Save the Riverside Trolley Push: Riverside Trolley/JTA meeting

[tufsu1]

The original idea here was to connect various dining and entertainment areas to foster growth. Like connecting Riverside to Bay Street, etc.

from what I can tell, there is very little change to the proposed route versus the current route....so other than the increased fare from $0.50 to $1.00, what is the downside to this versus the current "trolley"?

[Doctor_K]

from the other thread on the matter:

Interesting that the shorter/more compact route, running for only part of the day 5 days a week, gets better ridership than a 'full' bus line.
Probably because?:
1. It serves a target demographic
2. It serves a target geographic area
3. Headways under 40 minutes

Based on these numbers, and IMO, integrating WS1 with the PCT route and finding a not-so-happy-medium between the two lines' existing headways will serve to kill both.  

Fail.

And also what Chris said:

They're turning this thing into just another city bus that nobody will ride.

The original idea here was to connect various dining and entertainment areas to foster growth. Like connecting Riverside to Bay Street, etc.

But now JTA, in all it's infinite lack of wisdom, has evidently seen the opportunity to pinch a couple pennies, and they are massaging the plans for the trolley so they can consolidate existing bus routes into it to save money.

Which means it's just one more crappy bus that happens to look like a trolley. Which ruins the entire idea.

Nobody will use this thing, and it will be a total failure, if they keep changing the route in these ways so it takes an hour to get downtown. 99.9999% of people in this neighborhood have cars, and aren't going to wait an hour to make what amounts to a 5 minute car trip. The only way the trolley will work is if it sticks to the original concept.

[ChriswUfGator]

The original idea here was to connect various dining and entertainment areas to foster growth. Like connecting Riverside to Bay Street, etc.

from what I can tell, there is very little change to the proposed route versus the current route....so other than the increased fare from $0.50 to $1.00, what is the downside to this versus the current "trolley"?

The original idea behind it was for a trolley connecting the burgeoning entertainment district downtown with Riverside and/or San Marco. So the dining & entertainment venues were connected.

Now that JTA is actually planning it, they are turning it into another bus route with too many stops and too long a route, which will inevitably lead to 30-60 minute headways. That will kill any hope of the thing ever being a success, since that's not its purpose and 99% of this neighborhood doesn't use public transit.

This needs to connect the dining & entertainment venues, period. The way they're designing it is clearly an effort to consolidate existing bus routes to save money. Nobody around here takes a bus to go bar hopping, the execution as it's looking now isn't going to work in this demographic. Plain and simple.

And I don't see the point in connecting FSCJ to the route, unless/until they have dorms on campus. That speaks again to JTA's attempt to use this to cut costs and/or ease capacity by consolidating traditional bus routes, and that will kill the trolley's success and intended purpose.

[CS Foltz]

I think we need to start a pool.........on just how long time wise it will take JTA to screw this up also! I am getting tired of renaming and so-called expansion for what...................more concrete? More Bus's? The bovines at JTA just do not see the light and I am getting tired of it! Poop on being Mr Niceguy, its about time to call them the Idiots they are!

[fieldafm]

Christ man, I rode the trolley twice today... and guess what, they were actually on time both times I boarded at different stops.

This has been in operation for 6 days now, lets give it at least say.... 10 days before you start complaining about it.

I DO NOT like that it does not stop at Roosevelt Square.  Ock made a great point a few months ago about connecting it end to end with two major anchors(Landing and Roosevelt Square).  No one ever responded to my multiple emails about this very question, and it was not addressed at the public meeting a few months ago either.

[Jumpinjack]

Haven't ridden the expanded route yet but planning to try it soon. I've ridden the trolley's old route many times and was always been impressed with the friendly drivers and the popularity of the trolley. Roosevelt mall would be a long drive from the current terminus at FSCJ and probably need several stops in between. For sure it would greatly expand the times needed for the route.

[fieldafm]

To me, it's all about connecting the routes end to end.  Three stop lights down Herschel street, passing 4 existing bus stops wouldn't necessarily be a huge burden on the route itself... yet would connect three entire neighborhoods to a more useable and needed end point.

[CS Foltz]

fieldafm...........I can wait 30 days or longer if you think it will help? Connectivity is what makes or breaks any route! My bitch is simple.......as you pointed out "To me, it's all about connecting the routes end to end"!  Plus Crossing points, need to be timed to hook up with another arrival.....crossing to another route or the routes should cross to go to other parts of Jacksonville! It is a matter of timing and integration and I don't think that JTA has the smarts to do that! Simple straight line routes, maybe, if they can meet head times and there are no traffic issues.....road problems.......disabled vehicles and the bus don't die! Plenty of ways to do it, just waiting to see if JTA can come through or not.............after all, its our money!

[fieldafm]

Oh, I missed the part where your rant included something to do with end points... I was under the impression it was about some totally unrelated tie-in about concrete construction, which would likely be a veiled jab at Gate and Herb Peyton?

Why dont you use the service before you comment on it.  Crossing routes?  It doesnt criss-cross or interfere with other routes.   

[Ocklawaha]

Over the weekend we produced a video to Save the Riverside Trolley and spur ideas about optional means of public transportation for the city. We are encouraging all friends, influencers and decision makers to Help Get Jacksonville Back on Tracks (get it!) and not only voice support for the Riverside Trolley, but a fixed-rail trolley option to connect Jacksonville's urban neighborhoods and beyond.

We want help spreading this message via social media, email and word of mouth to create a critical mass of support on July 23rd at JTA for the Riverside Trolley. We feel the trolley is, and will continue to be, an import economic driver for Downtown and Riverside businesses. To see the service dissolved would set us all back in a time when we are trying to build more connections in the city.

Are buses a sustainable answer? Is the Riverside Trolley the gateway drug to a fixed streetcar line connecting Urban Core neighborhoods and beyond. It could be if we show JTA that's what we want.

Joey


Joey.  This was very well meaning and all, but where on earth did this story come from? 

As weve been documenting since the beginning of the trolley line, theres only been talk of the recent expansion.  You guys must have been pretty convinced about this to go to the effort of making a video to save a trolley line that was being expanded.

Did it come from the JTA?

IS THIS THE URBAN JACKSONVILLE TROLLEY?













ANY QUESTIONS?

This isn't the worst of it imo Stephen. The worst of it is that Joey apparently doesn't know the difference in a potato chip truck (PCT) dressed up to be a fake "trolley", and the REAL THING that we call a STREETCAR. UJ fails to recognize that if we ran this pct for 10,000 years, it WILL NOT do a single thing to prove a demand for a real streetcar. This isn't opinion, but a hard learned FACT in the transit industry.

You can call it a "trolley" if you want to Joey, and I can go into a McDonald's and call myself a BIG MAC, but it will not change the fundamental differences. Frankly a case could be made that I'm closer to a BIG MAC then the "trolley" is to a streetcar as I am after all 100% meat while your trolley on rubber bus tires with a polluting diesel engine is a far cry from a clean electric transit vehicle with steel wheels on steel rails.

Worse still, JACKSONVILLE is chock full of JOEYS who continue to surface and tell MJ things like "We don't need streetcars - we already have trolleys!" Toss in JTA types who in the past have said they will put "THE TROLLEY" on to test a future streetcar route, when they KNOW that it will do no such thing. As long as they can keep the population transit ignorant, they will continue to convince the powers that be that trolleys=streetcars (but cheaper-more flexible-and just as attractive) or that BUS RAPID TRANSIT or BRT is "just like rail only cheaper!"

Don't drink the Kool Aid, JTA is merely pissing on your leg and telling you it's raining.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Oh, I missed the part where your rant included something to do with end points... I was under the impression it was about some totally unrelated tie-in about concrete construction, which would likely be a veiled jab at Gate and Herb Peyton?

+100

[ricker]

AMEN fieldafm to connecting the Roosevelt Plazas on 17 to the Landing DT!

[JeffreyS]

It is a really nice bus route maybe one day it will be a trolley or other type of streetcar.

[urbanjacksonville]

Ocklawaha JTA calls it a Trolley. Not me, I'm not the one who branded it. My message was to save whatever "they" were calling it because it's a good thing. In my opinion.

@Stephen,  yes the information on them dissolving the trolley was incorrect, but I retracted that.

What's with the venom blog brothers? Don't rock the boat!

[CS Foltz]

fieldafm..........I have ridden the Trolley, even though it is not a true trolley! Bus's with wheels are not a trolley by any stretch of the imagination! That route is pretty direct, for that area and that is the purpose is it not? Did not mention anything about Gate or concrete which have nothing to do with Riverside Trolley or do they?