Lawsuits filed by RAM attendees make me HOT

[ChriswUfGator]

Of course settlements.  That's the dirty little dance that the  plaintiff's attorneys and the insurance companies have going and we all pay the price in our premiums.  The attorneys and the insurance companies are NOT opponents.

I can assure you that's total bunk. Plaintiffs attorneys and insurance companies most certainly ARE opponents.

Where do you come up with this utter nonsense? I bet I can guess...

[ChriswUfGator]

And I lent one of my vacant offices to a private investigator so he could videotape an "injured and disabled" client of a prominent law firm load heavy boxes on a truck.

There is little admirable in either camp and you are right about the insurance companies when it comes to injury claims.

Do you have any idea what the man's job was?

Being able to lift a box doesn't mean he's able to perform his profession. What if the guy was an airline pilot, and because of the injury he's unable to get his FAA medical certificate renewed? (Actual case). What if he's a surgeon, and because of neurological damage his hands tremble? (Actual case). What if he's a bus driver, and because of a back injury requiring fused discs he cannot sit for 8 hours at a time? (Actual case).

All those people could certainly lift some silly boxes, but that doesn't mean they're fit to perform their jobs. This is why all the anecdotal B.S. you right-wingers spew is really so crazy. It's like you're replacing actual logic with this "feel good" "downhome commonsense" crap, except that's not actually how the world works, and it's usually so completely off base that it's not even funny.

[Dog Walker]

Every injury, incident or bad outcome does not result from negligence.  

Current "tort reform" measures that are being talked about now such as caps on awards are scams put out by the insurance companies and will not result in fewer lawsuits or lower premiums.

It is indeed a complicated subject and there are no simple answers, but our current arrangement is not good and is being abused by both the insurance companies and the personal injury industry at our expense.

And WOW!  I've NEVER been accused of being right-wing before.  It's a funny feeling.  

[Dog Walker]

Sorry Chris.  That was exactly the job that was claimed he could no longer do.  Irony was that the rented warehouse where he was working was owned by Eddie Farah. (who was not representing him BTW)

[ChriswUfGator]

Sorry Chris.  That was exactly the job that was claimed he could no longer do.  Irony was that the rented warehouse where he was working was owned by Eddie Farah. (who was not representing him BTW)

What was the job, lifting boxes?

So if you lift some boxes one day, that means you can do it 365 days a year?

[ChriswUfGator]

Every injury, incident or bad outcome does not result from negligence. 

Current "tort reform" measures that are being talked about now such as caps on awards are scams put out by the insurance companies and will not result in fewer lawsuits or lower premiums.

It is indeed a complicated subject and there are no simple answers, but our current arrangement is not good and is being abused by both the insurance companies and the personal injury industry at our expense.

And WOW!  I've NEVER been accused of being right-wing before.  It's a funny feeling.   

Nobody said every injury is the result of negligence. What does that have to do with anything?

We're talking about the ones that actually are the result of negligence, and the behavior of the parties afterwards. That's a nice little anecdote, but as usual, not relevant. And I do not agree that any "personal injury industry" exists to any extent that wasn't created by the insurance companies' own unethical claims handling practices.

[Dog Walker]

And I do not agree that any "personal injury industry" exists to any extent that wasn't created by the insurance companies' own unethical claims handling practices.

And if you will add that the industry was also formed by the plaintiff's attorneys unethical behavior creating "negligence" where there wasn't any to get a settlement, then we are in perfect agreement.

[ChriswUfGator]

And I do not agree that any "personal injury industry" exists to any extent that wasn't created by the insurance companies' own unethical claims handling practices.

And if you will add that the industry was also formed by the plaintiff's attorneys unethical behavior creating "negligence" where there wasn't any to get a settlement, then we are in perfect agreement.

The "industry" was formed by the development of unethical insurance adjustment practices that force a disproportionate number of claimants to retain an attorney just in order to get a claim paid.

[simms3]

Yea Stephen thanks...I'm one of the "kids" on this forum and sometimes can come across as immature I imagine, but I have just been kind of baffled by how someone is pushing their argument and bringing partisan lines into it and personal attacks.  That's all I was saying.  Maybe I'm not the youngest person in this thread after all  He thinks my pointing out his personal attacks is a personal attack on him!     I am just done arguing this point; none of us are going to see eye to eye and it's a waste of my time to have this back and forth...

[ChriswUfGator]

Chris, instead of all these vitriolic attacks on "right wingers" you could just make your point and be done with it.  You sound like the most bitter person I could possibly imagine.  I know most people on this forum probably fall into the middle or middle left political spectrum, but for those of us who are middle right, you sound like a little cry baby all the time with your wha wha attacks on evil "right wingers" and Fox News.  Get over it because nobody who already disagrees with your points is going to suddenly agree with you when you are trying to level insults (that imo aren't insults).  I don't hear people calling you a Commie leftist who is brainwashed by MSNBC, so don't do the same with us.  Ya hear?

Typical.

When your argument is disproved by the data, you resort to attacking the opponent in your debate.

And save yourself the carpal tunnel, I couldn't possibly care less what you think of me. *yawn* (ya hear?)

[Dog Walker]

It might be interesting to see how the developed, industrialized countries in Europe and Asia handle the same problems.  It is my understanding that they do not have our big insurance companies or specialized personal injury attorneys. (Don't know for sure)

Do they have a huge number of people who are not compensated after they have been injured by someone's negligence?  Do their insurance companies have a different standard for paying claims?  Does their legal system have a different method of arriving at what is fair without the battle-to-the-death method that we use?

I know that since they have universal medical care that medical costs are not an issue, but what about disability or pain & suffering?  How do people there pay lawyers to take their cases if contingency fees are not allowed?

Chris, do you know of any comparative studies?  Was anything like this covered in your law school courses?

[Dog Walker]

While browsing in the "new non-fiction books" section of the downtown library this past week, I picked up a copy of "Delay, Deny, Defend" by Jay M. Feinman, a distinguished law professor at Rutgers University who has written several books on the law for non-lawyers.  I would not have picked up this book except for our discussion in this thread.

His writing is simple, clear and direct.  He traces the change in insurance companies policies and procedures back to the early '90's when they began to regard the claims offices as profit centers.

Instead of making their insured whole as they have promised to do they are now evaluating their employees on how much they can reduce the claim amounts as established by computer programs.  Claims adjusters are no longer experienced professionals, but clerical types who enter data into "expert" systems that are tuned to make any claim as inexpensive as possible.

He points to State Farm and Allstate as pioneers and worst offenders in this recent effort and has many examples to illustrate the methods used to deny, delay and defend (litigate) as many claims as possible.  He also includes a chapter on the inflated charges of "insurance fraud" and shows how if you have three or more family members in an older car who are injured in an accident the computer program will flag your claim as fraud and their fraud unit will investigate you.

The book and subsequent reading on various web sites has turned my head around completely about the probity of the insurance companies and I didn't have a high regard for them in the first place.  I had no idea that they had changed so much in so short a period of time.

Chris's opinion of them is fully justified.

The "industry" was formed by the development of unethical insurance adjustment practices that force a disproportionate number of claimants to retain an attorney just in order to get a claim paid.

[CS Foltz]

Dog Walker...............your right on the money! Lawyers are a boil on the backside of humanity! Sorry Chris!

[buckethead]

It looks more like a conviction of insurers than lawyers.

[stjr]

It looks more like a conviction of insurers than lawyers.

Maybe they are symbiotic.  One can't survive without the other!