US Taking a Backseat to China on High Speed Rail

[FayeforCure]

While people on this board are still bickering about our first high speed line, the 84-mile Tampa-Orlando line scheduled to be built by 2014, China plans to finish 5,000 miles of high speed railways by 2012 at speeds of 215mph, faster than the fastest Japanese bullet trains, which go up to 185mph.

But of course, we spend trillions in the bottomless pit of Iraq and Afghanistan.

So much for our history of innovation!

February 13, 2010

China Sees Growth Engine in a Web of Fast Trains
By KEITH BRADSHER

WUHAN, China â€" The world’s largest human migration â€" the annual crush of Chinese traveling home to celebrate the Lunar New Year, which is this Sunday â€" is going a little faster this time thanks to a new high-speed rail line.

The Chinese bullet train, which has the world’s fastest average speed, connects Guangzhou, the southern coastal manufacturing center, to Wuhan, deep in the interior. In a little more than three hours, it travels 664 miles, comparable to the distance from Boston to southern Virginia. That is less time than Amtrak’s fastest train, the Acela, takes to go from Boston just to New York.

Even more impressive, the Guangzhou-to-Wuhan train is just one of 42 high-speed lines recently opened or set to open by 2012 in China. By comparison, the United States hopes to build its first high-speed rail line by 2014, an 84-mile route linking Tampa and Orlando, Fla.

Speaking at that site last month, President Obama warned that the United States was falling behind Asia and Europe in high-speed rail construction and other clean energy industries. “Other countries aren’t waiting,” he said. “They want those jobs. China wants those jobs. Germany wants those jobs. They are going after them hard, making the investments required.”

Indeed, the web of superfast trains promises to make China even more economically competitive, connecting this vast country â€" roughly the same size as the United States â€" as never before, much as the building of the Interstate highway system increased productivity and reduced costs in America a half-century ago.

As China upgrades and expands its rail system, it creates the economies of large-scale production for another big export industry. “The sheer volume of equipment that they will require, and the technology that will have to be developed, will simply catapult them into a leadership position,” said Stephen Gardner, Amtrak’s vice president for policy and development.

More: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/13/business/global/13rail.html

[FayeforCure]

Part of the problem here, is that instead of building something right, we do it half assed in a society that runs on public consensus. 

Everything we do in the US is fragmented and piece-meal, whether it's education, healthcare or anything else.

The Florida line will have a max speed of just 168mph. though it will only be able to get to that speed on a should stretch, reducing the line's average speed..........it will still be higher than cars. Besides what a vision!

People will believe in it when they see it!

[BridgeTroll]

I agree Faye... if only we had a government like China's... The government decides and the people acquiesce... then we too could have a great high speed rail system.

[Ocklawaha]

"It's going to be a rough ride from here..."


Same old crap, different day. We could certainly blow China's railroad off the map if we wanted it bad enough. Our major problem today is we have a bus load of giddy school girl cheerleaders shouting huzzah for HSR, while our major newspapers tell us how many Congressional Districts the lines will serve. There is a seriousness in planning for the future that is sorely lacking, and in this Florida is perhaps the most guilty. "People will believe in it when they see it!," this is candy shop thinking, the same thing that happened when Daddy pulled into the driveway with the brand new 1958 model Edsel. It turned out there was nothing wrong with the automobile, but the Edsel went down in history as, "The wrong car, for the wrong time!"

Nobody is saying don't build High Speed Rail, what we are saying is THINK before you build. Network, feed it, build it where it will shine, matrix, make it a component and not THE component, pay attention to what we have and have had, reuse, innovate, overcome.

OCKLAWAHA

[tufsu1]

Considering that youve been backing the mislabelled boondoggle of slightly higher speed rail in tampa(most cars are still faster), whats your point, Faye?

Let's not misrepresent...the train will be able to hit 168 mph, the express train will average 115mph, and the "local" train will average 84mph.

For comparison, the speed limit on I-4 is no more than 70mph...and the area in Tampa and on the Beachline in Orlando is 55mph....and while many people drive faster than speed limit, folks also get caught in congestion (especially during rush hours).

[tufsu1]

Using your theory, which seems to be that the train could potentially go that fast, then you should be willing to purchase a pound of coal from me at the same price as a pound of diamonds.

I'm not using potential..I'm basing it on preliminary engineering calculations made as part of the most recent study....what are you using?

[Ocklawaha]

It's kind of tough to have a hand in designing or planning something, and going home with a check, then writing in a public forum how bad it sucks without making one feel some remorse.

70 - 90 - or even 10 miles of 168 MPH, whatever it just:

isn't going to matter anyway when your train will not get you into a single town except for Tampa.

isn't going to matter anyway when your route is so round about that a one legged man on a pogo stick could beat you from the ultimate end point to end point (IE:Miami).

isn't going to matter anyway when you have to spend an hour getting to an AIRPORT, to catch a train, to save you 45 minutes.

isn't going to matter anyway when you realize the taxi transfer from Orlando HSR to Amtrak, for a ticket to points north, will cost you more then the Amtrak fare from Tampa to Orlando.

isn't going to matter anyway with a one way fare of around $30 dollars, plus a $20 dollar cab fare in Orlando, plus a $75 dollar car rental fee in Tampa. For a total of $125.oo ONE-WAY

isn't going to matter anyway when that businessman figures out a trip from the  Embassy Suites Hotel, Orlando-North, to the  Hyatt Regency, Downtown Tampa, takes 1 hour and 39 minutes by car at the posted speed. The same trip at 168 mph + stops according to FDOT is 64 minutes on HSR, making the auto 35 minutes slower.

HOWEVER

Add 31 minutes for the drive from the Embassy Suites Hotel, Orlando North, to the Orlando International Airport, plus 30 minutes for parking, ticketing, check in at the HSR terminal in the airport.

THEN

Go back and add in the 64 minute "BULLET TRAIN RIDE"
toss in 30 minutes for terminal time in Tampa and securing a car rental or mass transit connection to the Hyatt Regency - Downtown Tampa.

toss in another 2 minutes travel time train station to hotel at posted speed limits

AND

Your "BULLET TRAIN" ride becomes....

are you ready for this?

Waiting?

Hurry?

It is a Bullet you know?

Faster?

Faster?

Faster?

2 hours and 37 minutes for a trip that takes 1 hour and 39 minutes by automobile!

I'm impressed!

[CS Foltz]

Once again Ock...........dead nuts on the money! tufsu can quote all of the "preliminary engineering calculations" that he wants to............according to the known laws of aerodynamics the bumblebee can not fly, but the bumblebee does not know this and fly's anyway! I am applying this same "Engineering Principle" to our so-called HSR............it ain't what it ain't!

[tufsu1]

It's kind of tough to have a hand in designing or planning something, and going home with a check, then writing in a public forum how bad it sucks without making one feel some remorse.

Ock...the check I took home was back in 2001 and 2002...it has long ago been spent!

As you know, I'm not a huge fan of Florida's HSR plan and think we could do much more upgrading existing rail for $2 Billion.

But I can't sit idle while uninformed folks make false statements.