It’s the End of the World As We Know It

[finehoe]

In The New York Times today, investment banker and former Clinton Treasury official Roger Altman announced that the alleged "tension between President Obama and the business community" can be solved only if the political class is willing to "fix Social Security" -- i.e., to slash Americans' retirement security.  Sooner or later (probably sooner), one way or another, that's going to happen.  It's inevitable.  As George Carlin put it several years ago, in an amazingly succinct summary of so many things: 

And now, they're coming for your Social Security money - they want your fucking retirement money - they want it back - so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street.  And you know something?  They'll get it.  They'll get it all from you sooner or later.  Because they own this fucking place.  It's a Big Club: and you're not in it.

That's really the only relevant question:  how much longer will Americans sit by passively and watch as a tiny elite become more bloated, more powerful, greedier, more corrupt and more unaccountable -- as the little economic security, privacy and freedom most citizens possess vanish further still?  How long can this be sustained, where more and more money is poured into Endless War, a military that almost spends more than the rest of the world combined, where close to 50% of all U.S. tax revenue goes to military and intelligence spending, where the rich-poor gap grows seemingly without end, and the very people who virtually destroyed the world economy wallow in greater rewards than ever, all while the public infrastructure (both figuratively and literally) crumbles and the ruling class is openly collaborating on a bipartisan, public-private basis even to cut Social Security benefits?

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/07/19/secrecy/index.html

[NotNow]

Re-read my last post.  They already have your money.  The Supreme Court has already said that you have no "right" to any SS benefit.  They can give you however much or little that they want to.  They had to dance all around "tax" and "insurance" to even get it past the Supreme Court in the thirties!   The Federal government has no business in our retirements.  If you want government run retirements (I don't), then States should run individual SS systems.  They will still steal you blind but not as bad as the Feds are doing.  And your source is wrong again.  The majority of the money is going to SS and Medicare:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png

[Cricket]

The thing about it is if you have worked all your life and now in retirement, then you do need Government in your business because that is where your contributions went, big or small. On the other hand if you are self-sufficient or still not able to see beyond your own horizon, you want Government to stay out. It's all about where you stand in this wide socio-economic land of ours and you can usually tell where some people here stand by their posts in this thread.

[finehoe]

...you can usually tell where everyone here stands by their posts in this thread.

Except, laughably, many of the posters on here think they're in the top 0.01% who actually control the wealth of this country when they rant about "taxes" and "redistribution" when in actuality they are lowly peasants just like the rest of us, destined to have their money siphoned away from them, not by "welfare queens" or "socialists" but by the plutocrats who own the government lock, stock, and barrel.

[buckethead]

I think there are few here who consider themselves as you describe.

Taxes? Who controls them, according to your last rant?

Redistribution? Who benefits? Is the Stimulus a form of wealth redistribution?

Aside from all the secret society plutoconspiracy, there are most certainly deadbeat welfare recipients, just as there are needy persons incapable of providing for their own means.

Where we differ is in desiring to hand those who "own and operate" the gubmint, ever increasing power and latitude.

Q: Is President Obama a member of the Plutocracy you describe?

A:

[finehoe]

The Plutocracy is not a conspiracy in the formal sense of a membership which gathers like the Bohemian Club or even an informal assemblage such as the Bilderberg Group. "Membership" is granted solely by great wealth and control of productive assets; political influence flows from that.
People who control, say, $100 million or more (via family ownership or managerial position) tend to meet one another socially or to do business, and while they jockey for advantage within a group like the rest of us, they form a small class of citizens possessing virtually unimpaired political influence.
Thus in describing a Plutocracy I am not positing a semi-formal conspiracy but simply a financial elite which controls some 2/3 of the productive wealth of the U.S. This is simply a statement of fact. Their collective self-interest is in maintaining the conceptual, legal and financial systems which enable their continued dominance of wealth and influence.
So, yes, we can coose to recognize this fact, or we can pretend that voting for the Democrats or the Republicans will change this.

[Timkin]

I like Judge Judy, but I think a contract for that kind of money is absolutely insane!

[Bostech]

Judge Judy?Try Sean Hannity who gets 100 million to spit crap on TV every night.

Americans are passive in general and also not very interested in pursuing justice and truth.
For example all the stories I have been telling regarding Middle East past 40 years,people are simply ignoring but very same people are now ripping off Americans.Some might call it karma but it is also lack of investigation on behalf of Americans.
Simillar to 9-11 which most people ignore and dont take serious,instead of investigating in details they simple take things as-is,whatver they have been told on TV and ignore any investigations.

Second problem is "two-party system" which blocks any real independent and democratic way for honest people to run country,instead both corrupted parties which ,most likely work for same boss, are misleading Americans with their "elections".
People are sick of both Republicans and Democrats yet they dont have any other choice,when elections come they end up picking one or lesser evil which leads you to nowhere.
They got monopoly on "democracy" and votes of Americans end up going to same corupted parties election after election...there is no real democracy.

[Cricket]

You sound like a real TV aficionado yourself. Judge Judy, Men in Black, Elmer Fudd. Who are these people? When do YOU find time to watch these characters? Hmmm!

[buckethead]

The Plutocracy is not a conspiracy in the formal sense of a membership which gathers like the Bohemian Club or even an informal assemblage such as the Bilderberg Group. "Membership" is granted solely by great wealth and control of productive assets; political influence flows from that.
People who control, say, $100 million or more (via family ownership or managerial position) tend to meet one another socially or to do business, and while they jockey for advantage within a group like the rest of us, they form a small class of citizens possessing virtually unimpaired political influence.
Thus in describing a Plutocracy I am not positing a semi-formal conspiracy but simply a financial elite which controls some 2/3 of the productive wealth of the U.S. This is simply a statement of fact. Their collective self-interest is in maintaining the conceptual, legal and financial systems which enable their continued dominance of wealth and influence.
So, yes, we can coose to recognize this fact, or we can pretend that voting for the Democrats or the Republicans will change this.

It almost sounds like we have the same opinion, finehoe. I tend to lean further right than you but I don't disagree with a single word of your latter post.

It will always be thus. This socio-economic system could collapse or be overthrown, but would soon be replaced with another. Every system involves people using what power (gubmint) they can wield for their own advantage and advancement.

You have likely seen me denounce communism and socialism. Neither system is evil and each could actually be workable, except for the human element. I'm not sure we have seen true examples of either.

This is why I believe governments should be as small as possible. Exactly how small or limited is difficult to define.

[BridgeTroll]

I agree.  The focus seems to be on the "financial elite".  Eliminating the "financial elite" has been tried in the good old USSR.  It was replaced with the "political elite" who then had control of the productive wealth of that country...

[BridgeTroll]

It was simply an example of an attempt to eliminate the financial elite... my point was that another elite group will simply replace it... there have been elite groups "controlling" things since the beginning of humanity... I suspect it is in our nature...

[north miami]

Luckily, Emperors end up naked

[buckethead]

The progressive tax system has eliminated tyranny, classism and elitism!

Well done my fellow Americans! We can sleep well tonight.

[Cricket]

I agree.  The focus seems to be on the "financial elite".  Eliminating the "financial elite" has been tried in the good old USSR.  It was replaced with the "political elite" who then had control of the productive wealth of that country...

Except in this country there is almost like a natural symbiosis (not a conspiracy) between the financial elite (big business) and elite politicians and the hell with the rest of us.