FL-9B to be named Interstate 795

[Ocklawaha]

Actually a few years ago a calculation was made that said all of the taxes paid by commercial vehicles would patch the potholes on the New York Thruway and PA Turnpike for a single year! 

I see that your relatively new, a belated welcome. Did you know I'm the resident Rail Planner having planned much of Colombia's Railroad System? YUP!  You sound connected too...?? 

By the way I double as the "old Hippie" "Class Clown" and "Sarcastic SOB" when needs be... 

OCKLAWAHA 

[CS Foltz]

It does not matter to me just what any road designator is..........that has nothing to do with it being built with my and your tax dollars! Glad to see we could help out the freight industry on trucking things here there and everywhere! Freight needs to be railed to a modal point and then trucked to where ever........not pulled by tractor the whole route long..............but thats just me! We need more concrete to expand for more bus's.....right after we do a few more studies to look at the problem!

[tufsu1]

I'm not a big fan of this road, but it is disingenuous to say it will only serve the trucking industry and developers...I'm betting that a significant % ofthe users will be Duval and St. Johns residents...and truck traffic will likely be no more than 15% of the total.

[Ocklawaha]

You and I are on the same page TU... I'm not a big fan, but CAN see some use for it. As for traffic, I'll bet it's well used by the St. Johns bunch. I live in WGV and I'll use it every time I'm headed for Jax Beach or Mayport NS. You might be right about the truck traffic at the start, but once they figure out that this will save time and diesel, (no matter how small) they'll flood this thing. Port traffic in and out will be using it too, ending a lot of the use on I-95 through downtown today.  When the City goes Commuter Rail, and rebuilds the JACKSONVILLE BELT RAILROAD "S" line, the remaining truck traffic through downtown, headed to Bowden, could be loaded in Springfield/Talleyrand and moved by rail.

Between the 795 taking the Blount Island Port Trafic, and the Jacksonville Belt Railroad taking the Talleyrand Port Traffic, we should see a remarkable reduction of heavy trucks through downtown on 95.

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

There are two things to consider when discussing new transportation infrastructure.  

1. Of course it will get some use as a short cut by drivers traveling to specific locations.  Even South Carolina's Southern Connector gets driven on by some people.  

2. Yet, none of this means that it is worth the investment or truly needed.  

Between the 795 taking the Blount Island Port Trafic, and the Jacksonville Belt Railroad taking the Talleyrand Port Traffic, we should see a remarkable reduction of heavy trucks through downtown on 95.

I don't see how this stub alone takes anything off of I-95, between I-295/9A (on the Southside) and the County Line (Southside).  All it is, is a super expensive way to eventually (phase II - the I-95 interchange - is still unfunded) divert some traffic around two I-95 interchanges.  Ohter than that, it will open thousands of acres of  undeveloped land to possible development.  

My wild guess is that this is the real motivation and purpose for the project.  While I'm opposed to "unsustainable" (note: I did not say all) sprawl, I do believe it would be more respectable if project backers stopped lying to citizens and just tell the truth from day one.

[CS Foltz]

lake I concur! It may well relieve some of the I95 traffic and there is no doubt that trucks will be using it but, as you point out (I have also for quite some time) it will be an artery for development plain and simple. It does not matter that some private concerns will pay for an interchange off of it, if the road was not put in, there would be no interchange! I don't think we need more roads, we need some sort of light rail system to really relieve congestion..........buts that just me! We need some people with vision and a possible plan to really get some relief from  unsustainable developement or sprawl!

[stjr]

... it will open thousands of undeveloped land to possible development. 

My wild guess is that this is the real motivation and purpose for the project.  While I'm opposed to "unsustainable" (note: I did not say all) sprawl, I do believe it would be more respectable if project backers stopped lying to citizens and just tell the truth from day one.

Hit the nail on the head, Lake.  This road is being built because developers cooked it up and got lucky to find the Fed's anxious to blow money on anything "shovel ready" that creates instant jobs.  Had we a mass transit plan ready to go, as we should have, maybe these same $$$ would have gone there.  Of course, FDOT and JTA don't want to see that so they sabotaged the outcome.

I think we need to not split JTA, but totally dissolve it, and replace it with a mass transit agency ONLY.  FDOT can worry about all our future roads.  JTA is just duplication.  And, all major local priorities in Duval County have been handled for now and we certainly don't need to two road building agencies making up projects to keep busy.

[tufsu1]

here's the rub folks....almost every transportatioon infrastructure project benefits developers in some way....for example, it has been noted on this site many times that rail transit leads to new investment (i.e., development)....now I agree it is likely more desirable development, but none of you seem to be complaining about this.

[stjr]

here's the rub folks....almost every transportatioon infrastructure project benefits developers in some way...

Some projects benefit developers ONLY and hurt the rest of the citizenry.  Other projects MAY benefit developers AND DO benefit the citizenry.  9B and the Outer Beltway only benefit developers and hurt most of the rest of us.  Get the difference? 

[thelakelander]

here's the rub folks....almost every transportatioon infrastructure project benefits developers in some way....for example, it has been noted on this site many times that rail transit leads to new investment (i.e., development)....now I agree it is likely more desirable development, but none of you seem to be complaining about this.

I have to agree with Stjr on this particular one.  I would like to see those backing projects like this to just be honest.  If it's being built for development purposes, go ahead, say it and sell it on that.  Selling the public these projects are being built for traffic congestion relief is disingenuous because we all know that's not true.  That's what separates the planning of these projects from the rail discussion.  No one is claiming that rail or roads will relieve vehicular traffic congestion.  Unless you're willing to prohibit development, there is no cure.  Instead, choice, an enhanced quality of life, affordability and economic development are being promoted on that end.

[brainstormer]

You won't find me complaining about transit inspired development because typically it is retrofitting or infill.  (watch the professor's video!)  9B will only create the destruction of more forests and wetlands and the development of more asphalt destinations.  How much money was spent on the new I95-295 interchange a few years ago?  We were told that would relieve congestion which it kind of did to a certain extent.  Now the same argument is being given for 9B.  The developers and FDOT will continue to use this same justification for every road project until will call them out on it.

[north miami]

here's the rub folks....almost every transportatioon infrastructure project benefits developers in some way...

Some projects benefit developers ONLY and hurt the rest of the citizenry.  Other projects MAY benefit developers AND DO benefit the citizenry.  9B and the Outer Beltway only benefit developers and hurt most of the rest of us.  Get the difference?  

I discovered the prelude to Nocatee years before that controversial development sprang forth,while reviewing MPO future roadway maps....a curious dotted line traversing lands that we had gone to bat to protect against the SE Landfill proposal.
Didn't know any details of Nocatee at the time,but the hint was there.

At one time the St.Johns Water management District Recreational Advisory Committee meetings were held at a particular Planner & Consultant office facility.The map images on display were telling.Advisory Committee members were so distraught with the implications of holding meetings at such a venue that the District agreed to hold the meetings elsewhere.

[tufsu1]

I have to agree with Stjr on this particular one.  I would like to see those backing projects like this to just be honest.  If it's being built for development purposes, go ahead, say it and sell it on that.  Selling the public these projects are being built for traffic congestion relief is disingenuous because we all know that's not true.  That's what separates the planning of these projects from the rail discussion.  No one is claiming that rail or roads will relieve vehicular traffic congestion.  Unless you're willing to prohibit development, there is no cure.  Instead, choice, an enhanced quality of life, affordability and economic development are being promoted on that end.

while we all know "we can't build our way out of congestion" the truth is that new and widened roads (including 9B) do alleviate congestion in the short-term....and sadly, there are many folks who will ask how many cars will be taken off the road w/ transit...so the congestion relief question will be asked.

[buckethead]

I have to agree with Stjr on this particular one.  I would like to see those backing projects like this to just be honest.  If it's being built for development purposes, go ahead, say it and sell it on that.  Selling the public these projects are being built for traffic congestion relief is disingenuous because we all know that's not true.  That's what separates the planning of these projects from the rail discussion.  No one is claiming that rail or roads will relieve vehicular traffic congestion.  Unless you're willing to prohibit development, there is no cure.  Instead, choice, an enhanced quality of life, affordability and economic development are being promoted on that end.

while we all know "we can't build our way out of congestion" the truth is that new and widened roads (including 9B) do alleviate congestion in the short-term....and sadly, there are many folks who will ask how many cars will be taken off the road w/ transit...so the congestion relief question will be asked.

Fixed rail transit absolutely eliminates congestion.

For all who use it.

[thelakelander]

I have to agree with Stjr on this particular one.  I would like to see those backing projects like this to just be honest.  If it's being built for development purposes, go ahead, say it and sell it on that.  Selling the public these projects are being built for traffic congestion relief is disingenuous because we all know that's not true.  That's what separates the planning of these projects from the rail discussion.  No one is claiming that rail or roads will relieve vehicular traffic congestion.  Unless you're willing to prohibit development, there is no cure.  Instead, choice, an enhanced quality of life, affordability and economic development are being promoted on that end.

while we all know "we can't build our way out of congestion" the truth is that new and widened roads (including 9B) do alleviate congestion in the short-term....and sadly, there are many folks who will ask how many cars will be taken off the road w/ transit...so the congestion relief question will be asked.

The truth is we can't afford (or even attempt to justify) to continue to spend hundreds of millions on short term solutions that make long term problems significantly worse.  At some point, the cycle has to end.  So the question becomes, how do we get there?