From quick perusal here are vetoes related to North Florida/Jax
10 Million for St. Johns River Restoration
1.9 Million for UNF
1.7 for FSCJ
That looks like about it that was just NE Fla specific.
As expected Higher Ed and the Environment took big hits. Of the total $615 million, $305 million was cutting Land Conservation Funds.
Full list at the link
http://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/budget/sb_2000_vetolist.pdf
When you can't afford paper clips, you don't buy paper clips.
We were spoiled by unrealistic economic growth and propserity. It gave us unrealistic expectations going forward.
This is the new normal.
We can't spend like we used to, nor should we expect to be able to.
I agree with you Big Guy, but those are some HUGE cuts in important areas. I could see if it was some BS, but the environtment and higher education are important. VERY important. But hey, I guess we have no choice to deal with it until his term in up.
Everyone knows that stuff needed to be cut...Lets focus on what was cut.
At least he is putting on a good track for not overspending. First thing I have agreed with since he's been in office.
Honestly, if you've only found a little under 14 million in cuts in 615 million ... then we should all be celebrating today.
Looks like all the trips Governor Scott made to our area paid off.
have him cut his own salary , like our Mayor-elect did.
Those are specific line items to NE Fla. And I missed one AGAPE Community Health Center Duval County-500k
There are hundreds of millions in statewide cuts that will be felt in NE Fla. 5 million for Public Radio and TV. 12 million for homeless veterans, 1.4 for senior citizens, 1.7 Boys and Girls Clubs, 2.5 for Regional Planning Councils, 305 Million for Land Conservation, 3 million to youth in disadvantaged neighborhoods, 3.25 wounded warrior project, numerous others not specific to the local level.
Also, this is not stuff he cut out of the budget. These are items these entities were trying to pass and he vetoed. Given the economic climate, it is highly likely that all of these entities reduced their requests in knowing that times were tight.
I.E Boys and Girls Club usually requests $25 million, but reduced their request to $20 million and Scott cut an additional 1.7 million.
^That was hypothetical, but should give you an idea of the process.
Here are vetoes to higher education:
School......... Initial................ Vetoed.............. Remaining........ % Vetoed
FAMU.......... $2,514,769 .......... $2,514,769 .......... $0 .................... 100%
FAU............. $3,251,463 .......... $3,251,463 .......... $0 .................... 100%
FGCU........ $11,029,524........... $9,500,000 .......... $1,529,524 .......... 86%
FIU............. $7,827,644........... $6,000,000 .......... $1,676,584 .......... 77%
FSU............. $7,676,584........... $6,000,000 .......... $1,676,584 .......... 78%
NCF............ $6,335,336........... $4,650,000........... $1,685,336 .......... 73%
UCF........... $21,346,431.......... $19,068,627.......... $2,277,804.......... 89%
UF ............ $11,297,085.......... $11,297,085 .......... $0 ................... 100%
UNF ............ $1,972,294 .......... $1,972,294 .......... $0 .................... 100%
USF .......... $48,884,206 ..........$11,336,294 .......... $37,547,912.......... 23%
UWF............ $1,771,079 .......... $0......................... $1,771,079 ........... 0%
These aren't for normal operating budgets (which also got slashed), but for specific projects. UF got zero approved and FSU got 1.6 million. Meanwhile USF got $37 million for a new campus in Lakeland.
Regionalism is one of the main reasons Florida is a mediocre state despite all of our advantages.
QuoteHonestly, if you've only found a little under 14 million in cuts in 615 million ... then we should all be celebrating today
Should we also be celebrating his eliminating tons of jobs at the state level? Or maybe we should celebrate his elimination of funding for envrionmental programs like Florida Forever. Or perhaps we should celebrate his gutting of the growth managment act. I mean, who really need sound planning anyways.
Man, what a lot to celebrate. Let's have a party. I'll buy the first round.
Quote from: CityLife on May 26, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
Here are vetoes to higher education:
School......... Initial................ Vetoed.............. Remaining........ % Vetoed
FAMU.......... $2,514,769 .......... $2,514,769 .......... $0 .................... 100%
FAU............. $3,251,463 .......... $3,251,463 .......... $0 .................... 100%
FGCU........ $11,029,524........... $9,500,000 .......... $1,529,524 .......... 86%
FIU............. $7,827,644........... $6,000,000 .......... $1,676,584 .......... 77%
FSU............. $7,676,584........... $6,000,000 .......... $1,676,584 .......... 78%
NCF............ $6,335,336........... $4,650,000........... $1,685,336 .......... 73%
UCF........... $21,346,431.......... $19,068,627.......... $2,277,804.......... 89%
UF ............ $11,297,085.......... $11,297,085 .......... $0 ................... 100%
UNF ............ $1,972,294 .......... $1,972,294 .......... $0 .................... 100%
USF .......... $48,884,206 ..........$11,336,294 .......... $37,547,912.......... 23%
UWF............ $1,771,079 .......... $0......................... $1,771,079 ........... 0%
These aren't for normal operating budgets (which also got slashed), but for specific projects. UF got zero approved and FSU got 1.6 million. Meanwhile USF got $37 million for a new campus in Lakeland.
Regionalism is one of the main reasons Florida is a mediocre state despite all of our advantages.
A lot of this stuff is pretty much low hanging fruit. Most the stuff on the list for higher education is building improvements and stuff like that. Yes, while important, those areas can probably wait a bit longer. Maybe build stuff a few years later unless the need is absolutely urgent. There are some in the program fields that may be questionable but at least for the higher education stuff, it doesn't look that damaging.
They also raided the transportation fund. A couple of projects like the I-95 Overland Bridge project may not happen.
The Legislature raided the transportation trust fund to the tune of $150 million....all to plug a bigger hole in education....had the Governor vetoed the trust fund raid, education would be even worse off than it already is.
meanwhile, USF gets $38 million to start a whole new campus off I-4...right where a high speed rail station COULD have been.
Bottom line....this guy is a diaster!
Its not low hanging fruit for the major research schools. The $6 million for FSU's Applied Sciences building was going to support major research projects related to the Mag Lab. $6 million of UF's was to go to a Lake Nona Research facility. There are some biomedical research companies there already and it will hurt UF's efforts to work with them. Both projects would be related to major research projects with potential for bigtime economic development.
Our inability to adequately fund our flagship universities is going to hurt the state in the long run. We will eventually have 10 very mediocre state universities and we'll have an even harder time from preventing the brain drain.
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 26, 2011, 04:00:45 PM
The Legislature raided the transportation trust fund to teh tune of $150 million....all to plug a bigger hole in education....had the Governor vetoed the trust fund raid, education would be even worse off than it already is.
meanwhile, USF gets $38 million to start a whole new campus off I-4...right where a high speed rail station COULD have been.
Bottom line....this guy is a diaster!
Geez. I didn't know he raided the transportation fund. Not surprising at all.
What is even funnier is that USF's new campus was going to be tech focused, likely to capitalize on the high tech corridor created by high speed rail...but oh wait...now we just have a $38 million campus managed by the state's 3rd best public school (about to be 4th). Nice
Line item veto power is a dangerous thing. The fact the president doesn't have it forces him to compromise and leads to a more balanced (although sometimes less productive) legislative session. It is one of those things that sounds like a great idea until you see it operate!
Best
Good grief, Rick Scott just GRAPED us all!
-Josh
Quote from: wsansewjs on May 26, 2011, 04:52:28 PM
Good grief, Rick Scott just GRAPED us all!
-Josh
So THAT'S what that was... There for a moment I thought I had a bad case of chiggers!
The man is a thief and a felon and because he can buy his way out, he's now the governor,
Damn! And y'all thought Colombia was corrupt? HA!
OJ SIMPSON? ROBERT BLAKE? JACKO? RICK SCOTT? Does anyone else see a pattern here? OCKLAWAHA
Quote from: CityLife on May 26, 2011, 03:42:31 PM
Here are vetoes to higher education:
School......... Initial................ Vetoed.............. Remaining........ % Vetoed
FAMU.......... $2,514,769 .......... $2,514,769 .......... $0 .................... 100%
FAU............. $3,251,463 .......... $3,251,463 .......... $0 .................... 100%
FGCU........ $11,029,524........... $9,500,000 .......... $1,529,524 .......... 86%
FIU............. $7,827,644........... $6,000,000 .......... $1,676,584 .......... 77%
FSU............. $7,676,584........... $6,000,000 .......... $1,676,584 .......... 78%
NCF............ $6,335,336........... $4,650,000........... $1,685,336 .......... 73%
UCF........... $21,346,431.......... $19,068,627.......... $2,277,804.......... 89%
UF ............ $11,297,085.......... $11,297,085 .......... $0 ................... 100%
UNF ............ $1,972,294 .......... $1,972,294 .......... $0 .................... 100%
USF .......... $48,884,206 ..........$11,336,294 .......... $37,547,912.......... 23%
UWF............ $1,771,079 .......... $0......................... $1,771,079 ........... 0%
These aren't for normal operating budgets (which also got slashed), but for specific projects. UF got zero approved and FSU got 1.6 million. Meanwhile USF got $37 million for a new campus in Lakeland.
Regionalism is one of the main reasons Florida is a mediocre state despite all of our advantages.
2442 G...............................Economic Aid - Florida Panhandle................................6,000,000
Yeah, regionalism, now the section of the state with an official secession movement has an excuse!
If Ricky really wanted to help Florida he could have cut the hell out of the budget and not touched such major programs and funding as schools, and economic aid, by using a microscope technique. But the boy might have gotten callouses on his pinkie. OCKLAWAHA
Someday we'll all learn that elections have consequences. A consequence of electing a tea party governor is tea party governance. Who needs education, police support, public investment, or social services?
We do. But we can hang that up until 2015 in Florida.
The Gov. also vetoed $2.5 million in fuding for Florida's 11 regional planning councils...and for TBARTA...nice!
http://www.tbarta.com/content/tbarta-responds-governor-scott’s-decision-veto-state-funds
The higher ed vetoes are going to be bad news for UNF, and it's a shame, as it's about the most fiscally responsible university in the system. Their reward for good management is to have every penny of their (fairly small) requested funds cut. Talk about "punishing success".
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 03:13:39 PM
have him cut his own salary , like our Mayor-elect did.
How about we cut the slimes total salary and get him the hell out of here. What a fn piece of shit. Get rid of reverse robin hood
But I thought we so much extra money we could cut corporate taxes. This is BS and the shame those who voted for him and those who couldn't even be bothered to show up and vote should be painful. Months of vowing not to cut education. Florida's financial crisis for our state government is so over blown and being taken advantage of to dismantle social and environmental services. Florida has a diverse economy that is suffering a very temporary set back.
Really those of you who fan the flames of reducing taxes in this low tax state and cutting education spending in this underfunded state (49th per student) are being immoral.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 08:04:38 PM
But I thought we so much extra money we could cut corporate taxes. This is BS and the shame those who voted for him and those who couldn't even be bothered to show up and vote should be painful. Months of vowing not to cut education. Florida's financial crisis for our state government is so over blown and being taken advantage of to dismantle social and environmental services. Florida has a diverse economy that is suffering a very temporary set back.
Really those of you who fan the flames of reducing taxes in this low tax state and cutting education spending in this underfunded state (49th per student) are being immoral.
yes yes
My favorite thing about Rick Scott is how he pushed for a bill to drug test welfare recipients, thereby increasing the likelihood his "wife's" business would profit, then turned around and said that his "wife's" business would sell to prevent any conflicts of interest. What a pain to drive up the value of your company and then sell it. Being a public official is a tough job when t only nets you a few mil. LOL :D
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
Wrong. Hate to dismiss you so out of hand but it is so simple to see what is happening.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 08:42:11 PM
Wrong. Hate to dismiss you so out of hand but it is so simple to see what is happening.
What's happening is that from 1990-2005 we all got fat and rich and stupidly assumed it would just go on forever.
Well, it turns out that wasn't the case after all. So we have to modify our expectations, tighten our belts, and get out of the fiscal mess before we have to sell the state to the Chinese.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
While debt can be bad, the idea that the Gov't running up a debt is totally a bad thing is a common misconception - when in a recession it is important for the government to spend money (seeing as though consumption, capital investment and net exports typically all drop). This leads to the other 3 proponents of GDP (through the expenditures approach) to increase leading to a rise in GDP and the multiplier effect, therefore improving the economy (note, multiplier effect is not the same as trickle down economics). The tricky part comes when the economy improves and it is necessary to increase taxes to help pay off the debts incurred when the economy was on the downside of the economic. No one wants to do it (raise taxes when things are good) so they don't, resulting in a debt that never gets paid off. It is simple cyclical budget economics, but no one likes to mention it.
We have Rick Scott to thank for one thing ... Alvin Brown.
We may get another gift from him next year ... a more balanced state legislature.
It is never a good thing for one party to have so much control - and particularly when it is the far end of that party. I know that I will be voting for every 'D' I can next year, if for no other reason than to balance the game. Hopefully other historically 'R' voters will do the same.
I was going to comment on this, but the FTU already has: the majority of non-cut university money is going to the district of the Florida Senate budget chief, JD Alexander. USF is still getting 77 percent of what it requested, (and around 61% of all the university money), to be spent on the new Lakeland polytechnic campus, which is officially part of USF.
UNF was requesting less than $2 million, around 1.5% of the total amount requested, and will get nothing.
http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/403455/matt-dixon/2011-05-26/senate-budget-chiefs-district-gets-61-percent-all
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
Per BigGuy219:
"Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it."
[/quote]
I wouldn't say education is not "essential." But hey, I am just along for the ride.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
No we have so much money we can cut revenue. Right BigGuy
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
You're assuming the cuts being made are smart cuts. But $35 million is still going to a pet project in Lakeland, while we're getting no university construction money.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
You're assuming the cuts being made are smart cuts. But $35 million is still going to a pet project in Lakeland, while we're getting no university construction money.
Of course $35 million is going to the pet project in Lakeland. That's pork a key guy delivered to his people.
That's politics. That's the game.
It's not 'fair.' It never has been. It never will be.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
Hilarious. Remember people there are lots of People like Big Guy in this state do not send your kids to public school. My 5 year old lord willing won't ever be in one unless this state really changes priorities Grandparents I'm typing at you.
How many times did Rick Scott specifically promise not to cut education spending?
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
You're assuming the cuts being made are smart cuts. But $35 million is still going to a pet project in Lakeland, while we're getting no university construction money.
Of course $35 million is going to the pet project in Lakeland. That's pork a key guy delivered to his people.
That's politics. That's the game.
It's not 'fair.' It never has been. It never will be.
That's a pretty poor reason to just willingly buy into cuts that are against the interests of us and our local institution. UNF has demonstrated that it is responsible with the money it receives.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
You're assuming the cuts being made are smart cuts. But $35 million is still going to a pet project in Lakeland, while we're getting no university construction money.
Of course $35 million is going to the pet project in Lakeland. That's pork a key guy delivered to his people.
That's politics. That's the game.
It's not 'fair.' It never has been. It never will be.
That's a pretty poor reason to just willingly buy into cuts that are against the interests of us and our local institution. UNF has demonstrated that it is responsible with the money it receives.
If the only thing in life you have to be pissed off about is UNF losing a proposed $1.9 million (out of $615 million in cuts) then there's no hope for you.
I can see the Brainstorming session in Rick Scott's office now.
Toady: Governor Scott the citizens of the State are hurting economically.
Gov: OK then let's cut revenue so we can slash spending on the things that help those citizens.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:24:32 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 09:20:53 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:10:12 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 09:07:03 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:01:05 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 08:54:52 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 08:35:30 PM
We can't spend money we don't have.
It's terrible to have to cut things, but the bottom line is that we can't afford it right now.
We have to get this spending under control, so that we don't end up buried in a mound of debt.
You pretend like there aren't two sides to a balance sheet. We don't have to cut essential services and public investments. Florida has among the lowest tax rates in the country. Which is doing nothing for us except for driving jobs and opportunity to other places and making our kids dumber.
We need to cut waste - absolutely - but we can also raise revenue.
Nothing 'essential' is being cut. If it were 'essential' the state would collapse when the measures were cut. They're things that would be nice to have in boom times, and there's some that people are passionate about.
Governor Scott is doing exactly what he promised and is getting Florida going in the right direction. It may hurt today, but down the road we'll be better for it.
You're assuming the cuts being made are smart cuts. But $35 million is still going to a pet project in Lakeland, while we're getting no university construction money.
Of course $35 million is going to the pet project in Lakeland. That's pork a key guy delivered to his people.
That's politics. That's the game.
It's not 'fair.' It never has been. It never will be.
That's a pretty poor reason to just willingly buy into cuts that are against the interests of us and our local institution. UNF has demonstrated that it is responsible with the money it receives.
If the only thing in life you have to be pissed off about is UNF losing a proposed $1.9 million (out of $615 million in cuts) then there's no hope for you.
It's hardly the only thing distressing about these cuts. That hardly makes it a smart move, though.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:26:52 PM
I can see the Brainstorming session in Rick Scott's office now.
Toady: Governor Scott the citizens of the State are hurting economically.
Gov: OK then let's cut revenue so we can slash spending on the things that help those citizens.
What happened to the days when people helped themselves?
When did it become the government's job to help people?
It's that kind of thinking that built up this debt and caused these problems.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:26:52 PM
I can see the Brainstorming session in Rick Scott's office now.
Toady: Governor Scott the citizens of the State are hurting economically.
Gov: OK then let's cut revenue so we can slash spending on the things that help those citizens.
What happened to the days when people helped themselves?
When did it become the government's job to help people?
It's that kind of thinking that built up this debt and caused these problems.
The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government. :Thomas Jefferson ,Primary Author of the Constitution.
In that case we have got some tragically bad government in Florida.
Rick Scott will be a one-term-blunder. Hopefully people wake up for these state legislative races next year.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:38:19 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:26:52 PM
I can see the Brainstorming session in Rick Scott's office now.
Toady: Governor Scott the citizens of the State are hurting economically.
Gov: OK then let's cut revenue so we can slash spending on the things that help those citizens.
What happened to the days when people helped themselves?
When did it become the government's job to help people?
It's that kind of thinking that built up this debt and caused these problems.
The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government. :Thomas Jefferson ,Primary Author of the Constitution.
Thomas Jefferson was in Paris when the constitution was written.
And Jefferson was an agrarian, who believed in a weak federal government, no banks, and wanted states to run themselves. An original tea party guy.
Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.
UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.
UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.
You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.
Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.
You mean when the consolidation of writings was edited into a single document. Our Jeffersonian Democracy was framed by him.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:36:07 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:26:52 PM
I can see the Brainstorming session in Rick Scott's office now.
Toady: Governor Scott the citizens of the State are hurting economically.
Gov: OK then let's cut revenue so we can slash spending on the things that help those citizens.
What happened to the days when people helped themselves?
When did it become the government's job to help people?
It's that kind of thinking that built up this debt and caused these problems.
Again, While debt can be bad, the idea that the Gov't running up a debt is totally a bad thing is a common misconception - when in a recession it is important for the government to spend money (seeing as though consumption, capital investment and net exports typically all drop). This leads to the other 3 proponents of GDP (through the expenditures approach) to increase leading to a rise in GDP and the multiplier effect, therefore improving the economy (note, multiplier effect is not the same as trickle down economics). The tricky part comes when the economy improves and it is necessary to increase taxes to help pay off the debts incurred when the economy was on the downside of the economic. No one wants to do it (raise taxes when things are good) so they don't, resulting in a debt that never gets paid off. It is simple cyclical budget economics, but no one likes to mention it. As for people helping themselves, I believe our government is of the people, for the people and by the people. The idea that anyone is truly independant and not interdependant in todays world is laughable.
Quote from: YossarianlivesAs for people helping themselves, I believe our government is of the people, for the people and by the people. The idea that anyone is truly independant and not interdependant in todays world is laughable.
This kind of thinking is dangerous. We need to be independent. We can't give the government too much control over us, or ultimately they'll misuse it.
It is always a balancing act they are all independent in Somalia. Just keep the power to vote leaders out don't make them weak leaders.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:59:32 PM
It is always a balancing act they are all independent in Somalia. Just keep the power to vote leaders out don't make them weak leaders.
I don't understand how you and I could have grown up in the same country.
This isn't Sweden, and I don't know why people want it to be Sweden. We spent 50 years fighting the spread of socialism across the globe.
Now 20 years after we won, suddenly everyone wants to be a Socialist? I just don't understand what happened. It's very troubling.
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:13:56 PM
How many times did Rick Scott specifically promise not to cut education spending?
oh but he didn't...as he puts it, the state share stayed the same...they just didn't backfill the Federal stimulus dollars...which of course went in 2 years ago because the state couldn't afford to fund education at 2008 level without it.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:49:21 PM
Quote from: YossarianlivesAs for people helping themselves, I believe our government is of the people, for the people and by the people. The idea that anyone is truly independant and not interdependant in todays world is laughable.
This kind of thinking is dangerous. We need to be independent. We can't give the government too much control over us, or ultimately they'll misuse it.
We are the government.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 10:05:14 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 09:49:21 PM
Quote from: YossarianlivesAs for people helping themselves, I believe our government is of the people, for the people and by the people. The idea that anyone is truly independant and not interdependant in todays world is laughable.
This kind of thinking is dangerous. We need to be independent. We can't give the government too much control over us, or ultimately they'll misuse it.
We are the government.
If 'we' are the government, then why did the government just do something that everyone in this thread but me disaproves of? 'We' are not the government. It's a cute notion. But, the government is the enemy of every freedom loving citizen. We must strip down the beast as much as possible before it kills us, and the easiest way of doing that is to cut funding.
The governor did it. We the people will undo it in course.
the beast? do you mean the Government?
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.
The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.
We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.
We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to not be re-elected.
I think it's bad to be so down on America. I think our best days are ahead of us. We just need better leaders. And we'll get them.
Here is my concern. We seemed to go a bit arbitrary on the cuts. For example, the overland bridge is NOT a capacity project. The overland bridge is nearing end of life. Do we really want I-35 to happen here?
The Federal debt is and situation is dire Big Guy not Florida's. It is a simple truth.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 10:18:44 PM
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to not be re-elected.
I think it's bad to be so down on America. I think our best days are ahead of us. We just need better leaders. And we'll get them.
Slap that on a Happy Meal. It'll cheer people up.
We're post-WW2 England. We overpsent. We overstretched. Now we need to cut, downsize, and move forward.
We've got to make room for China, India, and other emerging economic super powers. We just won't have the same financial dominance we enjoyed for the past 10-20 years.
We had our run. But, it's time to be realistic and acknowledge that the run is over. We owe it to future generations to do the right thing here. It's hard and it stinks.
The country, as a whole, just took a paycut. We have to come up with a new budget, instead of just foolishly assuming that we'll keep getting pay raises.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.
The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.
We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.
We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.
Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations. I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich. What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples. I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves. Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 26, 2011, 10:28:51 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.
The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.
We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.
We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.
Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations. I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich. What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples. I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves. Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.
What would you cut in lieu of what the Governor proposes be cut?
Thanks for ther Pep Talk, Big Guy.
I guess you didn't get Pres Obama's Memo: WIN THE FUTURE
FEAR: The Republicans Best Issue
Well I sure as hell would not be giving tax breaks to citizens and corporations! ...who 1 were stupid enough to put people in office who put us in this place- and I am not talking about Clinton, but 8 years of that Texas dipshit. 2 If we are cutting everything...then why is this governor so insistent on cutting infrastructure/ transportation that does not include the automobile/ education (SPECIFICALLY PRIVATE) education. Personally all of these cuts are what China is using to build it's economy. I am sorry, but I do agree with you about cuts, but these cuts are very biased and I don't we should even be considering tax cuts at the time. How about everybody including the rich payer higher taxes to pay for the bad mistakes we made when voting.
yeah I guess a little respect is in order for a president, but I will day I do not respect the job Bush did and I SURE do not respect the job that Scott is doing. I know what you are saying, but I do not believe we need to step aside for China. This county has lost it's way. We need to begin to care about each other again. I cannot respect any politician that cares so little about anyone below a certain pay grade. You have to admit that Scott is out to destroy the poor. I do not respect this, but that is just me!
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
What would you cut in lieu of what the Governor proposes be cut?
I'd cut the tax breaks. I'd roll those way back.
None of the cuts are going to fly with thoughtful people while the Governor is saying we can throw the revenue from corporate taxes out the window.
The rest of Florida is starting to regain sanity. Rick Scott's latest poll numbers put him in the 20s. (http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1297.xml?ReleaseID=1604)
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 26, 2011, 10:44:02 PM
yeah I guess a little respect is in order for a president, but I will day I do not respect the job Bush did and I SURE do not respect the job that Scott is doing. I know what you are saying, but I do not believe we need to step aside for China. This county has lost it's way. We need to begin to care about each other again. I cannot respect any politician that cares so little about anyone below a certain pay grade. You have to admit that Scott is out to destroy the poor. I do not respect this, but that is just me!
If you borrow money from me, I own you.
China has a lot of our debt. We need to pay it down, before they start reminding us about it next time we try and do something on the global stage.
The debt is real. Whether it's the country, the state, the city, or the individual. When you owe money, bad things happen.
Public debt has never been a problem for the United States. Nothing has changed.
But Florida is different than the US. We can't run a deficit in Florida. All of our budgets must be balanced. And since we're talking about the Florida balanced budget, it's little point to talk about China or India. But go ahead.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 26, 2011, 10:28:51 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.
The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.
We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.
We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.
Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations. I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich. What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples. I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves. Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.
You're only kidding, right?
China is riding a full fledged industrial revolution.... They've walked away from almost every environmental discussion because dirty factories run cheap!
And if by education you mean pulling children from their village and forcing them to perform a menial task along an assembly line... Then yes they're leading the way!
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 10:56:41 PM
Public debt has never been a problem for the United States. Nothing has changed.
But Florida is different than the US. We can't run a deficit in Florida. All of our budgets must be balanced. And since we're talking about the Florida balanced budget, it's little point to talk about China or India. But go ahead.
Jimmy, I only mention it because there has been some talk of a 'bail out' for states. Essentially the Federal government would take over the state debt.
We did this following the Revolutionary War. Crippled the states, allowed the Federal government to take on debt and establish credit.
I think it would be a disaster if the federal government bailed out states. If the states get out of debt, then that threat no longer rooms.
That's why I reference the national debt.
But you say that in a way that makes it sound like Florida has debt. We don't. Every year we pass a balanced budget. Sometimes we have to make cuts. Sometimes we have to raise revenues. I think we need to do a little of both. But this governor has chosen a course of cutting spending and cutting revenue. That's what I have an issue with. And I'm not alone.
Quote from: Shwaz on May 26, 2011, 10:57:09 PM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 26, 2011, 10:28:51 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.
The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.
We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.
We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.
Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations. I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich. What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples. I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves. Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.
You're only kidding, right?
China is riding a full fledged industrial revolution.... They've walked away from almost every environmental discussion because dirty factories run cheap!
And if by education you mean pulling children from their village and forcing them to perform a menial task along an assembly line... Then yes they're leading the way!
For the love of all that's holy.. It's about time someone pointed this out. List of countries by 2007 emissions
Rank Country Annual CO2 emissions[8][9]
(in thousands of metric tonnes) Percentage of global total
World 29,321,302 100%
1 China[10] 6,534,367.00(2011) 22.30%
2 United States 5,833,381.00(2011) 19.91%
- European Union (27) 4,177,817.86[11] 14.04%
3 Russia 1,729,357.00(2011) 5.50%
4 India 1,495,362.00(2011) 5.24%
5 Japan 1,214,543.00(2011) 4.28%
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 11:07:10 PM
But you say that in a way that makes it sound like Florida has debt. We don't. Every year we pass a balanced budget. Sometimes we have to make cuts. Sometimes we have to raise revenues. I think we need to do a little of both. But this governor has chosen a course of cutting spending and cutting revenue. That's what I have an issue with. And I'm not alone.
In fairness though, I don't think any budget in the Rick Scott era would meet with your approval.
Well, I have an open mind. Maybe in the next year or two he'll have the notion that he wants to be re-elected. Those budgets might be more palatable.
We simply need to raise the revenue and balance the budget. It's not so hard. "Let's get to work."
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
What would you cut in lieu of what the Governor proposes be cut?
I'd cut the tax breaks. I'd roll those way back.
Why cut tax breaks to fund services?
It punishes success, and rewards failure.
The goal is to put as much money in people's pockets and allow them to purchase the services they want. It sounds like you (and most liberals) want to take everyone's money and choose the services they get.
This is why Rick Scott got elected in the first place. People would rather have their tax cuts and lose services, than pay higher taxes and get services.
It might not be 'right,' but psychologically people want the money in their banks. Even if they could get 'more' for 'less' by letting it be put into a government tax pool for services.
Quote from: CityLife on May 26, 2011, 09:43:21 PM
Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.
UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.
UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.
You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.
Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.
I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.
The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.
That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 11:26:38 PM
Quote from: Jimmy on May 26, 2011, 10:49:27 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:29:55 PM
What would you cut in lieu of what the Governor proposes be cut?
I'd cut the tax breaks. I'd roll those way back.
Why cut tax breaks to fund services?
It punishes success, and rewards failure.
The goal is to put as much money in people's pockets and allow them to purchase the services they want. It sounds like you (and most liberals) want to take everyone's money and choose the services they get.
This is why Rick Scott got elected in the first place. People would rather have their tax cuts and lose services, than pay higher taxes and get services.
It might not be 'right,' but psychologically people want the money in their banks. Even if they could get 'more' for 'less' by letting it be put into a government tax pool for services.
Wanting to go to State schools is failure? Wanting a clean st. Johns river is failure? Wanting to ride a train is failure?
Quote from: A-Finnius on May 26, 2011, 11:08:34 PM
Quote from: Shwaz on May 26, 2011, 10:57:09 PM
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 26, 2011, 10:28:51 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:17:22 PM
Quote from: Timkin on May 26, 2011, 10:14:22 PM
IMO the "beast" is the GoverNOR and his kind
The Governor is doing everything in his power to save this state and make it viable in the new economy.
The boom is over. It's not coming back. It may get worse.
We're competing with China and with India, and we've got huge debt. We're a declining power. The things we had ten years ago, and gotten used to and enjoy, we have to give those back now.
We're in a lot of trouble. Not just here in Florida, but all across the country. We need to tighten our belts. Make the hard cuts. And move forward leaner, and more thrifty into this new age.
Governor Scott is an example to all other Governors on how to get a state fixed.
Sorry, but China is investing in education and green technology- not cutting eduction to give tax breaks to the rich and wealthy corporations. I do understand what it means to balance a budget, but not making cuts that are geared toward doing nothing more than pleasing his party and the rich. What this crook is doing is of his interests, not the peoples. I do agree that we do need to make cuts, but lets be honest with ourselves. Lets not make cuts in one place to give to our friends in another place.
You're only kidding, right?
China is riding a full fledged industrial revolution.... They've walked away from almost every environmental discussion because dirty factories run cheap!
And if by education you mean pulling children from their village and forcing them to perform a menial task along an assembly line... Then yes they're leading the way!
For the love of all that's holy.. It's about time someone pointed this out. List of countries by 2007 emissions
Rank Country Annual CO2 emissions[8][9]
(in thousands of metric tonnes) Percentage of global total
World 29,321,302 100%
1 China[10] 6,534,367.00(2011) 22.30%
2 United States 5,833,381.00(2011) 19.91%
- European Union (27) 4,177,817.86[11] 14.04%
3 Russia 1,729,357.00(2011) 5.50%
4 India 1,495,362.00(2011) 5.24%
5 Japan 1,214,543.00(2011) 4.28%
China population 1,339,724,852
US population 311,430,000
So if you were to look at emissions per capita China's would be WELL less than the US.
Also current investments in Green Technology won't affect emissions levels until several years down the road. China is killing the US in Green Technology and is positioning itself to be the global leader in that area if it already isn't. Please find me one article that says otherwise.
Relax
I'm more of a "the price of freedom is vigilance" guy.
Good debate but I have to go in a bit early tomorrow so good night.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 11:31:15 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 26, 2011, 09:43:21 PM
Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.
UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.
UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.
You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.
Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.
I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.
The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.
That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.
To CityLife, your post made me feel like shit after graduating with a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Graphic Design / Digital Media. UNF has successfully managed to survive without collapsing its own few departments during the economic recession's pressure while other Florida universities are suffering.
To Tacachale, thank you for trying to defend UNF and other "non-higher" standard education universities.
-Josh
UNF lost $1.9 million dollars.
I guess they'll have to cancel enrollment for the Fall 2011 semester, fire all the faculty and staff, and board up all the buildings.
...oh wait. None of that is going to happen. They're fine.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 11:31:15 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 26, 2011, 09:43:21 PM
Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.
UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.
UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.
You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.
Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.
I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.
The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.
That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.
Unless the state will allow UF, FSU, and USF to charge higher tuition, schools like UNF, UWF, FAU, and FGCU should be well behind the upper tier schools in funding. Schools like UF, FSU, USF, and UCF charge nearly the same price as the lesser state schools, yet provide a superior education and have much higher quality students. Therefore, those upper tier schools should receive more state money in order to give those quality students a better ROI. Simple as that.
You talk about Florida losing its best and brightest if it weren't for the smaller state schools...This will be hard to express without sounding like an elitist or condescending, but its reality so oh well...UNF, FGCU, UWF, etc aren't keeping many of Florida's students from going to Emory, Georgia Tech, UNC, Duke, Northeastern schools, etc. UF and to a lesser extent FSU do. I know quite a few people who went to UF over quasi-elite schools. Same with FSU. The state needs to invest significantly more to its upper tier schools in order to keep Florida's best students home and because those schools are massive economic development engines.
I like UNF. I have quite a few friends who went there, but there is absolutely no way any UNF supporter (or employee) should be upset about not getting state money when UF doesn't either. Not advocating for the state to neglect UNF, just that it needs to fund its upper tier schools much better than the regional ones.
Quote from: wsansewjs on May 26, 2011, 11:44:39 PM
Quote from: Tacachale on May 26, 2011, 11:31:15 PM
Quote from: CityLife on May 26, 2011, 09:43:21 PM
Tacachale, if anyone should be mad about the Higher Ed vetoes it is UF and FSU (especially UF who got $0). I really hate to offend any UNF graduates here, but UF and FSU are on a totally different level than UNF. Heck even UCF and USF are on a totally different level.
UF is the #53 rated University in the country by US News (I know their ratings don't use the best methodology) and FSU is #104. Both are in the top 50 best public schools in the country according to the US News rankings.
UNF isn't even in the top 50 schools that don't have doctoral programs schools in the south. That doesn't count schools like UF, FSU, UGA, UNC, and the hundreds of other research schools. So basically UNF isn't even in the top 250 universities in the south.
You complaining about UNF furthers my argument about regionalism. With Florida's population and wealth, both UF and FSU should be top 50 Universities nationally. Yet those schools don't get near the funding that they should because politicians funnel higher ed money to lesser schools in their districts (see USF Poly). UF and FSU are really the only state schools that can keep Florida's brightest students at home, yet we as a state don't invest nearly enough money to enable that to happen. I know I would have gone out of state if my parents weren't FSU alumni and I had been raised a die hard Seminole. However, not everyone is like that and we lose a lot of bright students and future leaders out of state.
Again no offense to any UNF graduates. I know many UNF graduates who are very sharp and are doing quite well, but UNF has no right whatsoever to complain about lack of funding when much better schools are in the same boat.
I don't think we disagree on the fundamental part of this problem. But the real matter is that this affects the integrity of the univeristy system as a whole. It's nice to think about UF and FSU in a vacuum, the "flagships" of the state, but UNF and the other regional schools (USF, UCF, FIU, FAU, UWF, and FGCU) were created for a purpose: there was a deficiency in our university system, which simply couldn't accomodate the volume of students the state produces. Unless they accepted literally hundreds of thousands of students, UF and FSU (and FAMU) can't provide for Florida's higher ed needs by themselves. If it weren't for the newer schools, Florida would lose a LOT more of its best and brightest, regardless of how awesome the flagships were.
The money Scott cut was, unless I'm mistaken, intended specifically for building and infrastructure. Young schools with growing infrastucture needs obviously require money to fund it (and larger schools require more proportionally, of course.) UF and FSU have other needs (and in the case of FSU right now, they have a lot of other needs), but this isn't one of them. In this economy, you'd also expect schools to get their house in order and put out realistic requests. UNF is a young school, and is also well run - it's about the only school in the system that managed its finances well enough to not have to cut programs and lay off employees. And it's not like they were seriously requesting an amount that would hurt the "better" school; it was by any measure modest - seriously, 1.5% of the total. Regardless, that got cut entirely, while certain other projects based in politically powerful senate districts were more protected.
That's the problem right there. An young, up and coming school faced a 100% decrease in its infrastructure request basically for doing what it's supposed to be doing. Decisions like this affect the entire university system, and therefore, the quality of life in the state.
To CityLife, your post made me feel like shit after graduating with a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Graphic Design / Digital Media. UNF has successfully managed to survive without collapsing its own few departments during the economic recession's pressure while other Florida universities are suffering.
To Tacachale, thank you for trying to defend UNF and other "non-higher" standard education universities.
-Josh
Like I said, I know plenty of UNF graduates who are doing well and successful. Don't be so sensitive.
Do you really think UNF should be funded as well as UF or FSU?
Florida's upper tier universities are structured completely differently than an undergrad oriented school like UNF. UF, FSU, USF, and UCF have many elite professors who are paid much higher than UNF's best and who are highly sought after around the country. A few of these professors have been cherry picked by schools whose states allocate more to Higher Ed. Heck my department at FSU lost very good professors to UCLA and Georga Tech in my time there. Other than that those schools are doing just fine, minus the budget cuts that every school is dealing with.
wsansewjs, as a digital media graduate you may be able to appreciate this project that FSU is partnering with James Cameron's company (Digital Domain) on in Downtown West Palm Beach. This is the type of Economic Development that UNF is simply not capable of.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/fsu-studio-expand-plans-for-digital-animation-college-1408390.html
Also, I'm like 80% sure BigGuy is Ron Swanson
I'm about 99% sure it must be Jerry Moran, but I guess everybody has their own Big Guy conspiracy theory.
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 02:53:08 PM
When you can't afford paper clips, you don't buy paper clips.
We were spoiled by unrealistic economic growth and propserity. It gave us unrealistic expectations going forward.
This is the new normal.
We can't spend like we used to, nor should we expect to be able to.
Unrealistic economic growth and prosperity based upon the republican ideas rules and regulations..so we can blame all our bullshit on them right? I mean it was your god the wonderful intelligent george bush that was leading us all was'nt it?..good...then we can blame them...that's nice to hear someone should stand up and take the blame...
Big Guy I do agree with you. Either you increase revenue or cut spending. All Scott is doing is making Party Favored cuts and not even strategic at that. I guess if we flipped the issue over to the private sector- is he coming down as hard? Not at all. Lets be fair!
On the UNF note- every institution is reaching to become Highest Tier. UF is a Tier One, but does not mean the professors are superior. I have many friends who teach at Tier One schools and have half the resume of mine or any of my other colleagues at UNF. UNF is a teaching school, but has been improving at an alarming rate over the last few years. I don't think this conversation will be happening in 10 yrs.
Quote from: jcjohnpaint on May 27, 2011, 08:09:42 AM
Either you increase revenue or cut spending
actually given our local, state, and Federal budget issues you do both!
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 11:34:32 PM
I live two blocks from the St. John's River. I can see it out my window. I don't see any toxic waste floating by. Again. Relax.
just wait a few weeks/months...that nice green sheen will be back
Quote from: tufsu1 on May 26, 2011, 07:10:35 PM
The Gov. also vetoed $2.5 million in fuding for Florida's 11 regional planning councils...and for TBARTA...nice!
http://www.tbarta.com/content/tbarta-responds-governor-scott’s-decision-veto-state-funds
Yep, thanks to the "jobs governor" (gag!), it's very likely that I will be out of one!
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
wsansewjs, as a digital media graduate you may be able to appreciate this project that FSU is partnering with James Cameron's company (Digital Domain) on in Downtown West Palm Beach. This is the type of Economic Development that UNF is simply not capable of.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/fsu-studio-expand-plans-for-digital-animation-college-1408390.html
You do realize that's a irrelevant comparison. I personally discussed this the other day with an administrator at UNF. If a private developer came up to UNF with $81 million in
state and
local money and wanted them to simply administer a dual enrollment program(they and JU both offer dual enrollment programs now)... it would happen.
-Signed
An FSU graduate.
QUOTE FROM BIG GUY "Why cut tax breaks to fund services?
It punishes success, and rewards failure.
The goal is to put as much money in people's pockets and allow them to purchase the services they want. It sounds like you (and most liberals) want to take everyone's money and choose the services they get.
This is why Rick Scott got elected in the first place. People would rather have their tax cuts and lose services, than pay higher taxes and get services."
Big Guy, I don't agree with your opinions at all, but the reason Rick Scott won was money. HE SPENT ABOUT $75 MILLION OF HIS OWN MONEY TO DEFEAT MCCOLLUM AND SINK. HAD SINK SPENT AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF MONEY ON THIS ELECTION SHE WOULD BE GOVERNOR TODAY.
$75 million divided by 2.5 million votes = $30 per vote
Quote from: CityLife
Also, I'm like 80% sure BigGuy is Ron Swanson
Quote from: ChriswUfGatorI'm about 99% sure it must be Jerry Moran, but I guess everybody has their own Big Guy conspiracy theory.
No. I'm not either of those people.
Quote from: stephendare on May 27, 2011, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 27, 2011, 09:50:39 AM
Quote from: CityLife
Also, I'm like 80% sure BigGuy is Ron Swanson
Quote from: ChriswUfGatorI'm about 99% sure it must be Jerry Moran, but I guess everybody has their own Big Guy conspiracy theory.
No. I'm not either of those people.
cool. what kind of shrimp special was it that Jerry happened to tell you he was thinking about for La Cena this weekend, again?
I don't recall. He told me, but I was more focused on walking passed all the local businesses to get to Subway for a $5 footlong. ;D
wait...you mean there are national chains downtown? Is that the Subway that is now open on Saturday and until 8pm on weeknighs
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 26, 2011, 10:02:46 PM
Quote from: JeffreyS on May 26, 2011, 09:59:32 PM
It is always a balancing act they are all independent in Somalia. Just keep the power to vote leaders out don't make them weak leaders.
I don't understand how you and I could have grown up in the same country.
This isn't Sweden, and I don't know why people want it to be Sweden. We spent 50 years fighting the spread of socialism across the globe.
Now 20 years after we won, suddenly everyone wants to be a Socialist? I just don't understand what happened. It's very troubling.
I still don't understand how folks can be stuck in the cold war era, and even confuse communism (which we successfully fought) with socialism. Can someone explain this to me?
Besides, there is a lot to learn from successful western European nations, namely that providing services to our citizens doesn't have to bankrupt our country, but fighting multiple wars always does!
Surely you can understand that cutting corporate taxes as Rick Scott did was completely unnecessary:
QuoteGuess how few Florida businesses pay corporate taxes?
May 08, 2011|By Scott Maxwell, TAKING NAMES
A fascinating thing happened this year in Florida.
Legislators were trying to help Darden Restaurants get a tax break.
Their problem was this: The Fortune 500 company was paying so little in corporate-income taxes on its headquarters in Orange County that the break was bigger than its tax bill.
And it's hard to find a way to let the company to pay less … than nothing.
This, my friends, is the state of corporate taxation in Florida.
GOP politicians would have you believe that the poor, poor businesses are overtaxed.
But would you like to guess what percentage of Florida businesses pay any income taxes at all?
Around 75 percent? Maybe 50?
Try 2.
Fewer than 2 percent, actually.
Out of 1.3 million for-profit corporations and companies in the state, only 24,112 paid any corporate income taxes at all last year, according to the state Department of Revenue.
More than 98 percent paid none at all.
If your business is paying anything, you're in rare company.
In fact, because so few companies pay, corporate-income taxes account for less than 3 percent of the state's revenues.
Still, Gov. Rick Scott and his peers in the Legislature want to make that lower â€" even as they take money from veterans and public schools.
Florida Republicans zealously pursue corporate-tax cuts, espousing a theory of trickle-down economics â€" trying to convince you that more money for corporations leads to more money for individuals.
Unfortunately, what has failed to trickle down to them is reality.
At 5.5 percent, Florida has had one of the lowest corporate-tax rates in America for years.
Yet we also have some of the highest unemployment rates and foreclosure rates.
We have lower-than-average salaries and fewer Fortune 500 companies than other states our size.
Quite simply, there is proof that low corporate taxes do not necessarily lead to an economic utopia.
But that hasn't stopped politicians from pursuing them.
In fact, nearly 10 years ago, the St. Petersburg Times did an impressive expose on the state's corporate-tax rates and found that some of Florida's biggest and most profitable companies didn't pay a cent.
The cruise giant Carnival Corp. was a good example: $1 billion in profits and not a single penny in corporate taxes for the state.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-05-08/news/os-scott-maxwell-corp-taxes-scam-050820110507_1_corporate-taxes-income-taxes-corporate-tax-rates
And please inform yoursef as to Florida's business tax ranking vs the other 49 states: Florida already ranks fifth for lowest corporate taxes!!
QuoteFlorida's got a better business tax climate than all but four other states. And not one of those four is east of the Mississippi or comes close to being a big population state.
Florida ranks fifth overall in the annual "state business tax climate index" â€" an annual analysis of the relative competitiveness of states based on their business tax structures. In fact, Florida has remained consistent at No. 5 on this index since at least 2006. Many other states vacillate in rank from year to year.
http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/what-does-floridas-favorable-business-tax-rank-tell-us/1131140
@Field
Not irrelevant in the slightest. Do you think Digital Domain (the company who did effects on Tron and Avatar) just magically decided to up and move to Florida? Do you think they would have leveraged public investment without the help of FSU? As an FSU grad you must be aware that our film school is right behind USC, UCLA, and NYU as one of the best in the country. Think those things might have played a role in this
project and Digital Domains decision to invest in Florida?
Like I said, that's the type of economic development UNF is just not capable of.
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
wsansewjs, as a digital media graduate you may be able to appreciate this project that FSU is partnering with James Cameron's company (Digital Domain) on in Downtown West Palm Beach. This is the type of Economic Development that UNF is simply not capable of.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/fsu-studio-expand-plans-for-digital-animation-college-1408390.html
You do realize that's a irrelevant comparison. I personally discussed this the other day with an administrator at UNF. If a private developer came up to UNF with $81 million in state and local money and wanted them to simply administer a dual enrollment program(they and JU both offer dual enrollment programs now)... it would happen.
Not irrelevant in the slightest. Do you think Digital Domain (the company who did effects on Tron and Avatar) just magically decided to up and move to Florida? Do you think they would have leveraged public investment without the help of FSU? As an FSU grad you must be aware that our film school is right behind USC, UCLA, and NYU as one of the
best in the country. Think those things might have played a role in this
project and Digital Domains decision to invest in Florida?
Like I said, that's the type of economic development UNF is just not capable of.
-Signed
An FSU graduate.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
wsansewjs, as a digital media graduate you may be able to appreciate this project that FSU is partnering with James Cameron's company (Digital Domain) on in Downtown West Palm Beach. This is the type of Economic Development that UNF is simply not capable of.
You do realize that's a irrelevant comparison. I personally discussed this the other day with an administrator at UNF. If a private developer came up to UNF with $81 million in state and local money and wanted them to simply administer a dual enrollment program(they and JU both offer dual enrollment programs now)... it would happen.
-Signed
An FSU graduate.
It's also looking at only one program. FSU has a highly regarded college of film studies. UF doesn't have a film school at all, does that mean the school is less capable of economic development? Of course not. It also doesn't follow that the contributions of a school are inconsequential because they don't measure up to FSU. California's higher ed system isn't so great because it has two great universities; it's because it has those plus eight other great universities.
Quote from: Tacachale on May 27, 2011, 10:53:40 AM
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 10:26:03 AM
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
wsansewjs, as a digital media graduate you may be able to appreciate this project that FSU is partnering with James Cameron's company (Digital Domain) on in Downtown West Palm Beach. This is the type of Economic Development that UNF is simply not capable of.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/fsu-studio-expand-plans-for-digital-animation-college-1408390.html
You do realize that's a irrelevant comparison. I personally discussed this the other day with an administrator at UNF. If a private developer came up to UNF with $81 million in state and local money and wanted them to simply administer a dual enrollment program(they and JU both offer dual enrollment programs now)... it would happen.
Not irrelevant in the slightest. Do you think Digital Domain (the company who did effects on Tron and Avatar) just magically decided to up and move to Florida? Do you think they would have leveraged public investment without the help of FSU? As an FSU grad you must be aware that our film school is right behind USC, UCLA, and NYU as one of the
best in the country. Think those things might have played a role in this
project and Digital Domains decision to invest in Florida?
Like I said, that's the type of economic development UNF is just not capable of.
-Signed
An FSU graduate.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 09:23:29 AM
Quote from: CityLife on May 27, 2011, 12:47:11 AM
wsansewjs, as a digital media graduate you may be able to appreciate this project that FSU is partnering with James Cameron's company (Digital Domain) on in Downtown West Palm Beach. This is the type of Economic Development that UNF is simply not capable of.
You do realize that's a irrelevant comparison. I personally discussed this the other day with an administrator at UNF. If a private developer came up to UNF with $81 million in state and local money and wanted them to simply administer a dual enrollment program(they and JU both offer dual enrollment programs now)... it would happen.
-Signed
An FSU graduate.
It's also looking at only one program. FSU has a highly regarded college of film studies. UF doesn't have a film school at all, does that mean the school is less capable of economic development? Of course not. It also doesn't follow that the contributions of a school are inconsequential because they don't measure up to FSU. California's higher ed system isn't so great because it has two great universities; it's because it has those plus eight other great universities.
Its not FSU versus UF. Its about FSU, UF, USF, and UCF vs. UNF. That was just one recent example of a major project. The projects that those schools are doing from an economic development standpoint are on a totally different level than UNF. You just have to look at the Lake Nona projects in Orlando that UF and UCF are doing and stuff related to the National High Magnetic Lab in Tallahassee.
And FYI, California's Higher Ed system is completely screwed right now. Probably because it over funded funded schools like UC Davis, UC Santa Barbara, etc too much and spread itself too thin. I'd hate to see that happen to Florida in a few years. Also California has a very high state income tax, higher population, and waaaay more wealth than Florida, so you can't really use that as an example. Nor can you use Texas due to its oil money.
Look there is nothing at all to argue here anymore. UNF can't be mad when it doesn't get a piece of pie when the big boys don't either.
I have degrees from both UNF and FSU. How you can place UCF in the same category as UF and FSU is beyond me.
And who cares, anyway? UNF is the home team. They have a presence downtown. Why wouldn't anyone in Jacksonville want to see the very best outcome for UNF at budget time? I don't get the negativity.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 27, 2011, 11:44:31 AM
I have degrees from both UNF and FSU. How you can place UCF in the same category as UF and FSU is beyond me.
And who cares, anyway? UNF is the home team. They have a presence downtown. Why wouldn't anyone in Jacksonville want to see the very best outcome for UNF at budget time? I don't get the negativity.
As a UNF alumni please call them and ask what cuts will be made due to the loss of the $1.9 million. Then please report back. Our passions are getting heated without complete information.
No.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 27, 2011, 11:47:25 AM
No.
Well my argument remains that UNF will not lose anything worthwhile with a minor cut of $1.9 million dollars. Until you, or anyone, can point to something substantial that was lost by this (and only this) I won't shed a tear.
You wouldn't shed a tear either way. You're happy with Scott, happy with his veto, and happy to see less money available to the higher education system. I've paid attention to your debate style here.
So, no. I won't play along.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 27, 2011, 11:49:51 AM
You wouldn't shed a tear either way. You're happy with Scott, happy with his veto, and happy to see less money available to the higher education system. I've paid attention to your debate style here.
So, no. I won't play along.
Well I'm sure you and other successful UNF alumni can easily make up for the $1.9 million in budget guts with donations this year.
Quote from: Jimmy on May 27, 2011, 11:44:31 AM
I have degrees from both UNF and FSU. How you can place UCF in the same category as UF and FSU is beyond me.
And who cares, anyway? UNF is the home team. They have a presence downtown. Why wouldn't anyone in Jacksonville want to see the very best outcome for UNF at budget time? I don't get the negativity.
UCF has grown by leaps and bounds and is really pushing to step into the big leagues. They have already taken quite a bit of regionally driven pork (Med School, New Arena) and I'd hate to see that happen with every state school. UCF's emergence has forced FSU to not be complacent anymore and step things up. FSU was in quicksand with an awful President the past few years, but the new President Barron is excellent.
The argument here is that UNF supporters shouldn't complain about not getting funding when the state's best institution UF (who is on an entirely different level) isn't getting funding either. That is all I have been arguing and frankly there is no way you can argue against that.
Like I said, I like UNF. My sister went there as did many of my friends. I'd love to see the school do well and become an economic development engine for Jax. However, UNF and its supporters need to understand the reality of the situation. I apologize for being a blunt realist.
Right now it's pay-back time for deficit cuts. Soon enough though it will get to the heart of what the GOP holds dear and lordy, lordy,then will be the screaming.
Quote@Field
Not irrelevant in the slightest. Do you think Digital Domain (the company who did effects on Tron and Avatar) just magically decided to up and move to Florida? Do you think they would have leveraged public investment without the help of FSU? As an FSU grad you must be aware that our film school is right behind USC, UCLA, and NYU as one of the best in the country. Think those things might have played a role in this
project and Digital Domains decision to invest in Florida?
Like I said, that's the type of economic development UNF is just not capable of.
It's irrelevant b/c it was from the very beginning a for-profit school. FSU had nothing to do with this coming into existence. They asked FSU to house a small number of film students there. The school then saw an opportunity to get a piece of the very large pie of public and private money that was brought to the table by someone else and decided to expand their presence from being an advisor on curriculum to actually offering a dual enrollment program that had control of curriculum(btw, this is unprecedented to team up with a for-profit school). They didn't bring money to the table, nor had any skin in the game.
JU has started a film school. Do you think if a private investor with $81 million in public funding and another $20 million from foreign royal families with oil money knocked on THEIR door(not the other way around)... that they wouldn't do the same thing? Or if Preston Haskell said 'hey, I'm going to give you $80 million to expand your construction managment program' that they wouldn't do backflips to build a tower with a Mt Rushmore-like monument of he and his wife's face at the top with a big bright flashing neon Haskell Corporation sign right below it and stick this huge Tower of Haskell right downtown?
QuotePresident Barron is excellent
Yeah, he just fired a bunch of (EXCELLENT)faculty b/c a large donor didn't like them. Let's temper your praise
just a scoach.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 02:19:00 PM
Quote@Field
Not irrelevant in the slightest. Do you think Digital Domain (the company who did effects on Tron and Avatar) just magically decided to up and move to Florida? Do you think they would have leveraged public investment without the help of FSU? As an FSU grad you must be aware that our film school is right behind USC, UCLA, and NYU as one of the best in the country. Think those things might have played a role in this
project and Digital Domains decision to invest in Florida?
Like I said, that's the type of economic development UNF is just not capable of.
It's irrelevant b/c it was from the very beginning a for-profit school. FSU had nothing to do with this coming into existence. They asked FSU to house a small number of film students there. The school then saw an opportunity to get a piece of the very large pie of public and private money that was brought to the table by someone else and decided to expand their presence from being an advisor on curriculum to actually offering a dual enrollment program that had control of curriculum(btw, this is unprecedented to team up with a for-profit school). They didn't bring money to the table, nor had any skin in the game.
JU has started a film school. Do you think if a private investor with $81 million in public funding and another $20 million from foreign royal families with oil money knocked on THEIR door(not the other way around)... that they wouldn't do the same thing? Or if Preston Haskell said 'hey, I'm going to give you $80 million to expand your construction managment program' that they wouldn't do backflips to build a tower with a Mt Rushmore-like monument of he and his wife's face at the top with a big bright flashing neon Haskell Corporation sign right below it and stick this huge Tower of Haskell right downtown?
QuotePresident Barron is excellent
Yeah, he just fired a bunch of (EXCELLENT)faculty b/c a large donor didn't like them. Let's temper your praise just a scoach.
So wrong I don't know where to start. 1. Nobody got fired. The issue was a donor influencing who was hired (which turned out to be drastically exaggerated) 2. Dr. Barron wasn't even President of FSU in 2008 and 2009 when this went down.
Its cool though. You can still hop on the Barron bandwagon.
As for the Digital Domain thing. You are once again wrong. FSU has been on board the entire time since they decided to open in Port St. Lucie in 2009. Digital Domain announced it was moving to Port St. Lucie in July 09 and FSU announced it was on board in September 09, right after the local gov't agreed to help finance the project. They were working with DD behind the scenes the entire time. Heck the project didn't even get the $20 million in state dollars until FSU came on board.
DIGITAL DOMAIN TIMELINE
July 2009: Digital Domain publicly announces plans to build a movie animation studio in Port St. Lucie and create up to 500 jobs with an average annual salary of $65,000.
August 2009: The City Council agrees to purchase 15 acres for $10 million from Tradition Outlet LLC to build Digital Domain an approximate 150,000 square foot movie animation studio, part of a $51.8 million city incentive package to lure the company here.
September 2009: Florida State University’s award-winning film school releases a letter of intent to partner with Digital Domain to build the Digital Domain Institute, a four-year program in advanced digital media supported by FSU’s College of Motion Picture Arts.
October 2009: State of Florida awards Digital Domain $20 million in economic development money to locate in Port St. Lucie.
November 2009: Digital Domain begins hiring for its Port St. Lucie facility.
December 2009: The City Council gives final approval to a 20-year lease agreement with Digital Domain.
January 2010: Digital Domain moves into leased space at Tradition Station
February 2010: The City Council authorizes the city issuing $39.9 million in bonds to build Digital Domain’s movie animation studio.
Look I don't enjoy being a douche, just enjoy facts.
Let's not make it sound like Florida is the only state doing this. And let's not villify Rick Scott being the only governor making tough cuts.
I am a graduate of a small campus of the State University in New York. It's a democratic state, with a democratic governor. They're having a lot of trouble up there too, like every other state, and there's cuts being made.
I know because I keep getting letters, and even phone calls, from the college soliciting my donations to make up for lost funding.
I think if the UNF alumni are so passionate for their school, as they seem to be in this thread, than the solution is to make up for the lost funds with donations, fund raisers, etc. like my alma mater is doing.
Sometimes the cure feels worse than the disease. But you're right, stephendare, we're on our way out of this wilderness.
Quote from: stephendare on May 27, 2011, 02:59:59 PM
Quote from: BigGuy219 on May 27, 2011, 02:49:42 PM
Let's not make it sound like Florida is the only state doing this. And let's not villify Rick Scott being the only governor making tough cuts.
I am a graduate of a small campus of the State University in New York. It's a democratic state, with a democratic governor. They're having a lot of trouble up there too, like every other state, and there's cuts being made.
I know because I keep getting letters, and even phone calls, from the college soliciting my donations to make up for lost funding.
I think if the UNF alumni are so passionate for their school, as they seem to be in this thread, than the solution is to make up for the lost funds with donations, fund raisers, etc. like my alma mater is doing.
I love Rick Scott. He delivered us from the possibility of Mayor Hogan, and he is going to guarantee that the right wing republicans in charge of the state house are going to get turned out on their ears in the elections. He may even be personally responsible for giving Florida to President Obama.
He is truly a historic person for the Democratic Party.
Eehhh, I am confused from reading this, because I am in a battle between of assuming if you were being sarcastic or being blunt.
-Josh
Basic money for renovations or building constructions isn't going to kill a system. If you've been to a university, you'll notice they have a TON of space compared to it's usage compared to other places.
If you go to a city like prosperous city like Tokyo, you'll see they still manage to do a ton of stuff with space that would make most of us go crazy. There's one room with like 20 people and those 20 people manage to create pretty innovative stuff. You don't NEED a gigantic building to build cool stuff. It is nice to have but not absolutely necessary. What really matters is the culture of the organization and how they deal with things.
Your complains will probably be valid soon enough but as of today, as of right now, this is not the area where you should complain about. Renovations and building constructions (unless absolutely positively necessary) can wait. It's when they cut programs, systems, and employees is when these complaints will be valid but not now.
If you want a big example of how this can work, look at Wal-Mart! They manage to operate one of the country's largest companies in a dinky little building that Sam Walton build ages ago. For some reason, Wal-Mart doesn't have a problem attracting suppliers to them even with that!
It is not just what these cuts will do it is seeing that far right republicans are chipping away at education funding every year. Good or Bad times are when they cut education. If private is what they want just be honest and try to win people over to your point of view. Everyone else please stop falling for the joke of an argument that you can cut funding every year and make it work better and better.
Seeing as though I'm a little more familiar with the deal than your expert googling skills, I will state again... FSU did not bring this about. This is, after all, a FOR-PROFIT school(and will remain as such) that came to FSU with tons of money in hand and asked them to more or less be an administrative advisor... which FSU's involvment turned out to be something different than the original intention with the dual enrollment program.
Don't portray Baron as a hero in the faculty scandal. He only reinstated these guys by court order. If he was a hero, his first order of business would have been to regain control of the school from Big Money and unilaterally reinstated these guys.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 03:37:51 PM
Seeing as though I'm a little more familiar with the deal than your expert googling skills, I will state again... FSU did not bring this about. This is, after all, a FOR-PROFIT school(and will remain as such) that came to FSU with tons of money in hand and asked them to more or less be an administrative advisor... which FSU's involvment turned out to be something different than the original intention with the dual enrollment program.
Don't portray Baron as a hero in the faculty scandal. He only reinstated these guys by court order. If he was a hero, his first order of business would have been to regain control of the school from Big Money and unilaterally reinstated these guys.
Logic and newspaper stories dictate otherwise. If FSU was on board with Digital Domain "officially" as early as September 2009, doesn't logic dictate that FSU would play a large part in everything that happened with the project after? Don't you think FSU played a large part in securing the $20 million in state dollars in October 2009? What about the $10 million grant from WPB? "We are doing something mighty," said West Palm Beach City Commissioner Kimberly Mitchell, an FSU graduate. "The fact that it gets to be my alma mater is so great." Yea having an alum on the City Council and a strong alumni network in politics had nothing to do with getting the public $....
Despite what an administrator from UNF told you, the project doesn't happen without FSU. Notice Digital Domain didn't partner with UNF on the project, despite UNF having a pre-exisiting Digital Media program? That is all my original point was in the first place anyways. UNF isn't on the level with FSU or UF. Not sure why you are wasting your time arguing this.
Speaking of Google researchers...not even going to discuss the Barron issue with someone who didn't even know what happened until 5 minutes ago and found out through poorly written articles.
QuoteLogic and newspaper stories dictate otherwise.
Well, they are clients of mine so...
Quotenot even going to discuss the Barron issue with someone who didn't even know what happened until 5 minutes ago and found out through poorly written articles.
Seeing as though I keep in close contact with two of my former professors who were those that were part of the group summarily laid off so...
I find that you learn a lot more by listening to people than you do searching the internet to try to tell them they were wrong.
Quote from: fieldafm on May 27, 2011, 04:49:39 PM
QuoteLogic and newspaper stories dictate otherwise.
Well, they are clients of mine so...
Quotenot even going to discuss the Barron issue with someone who didn't even know what happened until 5 minutes ago and found out through poorly written articles.
Seeing as though I keep in close contact with two of my former professors who were those that were part of the group summarily laid off so...
I find that you learn a lot more by listening to people than you do searching the internet to try to tell them they were wrong.
Digital Domain is a client of yours? If so they think that the second best university in the state of Florida didn't help them acquire the public investments which helped them open up? They think UNF is a better institution than FSU?
Are you saying Koch had professors laid off? Again, Barron was not President when the contract with Koch was signed and he also doesn't make every personnel decision at the university.
From PolitifactFlorida:
Gov. Rick Scott says state debt is $23 billion
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/jun/13/rick-scott/gov-rick-scott-says-state-debt-23-billion/ (http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2011/jun/13/rick-scott/gov-rick-scott-says-state-debt-23-billion/)
QuoteWhere does he get that number?
Our search for the state debt level starts with Scott spokesman Lane Wright. He directed us to a December 2010 report on Florida's debt affordability, written by the State Board of Administration's Division of Bond Finance. The division is responsible for executing bonds authorized by the Legislature and administers financing programs for educational facilities and transportation projects, among other programs.
As of June 30, 2010, the state's total overall debt outstanding stood at $28.2 billion.
Now, this doesn't mean Scott's figure is off from the get-go. That $28.2 billion figure includes $23.6 billion for "net tax-supported debt" and $4.6 billion for "self-supporting debt."
These are important differences to understand (page 7 of the document is helpful).
Net tax-supported debt, which Scott seems to reference in his TV interview, is debt accrued when the state issues bonds to raise money for spending on projects such as PECO, Everglades restoration, right-of-way acquisition for roads and bridge construction.
Self-supporting debt is made up of bonds that include a source of revenue, and is excluded when calculating the state's benchmark debt ratio. Examples of this are bonds to build toll roads, covered by the tolls, or university dorm maintenance, covered by student fees.
Net tax-supported debt is paid off through the state's ability to tax all residents and tourists, while self-supporting debt is paid off by the people who pay to use the facilities.
The rest of the article has some pretty interesting info about state debt. You know, for freaks like me who are interested in those things. :)