputation before. I'll continue to go there for drinks. The food was kind of meh too.
I ate there the other week. Food was fine, as always, but I'm not a big fan of dishes coming out randomly either. I hope that changes in the future.
Me also... ordered fish and chips at the bar... runner came out with a plate of chips looking for whoever ordered it. Nobody claimed them... they were mine I found out later... when my fish came out... with no chips. They brought me the cold plate of chips... which I sent back. They really need to fix this...