Automotive Uses and the Overlay - long version!

[strider]

Zoo, I did see that several buildings were recommended to go in the latest park “vision“,  but I think it is the Urban Core Vision Plan rather than the actual Hogan Creek study.  I’m sure that was what people were remembering as I think it was shown most recently.

I also do remember it being said that it was questionable to save the balustrades. Good to hear that has either changed or was incorrectly reported. As you are close to this project, perhaps you could give a complete update on another thread. It does sound like the concpets have changed somewhat as the project evolves.

FSU813 and Fieldafm, your comments about Cassat Ave. illustrates very well that the real issues with Automotive uses were the quantity and the appearance rather than the actual use.  Even a car dealership could be appropriate in Historic Springfield of done in a historic manor.

[thelakelander]

Here is an example in downtown Orlando.

[stjr]

Above MIAMI picture before Jax thanks to a Florida Porsche Owners Forum ( http://www.356registry.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8878 ) along with a little more history below:

Brundage moved the operations to Jacksonville, Florida in 1955. He was one of 6 distributors licensed to import Porsche in 1957 and was the distributor for 7 southern states. Other well known distributors of this time were Max Hoffman (NY) & Competition Motors (LA). In 1959 Brundage Motors changed their name to Brumos Porsche. “Brumos” was the company’s international cable address and an abbreviation for Brundage Motors on their telex receipts. In 1962 Brundage opened his first Porsche showroom at 5th & Main St. in downtown Jacksonville. After Hubert Brundage was tragically killed in 1965 while riding his motorcycle, Peter Gregg acquired the dealership. In 1968 Hurley Haywood joined Brumos and the tradition of racing excellence continued. Since that time, Brumos has become one of the most successful Porsche race teams in history. Brumos has raced several generations of Porsche’s, including the 356, 911, 914, 935, 962, 917, Porsche Riley & Porsche Fabcar. The most recent win for Brumos Racing was the 2009 Rolex 24hours of Daytona again proving that Brumos Porsche is one of the most successful Porsche race teams in history. (The above information is believed to be accurate and correct based on my research through multiple sources. However, as there is no definitive or official written history, this paragraph could contain discrepancies)
--------
Drive 'Em!

Mark Pribanic
1958 Coupe
Neptune Beach, Florida
Registry# 13617
Florida Owners Group - Trustee/Webmeister
www.356FOG.com

[sheclown]

In 1962 Brundage opened his first Porsche showroom at 5th & Main St. in downtown Jacksonville. After Hubert Brundage was tragically killed in 1965 while riding his motorcycle, Peter Gregg acquired the dealership. In 1968 Hurley Haywood joined Brumos and the tradition of racing excellence continued. Since that time, Brumos has become one of the most successful Porsche race teams in history. Brumos has raced several generations of Porsche’s, including the 356, 911, 914, 935, 962, 917, Porsche Riley & Porsche Fabcar. The most recent win for Brumos Racing was the 2009 Rolex 24hours of Daytona again proving that Brumos Porsche is one of the most successful Porsche race teams in history.

Good things come from investing in Springfield!

Thanks stjr!

[stjr]

Here is another photo related to Brundage and Porsche:


NardiWiteside - last time it was in Brundage hands. Modified back (cut down to reduce drag).
Brumo's Public Relations PHOTO, 961/678, Box 3095, Jacksonville 6, FLA.

The Nardi, as it is generally called, is the result of a commission to Enrico Nardi in Italy by Hubert Brundage   for a Formula Junior using standard VW parts.   A new 1958 113 VW beetle was sent to Torino by Mr. B for Nardi to disassemble and use engine, transmission, suspension,etc. for the single seat race car. This car was the beginning of the class that we still today recognize as "Formula Vee".

http://www.formulavee.us/history/the_nardi.htm

[sheclown]

Say, maybe there are some parts still floating around in that building on 5th and Main.

This is wonderful to know.  There were really cool World Class race car drivers hanging around the streets of Springfield -- in our not-so-distant past.

[stjr]

From Florida State Archives, auto show in Jax featuring Brundage Motors (looks like the Armory Building to me):

Sign in the middle of the image reads, "Brundage Motors". The car under the VW logo is a Karmann Ghia.

[stjr]

Here are some more photos from the Florida State Archives under search for "Auto Jacksonville" that may relate to Downtown or Springfield based on the types of buildings.  Anyone recognize any of them?

[Dan B]

Here are some more photos from the Florida State Archives under search for "Auto Jacksonville" that may relate to Downtown or Springfield based on the types of buildings.  Anyone recognize any of them?

I know this one! This looks different today, but it is at 6th and main, and is the home of AA Auto and Mike and Waffas!

[thelakelander]

^Wow, that's a big change.

[Debbie Thompson]

That was unnecessary, Zoo. I don't try to convince people of falsehoods. You just said the plan had been altered, and the original plan is all I've seen at SPAR meetings. Has the community been presented the most current concept and I missed it? I don't think I've missed a SPAR member's meeting since the original concept was introduced to the community.

On the plan I saw at the SPAR meeting to introduce the concept, there was green space on the corner of Main and Orange. I wasn't sure, so I asked (edit to clarify) a member of the design firm. (end edit.)  At the vision meeting at the Karpelis, we were told (edit to clarify) by the design firm (end edit) it would be too expensive to replicate the original balustrades.

I'm glad to hear the voices of the community were heard when we protested the importance of both the historic Klutho building and the historic balustrades at the meetings.

It would be nice to see the most current design at the April SPAR member's meeting. Can you arrange it?

[sheclown]

In fact, it would probably be a good idea to take this Hogans Creek design process online, so that there are constant updates and people can see the process and make input.

That is a great idea.

[zoo]

At this stage of the project, it is not likely any further research/planning for it will occur online -- it has already mostly occurred over the course of this past year, and the master plan is nearing its completion.

The planning included several community interviews and small-scale focus groups in late Spring '09, an online survey by PPS, and two larger input sessions each for residents and other stakeholders (in Jul and Sep, if I recall correctly). Following this, the community held an additional meeting on Oct 29 at which first concepts were presented and feedback received. All three of the larger community input meetings (dates, times, locations) were announced and publicized on this and other urban blogs/pages and in SPAR's weekly update emails.

This is the City's project, and anytime someone has reached out to me to be involved in providing input/ideas, I have notified them of the next input session or suggested they get in touch with the Parks & Rec Dept representative to convey their thoughts. This is where any request to put online or not should also be directed.

On a separate note regarding project-based online information collection/participation, I agree this is a good idea. However, I would also warn that one of the fallacies of the online input process is that participants, while being listened to, often get the idea they will see their input included in the final plan. Anyone who has participated in the online surveys by JTA and the COJ's past year budget process knows that is not always the case (or Springfield would have more transportation and budget attention than we currently do).

As has been shown on these forums many times over, there are so many differing opinions in Springfield alone (and we have to include Downtown and the larger region in the Hogans Creek Parks project, too), there will always be at least 2 sides and someone will not get their idea implemented -- in every case, someone will "lose."

Truth:

Current modified concepts show the Claude Nolan/EHT building as it currently exists. Concepts also show the restoration of Klutho and Imeson's pond at 4th & Pearl, and allow for the restoration of existing balustrades that can be saved (per a separately consulted expert whose family was apparently involved in the original balustrade casting).

The way this plan is being developed is consistent with Springfield's status as a National Historic District, AND with attempting to solve the many other problems (environmental, stormwater to name two) that exist in the system today.

Debbie, I apologize if it seemed I believed you to be attempting to persuade others using false information. While your earlier statement is now incorrect due to the community's feedback (including yours), my "Don't let anyone convince you otherwise" comment was more in response to this false statement:

Quote
This conceptual plan seems to leave the historic components of the neighborhood out of the equation.

[zoo]

Btw, that change at Mike's Auto at 6th & Main is significant. I rather like the way the old "storefront" came up to the street edge, subtly concealing the autos parked out front awaiting service. I'd guess this treatment also made visibility better coming from the south. Anyone showed this to Mike?

[Lunican]

Here is the original plan that was posted here back in November.

http://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2009-nov-hogans-creek-park-master-plan

I think this is the graphic Debbie Thompson was referring to: