Bringing Amtrak to Downtown Jacksonville Inexpensively

[bl8jaxnative]

I suspect the problem isn't so much congestion as it is that using the old union station as how it would contribute to congestion.  You'd have to move the amtrack trains up the CSX line through Moncrief yard and then back them down FEC into the Union Station.  And that involves moving across a few sets of tracks back and forth.  No matter how quickly that's done, you've gotta block that part off for that chunk of time to keep the passengers safe. So it messes not just with mainline movements but yard activity.

I'd love to see it happen.  But I don't see it as it being a priority.

[Pottsburg]

The damn CSX yard master is so busy right now, they would never let this movement happen without huge changes. Same reason why we all get stuck in San Marco. FEC releases the train to head back across the river and the CSX yard master stops him north of the bridge. He stops home because he's trying to find room and maneuver trains back and forth.

[thelakelander]

Does this resolve that?

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/08/31/jta-laying-groundwork-for-downtown-passenger-rail.html

https://www.news4jax.com/community/2019/06/09/jacksonville-gets-17m-grant-to-ease-train-delays-make-crossings-safer/

It seems a project is in the works. It just hasn't started yet.

[bl8jaxnative]

That's a good question.  I don't think it does.  But I hope I'm wrong.

[Pottsburg]

There's a lot of gray area around there. For example, FEC owns north of the bridge all the way to beaver st overpass, just short of beaver st fisheries, but CSX dispatcher and yard master control up to Jax bridge.  That being said, FEC does all track related work up to the yard.  CSX handles all of the signaling up to the bridge.  Their signaling is a totally different interface with totally different rules.  So if you wanted to change something you'd have to get that much more approval. The whole CSX yard needs updating with better technology, but that's a big ask and would be very expensive

[itsfantastic1]

Amtrak looks to be finalizing their plans to expanding their service; so hopefully, as a city, we're having conversations about the Prime Osborn return to transit, especially with the JRTC next door...

https://www.businessinsider.com/map-amtrak-could-build-expanded-rail-network-biden-infrastructure-plan-2021-4?amp

[Charles Hunter]

Interesting that
- the New Orleans to Jacksonville is shown as "Service Suspended" and doesn't have either the "new" or "enhanced" service line colors.
- there is no "new" coastal (FEC) route from Jax to Miami

[thelakelander]

Interesting. I assume the FEC is out because that's Brightline or bust at the moment. I wonder what the new service south of Jax is? I'm still puzzled why we don't include funds included in the gas tax to complete the return of intercity rail downtown.

[marcuscnelson]

Definitely strange that even in 2035 they don't expect NOLA-JAX to be a thing. But even then, it's the only part of the entire map that lists "service suspended." Is there still track work that would need to be competed for that?

It seems they're just choosing not to compete on the FEC, which I guess makes sense if the trains are likely going to be slower anyway. Although, I think I've heard Brightline say they have "exclusive rights to passenger service," so maybe it's a legal thing too.

My guess when it comes to new service is some kind of special intercity branding, like in the Midwest or the Surfliner in California. Trains that only run between the listed cities, vs as part of the national network. Irony is that they might end up with basically the same rolling stock as Brightline, Chargers pulling Venture coaches. Shame "SunRail" got taken by a commuter service, I still think it'd be a great name for an intrastate service.

[acme54321]

I think the Jax NOLA thing may have something to do with he condition of that section of track. 

[Steve]

I mean, doesn't CSX use that track? If so then I bet that was fixed REALLY quickly after Katrina in 2005. There has to be more to it.

[WAJAS]

Interesting. I assume the FEC is out because that's Brightline or bust at the moment. I wonder what the new service south of Jax is? I'm still puzzled why we don't include funds included in the gas tax to complete the return of intercity rail downtown.

The new service south of Jax does puzzle me. I would assume it was the Sunset Limited if it wasn't for the service suspended section.

[landfall]

I mean, doesn't CSX use that track? If so then I bet that was fixed REALLY quickly after Katrina in 2005. There has to be more to it.

Agreed. Its not like they are up against any strong air service on that route either, its a pretty long drive and as far as I know there isn't any bus service?

[acme54321]

I mean, doesn't CSX use that track? If so then I bet that was fixed REALLY quickly after Katrina in 2005. There has to be more to it.

CSX sold the track between Baldwin and Pensacola to a class III shortline a couple of years ago.  That probably doesn't bode well for long term maintenance of the line as it's like 400 miles long.  Obviously they didn't see the value in it.

[Pottsburg]

I mean, doesn't CSX use that track? If so then I bet that was fixed REALLY quickly after Katrina in 2005. There has to be more to it.

CSX sold the track between Baldwin and Pensacola to a class III shortline a couple of years ago.  That probably doesn't bode well for long term maintenance of the line as it's like 400 miles long.  Obviously they didn't see the value in it.

I can personally confirm that the track is in horrible condition. FEC was going to buy it until they saw the condition, some of the bridges need major renovations. Also the current owners wanted to make it all dark territory, and if that has happened Amtrak won't be able to use it.  This line needs one of the Class 1s to buy it, or Someone like Grupo.