Why France sucks

[Ocklawaha]

F**k the French! I don't live there and would not if it was the last place on Earth!

Did that when I thumbed my way into New Orleans, in 1972!

OCKLAWAHA

[Bostech]

On my first trip to France a young parisian couple invited me to stay in their home. I regret not taking them up on that but had a really great time regarless.  I made a concieous decision to not let the horror stories of others bias my experience and it paid off even before I got off the plane.

Lucky you,during a night they could have sneak into your room and bite you with their socialist fangs.

[reednavy]

Lucky you,during a night they could have sneak into your room and bite you with their socialist fangs.

STFU already, please.

[BridgeTroll]

This...

Anyway,some of points brought in article points to good health care when women can stay home for up to year and raise kids.

And this...

"This is why France continues to be among the OECD countries whose tax rate is the highest. Taxes account for 45% of GDP against 37% on average in OECD countries. The overall rate of social security and tax on the average wage in 2005 was 71.3% of gross salary, the highest of the OECD. The levels of social security contributions are particularly high (16.3% of revenue against 9.4% in average for OECD). The social security budgets are larger than the budget of the national government. The budgets of both the national government and of social security organizations run deficits."   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_France

Belong on the same post...

[jandar]

Sure, we can be like France. We can give most of our money to the government for them to decide what services we should have. After all, we must be too dumb here in the US, God forbid we make our own decisions about our money.

You would not want to own/run a business there either.
Good luck trying to fire someone after a few years. You can basically take a 3 year sabatical leave and then demand your job back. Even if they hired someone else to replace you, they would need to hire you back as well, so two people doing the same job everywhere.

http://blog.cocagne.com/how-to-fire-in-france.htm

Four months later it was clear that that employee would not ever come back to work for me. To the doctors, it wasn’t clear whether he would ever work again in front of a computer screen. After quickly leafing through the 17,000 pages of the French Code du Travail (Work Laws), I realized that I would have to officially “fire” him, or else, at any point in the next 40 years, he could reappear, ask for his job back and I would have no choice but to accommodate.

This may seem like a picky detail for those of you who have never been there, but one hears the stories of employees who come back after 12-month’s sick-leave on a beach in Thailand and WANT THEIR JOB BACK. In fact, pages 14,166-14,480 of The Code clearly explain all the various combinations and permutations in play here, but to simplify, you (the Boss) either give him his old job back or you give him your kid’s college fund and half the office furniture. Even more interesting, if in the months gone by, you went and hired Someone Else to do the job, you are obliged to maintain both employees, even if there is only one job opening. One is expected to create jobs, not wealth.

In France, you don’t just say, “Sorry Mate, you’re fired.” There were long consultations with my accountant, my lawyer, and the local Chamber of Commerce (who have many experts on payroll who have never hired or fired anyone in their long, illustrious career of explaining to people like me how to do it), and only after there was consensus on how to go about it, did I feel comfortable starting The Firing Process. This is a multi-step task, even for a very, very small business with 1 or 2 employees (like I was).

Step 1: Carefully choose the nominal reason for firing. Mine was obvious: it was for economic reasons. The Internet Bubble had burst and things were going downhill fast.
Step 2: Send a certified letter to the employee inviting him to a “Firing Interview”. He must receive this letter no less than 5 days, no more that 10 days, before the date of interview. The post office is on strike? See pages 16,121-147 of The Code for supplemental steps that you must take. Briefly, you start over.
Step 3: The Firing Interview. The employee has the right to be accompanied by a representative of The Union. You, the Boss, must be alone.

Why? (Really dumb question!)
The employee is an exploited member of the slaving underclass. He needs professional, trained counsel to protect him from…

Me, the Boss, dirty bourgeois pig who eats babies for breakfast.

Step 3bis: I read from a prepared script. “Sorry, my friend, thing’s are going badly, revenues down 45%, profits even more, I am obliged to work as a baby-sitter on weekends to make ends meet, etcetc”. Employee looks at Union man, who looks around, sees that there is no good office furniture to be had, says to me, “OK, just give him the Retraining Agreement” and I say “Huh?” and he says, “That’s OK, I guess, let’s go”, and they do. Firing Interview over.

Step 4: I call my lawyer frantically, asking, “What’s a Retraining Agreement?”

She says, “Merde! Did we forget the Retraining Agreement?”

“Yes”.

“Hmm”. And then, “Better start all over. Re-invite him to a Firing Interview. Order a Retraining Agreement form from the Retraining Administration. That way, you’re covered if he decides to attack you for faulty firing procedure”.

Step 5: I send off another certified letter fixing a date for Firing Interview 2. I order a Retraining Agreement from the correct Administration. This could only be done through the Minitel, that interesting bit of 1970’s technology that the French telephone monopoly imposed on the French people until the floodgates of the Internet opened too wide, ie, about 5 years after every other developed countries embraced the Internet. With all due credit to French bureaucracy, the document, all 26 pages of it, arrived rapidly.

Its instructions were emblematic of the french approach to supporting business and businesspersonnes: “Pages 3,6, 19 are to be given to the fired employee to be returned to us by him within 30 days of the firing interview. Pages 11-15 are to be kept for your records for 7 years. Pages 1,2,4,6,10, and 22 must be signed by you and returned to us in the enclosed envelope #1 within 3 days. Pages 5,7,8,9 are to be completed and signed by you AND the fired employee and returned to the tax services in the enclosed envelope #2 before the end of the present quarter.”

Step 6: Another firing interview. A different union man accompanies my employee. I repeat the litany of woe. Everyone nods heads thoughtfully. I pass over the Retraining Agreement (well, pages 5,7,8,9, anyway). They are signed and enveloped. I give a severance check equal to what I paid myself for the 24 previous months to the employee.

He looks at me thoughtfully, as though to say, “If you hadn’t saved my life, I probably would have gone for the deed to your house, too.”

I smile, realizing that the reason most small businesses in France fail quickly is because the alternative would be to succeed, and success might mean hiring. Few people who hire once in France, hire twice.

[jandar]

Then again, we have Michigan.
You are forced into a union regardless of your choice, and the courts basically say tough shit.

http://www.uppermichiganssource.com/news/story.aspx?id=410615

The union is forced upon you, and they take a percentage of state subsidies that should be going to the daycare for union dues. Heaven forbid you make your own choice in life.

Screw freedom!

[Bostech]

Yes it is pure evil to have dedicated and reliable health care insurance,schooling system,right to take vacation up to a month and not lose job because you took vacation or have been sick.

France rules are more like something you would refer to civilized country,while rules in USA are more like in a jungle.

Lifestyle in France is good for middle class and poor.
Lifestyle in USA is good for rich and super rich.

Which one is you?

[BridgeTroll]

really Bos?  You think you are poor NOW?  Are you ready to cough up...

The overall rate of social security and tax on the average wage in 2005 was 71.3% of gross salary, the highest of the OECD.

I do love the cuisine tho...

[Bostech]

A jungle that took you while the rest of the men of Bosnia (who stayed to fight) were sent to concentration camps.

People who fought never went to camps.Only civilians were taken there,defenseless people.
Defenseless because someone someone decided they dont have right to defend themselves.
Wait that was UN under US/EU imposed sanctions.
Thanx for helping.

Like it or not,rules in USA are rules of jungle.Bigger and stronger succeeds while weaker disappear.
System that works for successful,for very few.If you are Richard Branson,Donald Trump or Kim Kardashian its great system,much better then France.

But if you are middle class,guess what...you get more in France then in USA.

Which one is you?Which one would you prefer?

Would you like to get kicked out of hospital day after giving birth or getting time up to a year to raise a child in France?
Would you like to have guaranteed health care insurance or try not to get sick so you dont get denied insurance for being sick?
Would you rather have vacation time up to a month in peace or quick 7 day i am thinking about my job vacation?

Is that evil to have?

[Shwaz]

You can spin it with any crazy conspiracy theory you want.... but while your country went to shit the USA was there for you.

[Bostech]

Lol,nobody was there for me.
My hometown is still run by BAD GUYS.
Ethnic cleansing was LEGALIZED by both US and France.

Thanx for helping.

Now back to topic,do you think having these "perks" is evil?
Would you like to have one month vacation time?
I would.
Then again I am selfish,I dont think how will hurt all the rich people.

[Shwaz]

But who's country is a jungle again?

[BridgeTroll]

Now back to topic,do you think having these "perks" is evil?
Would you like to have one month vacation time?
I would.

Nope... those are great perks.  I just do not want the government to confiscate 75% of my gross to provide them to me and those who do not earn them.  Simple.

[Bostech]

Greece?

[JagFan07]

Why don't we get a French opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/v/Z74Akf1WUbU