Rebuild Monroe Street, Why Bother?

[Doctor_K]

None at all?  Are you sure??

[thelakelander]

You can't get a building permit with being ADA accessible.  I don't know where information that the courthouse is not wheelchair accessible is coming from.  However, I can say that it is most likely wrong.

[stjr]

You can't get a building permit with being ADA accessible.  I don't know where information that the courthouse is not wheelchair accessible is coming from.  However, I can say that it is most likely wrong.

I raised the handicap issue previously.  Not, per se, within the confines of the building, but in terms of a drop off area and the distance from that point to a publicly accessible entry point into the building.  I commented that it looked like a good block from any street curb to the front door if you remove Monroe in front of the building and don't replace it with some sort of driveway access.  Lake, you actually bantered with me on this at the time.  Do you know of another public access to the building from one of the remaining immediately adjacent streets?

[ricker]

curbside lane in blastzone portico for loading and unloading only_
not possible to add a stacking lane to Adams?
hmm
an extended overhang jutting out over a side lane scaled similarly to the Omni entrance tucked away off Water could be an easy retrofit.
thus providing a easy in for those scoot seat bound?

[thelakelander]

You can't get a building permit with being ADA accessible.  I don't know where information that the courthouse is not wheelchair accessible is coming from.  However, I can say that it is most likely wrong.

I raised the handicap issue previously.  Not, per se, within the confines of the building, but in terms of a drop off area and the distance from that point to a publicly accessible entry point into the building.  I commented that it looked like a good block from any street curb to the front door if you remove Monroe in front of the building and don't replace it with some sort of driveway access.  Lake, you actually bantered with me on this at the time.  Do you know of another public access to the building from one of the remaining immediately adjacent streets?

I have not seen the plans up close but I would assume that this complex will have at least three entrances since there are three buildings (new courthouse, old post office and the Ed Ball Building).  As far as a drop off lane goes, in front of the new courthouse this can easily be done with drop-off lane at Adams & Clay, similar to the drop off circle at the Prime Osborn.  Through good design, this can be incorporated into the green space and would cost a lot less than rebuilding Monroe.




Notice the old terminal's circular drop off area, extending west of the Lee and Water Street intersection.  Something similar could be done for the front of the courthouse from the intersection of Adams & Clay.  Throw a water feature in it, integrate it with the two block green space and it could be a pretty nice focal point.

[heights unknown]

I also agree; downtown Jax is more concrete than anything else, un-pedestrian friendly, and maybe if we had more green ingrained within the concrete for people to congregate (pedestrian friendly and don't bring the homeless issue up!), then I think we'd really be on to something. Great thread.

"HU"

[CS Foltz]

To be honest...........have no idea as to wheeled access! But not really evident from what I have seen regarding Main Entrance! Maybe there is a side entrance that covers that, but not really evident from renderings.....main entrance is stepped, so maybe someone in the know might be able to address this question?

[thelakelander]

You can't build a non ADA accessible building from scratch today.  I have not seen the plans up close but I'm in 100% belief that the main entrance is ADA accessible.

[CS Foltz]

lake if you say so..............will take your word for it! Just not really evident and not really pedestrian friendly from what I have seen.

[thelakelander]

It's not going to be evident unless you look at the actual floor plans up close.  You're going to have a hard time identifying ADA compliant ramps, door openings, etc. from conceptual renderings posted on sites like this.

[fieldafm]

From Times Union(Ron Littlepage):

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/400601/ron-littlepage/2011-01-08/monroe-street-grand-entrance-doomed

Monroe Street as one of the grand entrances to downtown is kaput.

You remember the grand entrances idea, don't you?

A couple of decades ago, Chamber of Commerce types groused about how embarrassing it was to bring business prospects to downtown via what was a very shabby LaVilla.

Those coming from the airport were often taken past downtown and over the Fuller Warren Bridge so they could enter downtown over the Main Street bridge.

Then along came the River City Renaissance.

Most of LaVilla was bulldozed, and the streets running through it were redone.

For motorists coming from the south and exiting off Interstate 95, Monroe Street was to be one of those grand entrances with its new sidewalks, faux historic street lights and stately palm trees.

Today, there's a problem, a rather large one.

A sizeable chunk of the new county courthouse now under construction sits in the middle of Monroe Street.

Actually, there are two problems.

The ordinance approving construction of the courthouse requires that Monroe Street remains open.

That made sense at one time, but the design of the courthouse changed and it now blocks Monroe.

One option would be to curve Monroe Street around the courthouse.

That, however, is not practical because the curved road would have to go either smack dab up against the entrance to the courthouse or smack dab up against Adams Street.

Ron Barton, the executive director of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission, is arguing that instead of rerouting Monroe Street, the area between the courthouse and Adams Street should become a public plaza.

That make sense, and the ordinance requiring an open Monroe Street needs to be amended by the City Council to allow it.

If you haven't seen the new courthouse, the first description that comes to mind is huge, really huge. Having open space in front of it will provide some breathing room.

And no matter what you think of the courthouse - a lot of folks aren't too keen on it, and you can count me in that group - it's reality now, and as a signature public building in downtown, it needs to be done correctly.

Besides, creating the plaza likely would be cheaper than redoing the road.
As for those motorists getting off I-95 who want to get to the heart of downtown, the right signage could direct them from Monroe to Jefferson Street to Forsyth Street.

That's not exactly a straight shot, but it would get the job done.

It also might help if some of the one-way streets that turn downtown into a confusing mess for those who don't frequent it often were made into two-way streets.

There is a study under way to determine what traffic patterns would work best for downtown. There has to be a better way than what's there now.

As for Monroe Street, it is what it is - a grand entrance to a grand, $350-million (ugh) courthouse.

[Ocklawaha]

LOOK MOM NO STREET!!




SO WHAT IF WE DID AWAY WITH THE STREET BUT KEPT THE STREETCAR LINE?



SEND IT THROUGH A PRETTY PLAZA



MAYBE A TRANSIT ONLY BOARDING ZONE?




LIKE THIS UNIVERSITY'S SIDEWALK CAFE?



MAYBE TAKE A PAGE FROM TAMPA'S SOUTHERN TRANSPORTATION PLAZA?




A COZY ALL WEATHER STATION THAT COMPLIMENTS THE COURTHOUSE? MAYBE ENOUGH PILLARS TO PUT IT JUST THIS SIDE OF THE PARTHENON?




OR KEEP IT SIMPLE LIKE MC GRAW SQUARE IN SEATTLE + ICE CREAM TRUCK!



MORAL: "YOU DON'T NEED PAVEMENT TO BE A BIG CITY, TIME TO PULL YOUR HEAD OUT JACKSONVILLE..."

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

You're in luck, Ock.  JTA has a BRT stop on Broad Street that will be adjacent to this proposed public space.

[ricker]

pavement free streetcar tracks make me randy

[BridgeTroll]

Your becoming famous Ennis!

http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2011-02-20/story/monroe-street-two-urban-wrongs

Monroe Street: Two urban wrongs
Posted: February 20, 2011

Mike Clark/The Times-Union

Monroe Street was supposed to provide a straight shot from Interstate 95 to the Hart Expressway.

Then something happened: A gargantuan courthouse was plopped right on Monroe Street.

From all appearances, Monroe Street dead-ends at Broad Street.

But some insist that Monroe Street connection across downtown ought to exist, never mind the courthouse in the way. To keep the street heading east, it must take a turn around the new courthouse.

As The Times-Union reported earlier, the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission supports the closure of Monroe Street.

City Council tabled the closure recently as Councilman Michael Corrigan said the issue deserves a community discussion.

Let's pretend

It shouldn't take much time. Extending Monroe Street is based on pretending that a massive new building isn't blocking the way.

The new looping, swerving Monroe Street will look like a service road, an invitation for people to drop off passengers, perhaps even a security issue.

Besides, the idea that drivers are being inconvenienced doesn't apply. The Forsyth Street exit downtown comes first for northbound traffic on Interstate 95 and is more convenient for drivers looking for the parking garage to the south of the courthouse.

In fact, eastbound drivers on Monroe Street would have to double back to reach the entrance to the courthouse parking garage.

Think of pedestrians

As urban planner Ennis Davis wrote on these pages Tuesday, the new Monroe Street design would give traffic priority over pedestrians downtown.

It's all about envisioning downtown as a livable neighborhood or just a place to escape from.

Closing Monroe Street would allow for a pedestrian park, more access to street-level retail, urban bicycle paths and other amenities. And it probably would be cheaper than building the road.

Besides, if most interior downtown streets become two-way, then many of the inconveniences of driving downtown are removed. Davis notes that one-way streets would be left around the perimeter of the downtown core, such as Broad-Jefferson and State-Union.

Turning Monroe Street into a winding path around the courthouse is like cramming a round street into a straight hole.

Downtown has more than enough concrete. That new courthouse could use some trees, some gardens and a parklike setting.

The time to protect Monroe Street was before the courthouse was built on top of it.

If it was a mistake to place the new courthouse on Monroe Street, then let's not make another one.

That winding street looks ridiculous. We have been getting along just fine with a closed Monroe Street.

If completed, it can only lead to that unofficial motto of urban planning known to Jacksonville residents:

What were they thinking?



Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/opinion/editorials/2011-02-20/story/monroe-street-two-urban-wrongs#ixzz1EVsVHnQa