Berkman II developer is mum on its future

[Ethylene]

The inquisitive Colombian attitude is sort of  like, "So you built a new home? Cool, what features did your architect pioneer in it?"[/b]

OCKLAWAHA

Suggested solution, I guess we all should employ more architects! And our architects should parlay more fantasy into reality! My next home will be in a much more modern vein or I will die trying to obtain same! Those are some great pics Ock, thank you for posting.

[ChriswUfGator]

folks it is really simple...the City doesn't own the property....unless it is physically dangerous, demolition is out of the question

Been to Springfield lately?

[tufsu1]

um...the City labels those properties as dangerous, requires the owner to make repairs, then demolishes if need be

[ChriswUfGator]

um...the City labels those properties as dangerous, requires the owner to make repairs, then demolishes if need be

Actually, they label them "dangerous" because some paint is peeling or the weeds in the yard have grown too high. Real danger there, huh? Then they intentionally mail the violation notices to incorrect addresses (or not at all), so the owner doesn't find out about it until the fines have become massive. Then they demolish it using their emergency demolition powers, notwithstanding the fact that no emergency or public danger exists, tearing the place down before anybody has the chance to know what was going on, much less do anything about it.

So they can do that, but can't take down a ruined structure, which partly collapsed during construction killing a worker?

[CS Foltz]

Makes  me wonder why that Hotel downtown, which appears to me to be a hazard, is still standing? Evidently there appears to be two sets of rules........single homes go in the blink of an eye, but a multi-room ex-hotel dwelling can hang around forever! WTF?

[Ethylene]

Makes me wonder why that Hotel downtown, which appears to me to be a hazard, is still standing? Evidently there appears to be two sets of rules........single homes go in the blink of an eye, but a multi-room ex-hotel dwelling can hang around forever! WTF?

Ok, here goes, my 100th post! I guess you're speaking of the Park View Inn above. It not only appears to be a hazard, it most definitely is! Sometime ago, more than a year, I was taking my usual route on foot past this hideous complex and I suddenly heard metal sliding. I stopped in my tracks to figure out what was happening and sure enough a portion of the roof came sliding in my direction. I quickly determined I was far enough away on the sidewalk to avoid being t-boned but it was not out of the realm of possibility that anyone venturing any closer for any reason might have been clobbered!

Imagine being homeless, down on your luck, sleeping off the Colt 45 or what have you, only to be rousted still pickled and now also skewered!

Hours later on my return trek, that long metal section had been carted off, otherwise I would have called it in! In hindsight, I wish I had raised cain about this long neglected hazard! How long before parts begin sliding off Berkman II?

[ChriswUfGator]

Makes me wonder why that Hotel downtown, which appears to me to be a hazard, is still standing? Evidently there appears to be two sets of rules........single homes go in the blink of an eye, but a multi-room ex-hotel dwelling can hang around forever! WTF?

Ok, here goes, my 100th post! I guess you're speaking of the Park View Inn above. It not only appears to be a hazard, it most definitely is! Sometime ago, more than a year, I was taking my usual route on foot past this hideous complex and I suddenly heard metal sliding. I stopped in my tracks to figure out what was happening and sure enough a portion of the roof came sliding in my direction. I quickly determined I was far enough away on the sidewalk to avoid being t-boned but it was not out of the realm of possibility that anyone venturing any closer for any reason might have been clobbered!

Imagine being homeless, down on your luck, sleeping off the Colt 45 or what have you, only to be rousted still pickled and now also skewered!

Hours later on my return trek, that long metal section had been carted off, otherwise I would have called it in! In hindsight, I wish I had raised cain about this long neglected hazard! How long before parts begin sliding off Berkman II?

Well the place was not exactly what you'd call "well-built" to begin with. I'm not sure if you remember or not, or how long you've been in Jacksonville, but this was the very same building whose attached parking garage randomly collapsed and killed a worker during initial construction because of bad design and construction defects.

So your guess is as good as mine as to how long it's going to stay open and exposed to the elements and salt air before all the rebar is corroded and the place becomes structurally unsound. Given all the shenanigans that went on during its construction, I doubt it will last very long...

[Non-RedNeck Westsider]

The design was fine - the concrete sub was cutting corners with the concrete's psi rating and the pour was all jacked up - air bubbles.  They were being sloppy and cost someone his life.  Let's also remember that if this had happened at 9 instead of 5:30 - you can add 50 - 100 more people to the obituary.

[braeburn]

That's very true and frightening to think about.

Didn't the city give this land to the developer on the promise of completing a 2nd tower by 2009? Perhaps there is an avenue in that direction to get something done.

Imagine living in any of those 3 bedroom units or adjacent floor-plans at The Plaza that face the monstrosity....

[buckethead]

The design was fine - the concrete sub was cutting corners with the concrete's psi rating and the pour was all jacked up - air bubbles.  They were being sloppy and cost someone his life.  Let's also remember that if this had happened at 9 instead of 5:30 - you can add 50 - 100 more people to the obituary.

I have some hearsay info too. I heard it collapsed due to insuffficient bracing. Additionally that there were forty people on the top floor completing a pour at the time of the collapse.

Perhaps we should open a can of google and try to find the facts?

[CS Foltz]

I had thought that the "City Building Inspectors" would have been on scene for concrete pours? Have seen plenty of City people on site at the new Courthouse. I have been in on building multifloor concrete structures (post tensioned designs) and you have a big enough length of floor, it is broke down into two pours. Vibrators are all over the place to drive air pockets out but from the looks of it, the Berkman II is old school design. I saw no evidence of cables............just a lot of rebar up as well as out. Had "Inspectors" all over the cotton picking place........this process was used on all of the projects I worked on from Pensacola to Mobile Bay.

[fieldafm]

Bucket,
The TU did a story about this last year...

http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2009-12-05/story/berkman_plaza_2_years_later_a_trail_and_tale_of_fatal_errors

[buckethead]

I remember that story. I recall the blame being distributed around. Each finger pointer has what seems a valid argument. Having poured a little bit of concrete, I know that too much re bar in too little an area will prevent you from being able to sufficiently fill all voids. (even with a vibrator)

Additionally, the engineer has a valid point about shoring. If he instructed crews to leave all shoring in place until after the top floor had cured, sub crews/General Contractors/Inspectors would also be liable. I don't see any specific claim to that effect in the article.

What is unsure is whether the garage was indeed capable of standing after completion and carrying a maximum live load. (cars)

This article is preliminary and as I (mis?)understand, no final judgements have been made.

Occurrences such as this certainly undermine confidence in hi rise construction and long term safety.

[CS Foltz]

I wonder just why they are using outdated designs and construction methods? State of the Art,back in the late 80's was "Post tensioned Cable Structures"! Cables took the place of alot of the rebar, cost was lowered, but took an archetetic with some smarts to generate plans that made sense! Cost, overall, was cheaper than a straight rebar'd building of any size on a square foot basis!

[Ocklawaha]

CAN YOU GUESS WHICH ONE IS IN THE "3RD WORLD?" IE: Colombia?

The Peninsula is a giant step in the right direction, as is the ground floors of the Strand, very light and international in design. The apartments themselves were something of a disappointment, carpet everywhere, standard fixtures... YAWN. 11E, Carling, and best of show, METROPOLITAN LOFTS are the closest thing to the international flair I grew so fond of in the Andes.

The inquisitive Colombian attitude is sort of  like, "So you built a new home? Cool, what features did your architect pioneer in it?"

OCKLAWAHA

Answer to the qestion? They are ALL from Colombia!




OCKLAWAHA