JSO and (alleged) prostitution

[heights unknown]

My goodness gracious and "my word!"

"HU"

[cindi]

Don't misunderstand.  I support a cleanup.  I just think, like the homeless, there are a lot of legal technicalities that make this a tough thing to accomplish.

In my response above, I was also reacting to the apparent premise being put forth that the cop should have been arresting this person and that their failure to do so meant the cop was rogue.  I went back and looked at the video in stop action and it looks like this person (whatever they may be) had a thong.  I am thinking that this is not grounds for pressing charges given these are on display at the beach and, thus, the cop was not at fault for not making an arrest.

I guess we could make a Supreme Court case out of this with hundreds of thousands of City/taxpayer dollars but, you know, Jax tried that once in the early 70's with a vagrancy law that the U.S. Supremes through out in a landmark decision, making it next to impossible for anyone in the country to arrest you for just hanging around.  I think Jax lost its appetite for carrying the flag for the whole U.S. in these issues after that.

My guess is the best way to reduce prostitution is to either legalize it, tax it, and regulate it, or to effectively expose the johns.  I suspect even the latter would be eventually circumvented.  At least, with the former, we could more easily arrest people for "practicing without a license", improve public health. reduce enforcement costs, and improve City revenues.  With our cracker jack zoning laws and enforcement of them (sarcasm hat on, folks), we could push them into that part of town with the most ineffective representation at City Hall! 

Leglaized prostitution wouldn't hurt our convention business either  !  Come to think about it (no pun intended!), we could use this industry to finance our new convention center and then relocate our intermodal terminal properly at Prime Osborne.

Wow, all the City's problems solved at once.

trust me, thong or not, good money says he had part of his johnson exposed, if joe tax payer were to walk into the shell station sporting just the "thong" anywhere else in this town there would have been something done.  i would not classify the cop as "rogue", just the typical lazy officer that can't be bothered.  don't get me wrong, we have a few in our zone that are solid - however, there a more than a few that just plain can't be bothered.  as for the comparison of homeless to whores - apples and volkswagons.  the whores are not "vagrants", they are a menace to our neighborhood - the good news is, the gomers that come here to get their freak on and get the gift that keeps on giving (HIV and hep c are equal opportunity killers - and all the suburbian money can't fix that crap) actually live in the nice burbs. we find that those that have no problem with these whores littering our streets are the ones that arent being kept up at night by them howling like a cat getting got, and the drunk gomers that take out our light poles and porches.
there are good arguments for legalizing prostitution - but as of yet, again, we are in jacksonville and it is still very illegal.  but like you said - they have obviously been pushed to the area with the crappiest enforcement and representation. 

[Ocklawaha]

DOUBLE POSTED TO TWO THREADS ON THE SAME BASIC SUBJECT...

I would submit to all of you that we are going about this whole prostitution problem from the wrong direction. Chase it away, beat the shit out of it, flood lite it, air horn it, water cannon it, taze it, mace it, photograph it, harass it, WHATEVER... All you are doing is moving the problem around from one street to the next. In the process your own exposure to the situation causes undo stress and fatigue, perhaps even major depression. Violence can lead to guilt, sleepless nights, suicide, or imprisonment. Not a single one of these "solutions" has a lasting effect, except to deepen the gulf of understanding or empathy, and to potentially create some very dangerous enemy's.

Some 98.7% of all females in prostitution and probably a like percentage for males in prostitution, are survivors of horrid early childhood, childhood, teen, sexual abuse. As rape is never about love, and always about power or control, imagine the demented mind of one who would molest his or her own child, or that of a friend or loved one. So on top of rape, control and violence, you add cruelty, torture, maiming, and every other type of pain physical or mental known to man. The death of innocence and the loss of trust in any authority, plays right into the perpetrator's hands. One single policeman, real or fabricated, doubtlessly in high demand among the depraved, who is willing to talk or make a video, or in some other way "back up" the perpetrator's threats, can shut down city, state, church, law enforcement, social services as avenues of escape for a lifetime. It doesn't take much to convince a terrorized 10 year old that if they tell the dirty little secret to anyone, mommy and daddy will die.  Want to REALLY seal their lips or block them from ever trying to get away? Simply torture the child's pet, or kill it in the child's presence. From that point on the victim is helpless and without hope, the mind kicking into survival mode is willing to overlook all sins. Toss in a few pills or a few grams of crack or smack, and the abuser literally "owns" the child for life. Another child enters the sex trade, or the flesh trafficking market.

The only way to effectively fight it is by making a long term commitment to create hope, support, and avenues of safe escape without religious or society restrictions. The week spent holding a young head above the toilet while the withdrawal is wracking the body. The weeks of nights of cold sweats, chills, and the feeling of 10,000 ants crawling just under ones skin. The nail biting (chewing the nails OFF completely), hair pulling, cursing, hate, rage, anger, and inner explosions all have to be handled with one method, extreme, patient LOVE. *see note below

Stephen, do we still have access to the film project short of the young girl who finds her mother at the bar? If so can you post it here??  

If y'all want to really get after the problem, we can start by plugging in a local service group with one of the national outreach missions to street prostitutes, call girls and guys. I would suggest we work up our own localized version, and if we posted a call for help in this city, I bet 100 professional's and lay volunteers would answer it immediately. If there is one thing this city has shown in the past, it is our ability to forget almost anything and join hands in compassion... and this needs our compassion.

Check out:

http://www.hookersforjesus.net/  Which uses ex-hookers and sex workers to reach out on the streets.

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/services.html  Dignity House, a long term live in center.

http://www.prostitutionrecovery.org/  A complete Foundation dedicated to recovery.

http://www.hollywoodfl.org/city_clerks/pdf/0407_22.pdf  City of Hollywood Fl. Funding Help Center.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4153
                                               A national center of missing chidren education program offered in Georgia

http://www.justicecoalition.org/newspaper/September2007/VAsept~11.pdf  Justice Coalition Victim Advocate


OCKLAWAHA
*note: Not that I've ever done any of this withdrawal stuff, but I've read the books, seen the videos, etc...

[movedsouth]

As a Hamsterdam resident, let me clarify and comment on a few things. First of all, I concur with Cindi's statements. In addition, I don't think it would be helpful to make it more of a "zoo" here. The only way this is going to change is by persistent tedious actions by residents and JSO, which will probably take a few years.

I have been critical of JSO in the past and attended my share of SHADCO meetings. This issue should not turn into JSO bashing. JSO is a mixed bag, and it all depends on the particular officer. Some officers care and do the best job they can do, others just want to get the shift over with and once in a while you run into an officer who either doesn't get it or is just afraid. But we don't want JSO to arrest people just because they walk down the street in a dress. Now if they keep walking the same block, for hours, and keep getting picked up by various cars, its a different story. It is a fine line.

Which brings me to the real impact of the prostitution problem here. I could care less about the prostitution part of it. IMHO: make it legal and tax it. Until this happens,  there are many other problems associated with street prostitution: Illegal drug use to start. There is a group of 3-4 guys that supply the group of prostitutes with drugs and provide them with some protection. These are not your classical pimps, but take a similar role just because they do business in the same area at the same time.

You will get the turf wars and other associated activity. Not to mention the noise, petit theft, vandalism, an occasional robbery and so on. I don't even think that a lot of the vandalism we see is in retribution to god-lights and JSO calling. A lot is probably incidental collateral damage.

The prostitutes themselves are desperate and I don't think you can "shock" them away. They just don't care. I don't think they care about what anybody else things about them, or a day in jail isn't going to scare them either. We took the time to talk to them when possible to understand better why they do what they are doing. They make about $100 on a good night, which they spend on drugs. There are maybe 4 persistent once that you see each night, even during the colder nights. Over the summer, you can have as many as a dozen. Based on drug use and the other health hazards of the profession, they don't last very long. I think some of the "persistent" once are around for maybe 2 years now.

As Cindi explained, the prostitutes can be violent. We had one member of our "dog walk" group beaten up. Maze was used a couple times against us. In one case, a full soda can was thrown at us. A couple times they threatened with using firearms.

The customers are a mixed back. I would say that the majority is black males in beat up cars. I am not sure if they care about the prostitute being male/female as long as the BJ is cheap. Once in a while you see the white suburbanite in a minivan with baby seat and honor student sticker. We had some success by going after the customers. But I believe a lot of them pretty much don't care either.

What do I want to change?

A more consistent JSO response would be nice. I know they can't do "much". But each day the prostitutes don't make money because they sit in jail, they may have another motivation to move on. I have no illusions and don't think we can "stop" prostitution. But we should be able to limit its impact on our quality of live. Sometimes, when JSO just sits here an watches it happening, it feels like they are protecting the prostitutes, and in the past the prostitutes confirmed this to us that one reason they are here in Hamsterdam is that it is safer then for example Lincoln Court where some of them worked before. JSO should be more agressive against the Johns. Many of them drive cars with broken lights, they don't obey stop signals. Again: create enough of a bother for them to move on.

JSO marked cars are pretty ineffective. In my opinion, the main function of a marked car is to make a visible statement to the rest of us that JSO is present and doing something. But the marked car only works while it is right there. Unmarked / undercover operations may be more effective.

If you live in the area, stay up after midnight. Leaving your porch light on is not enough. Confront the various "creatures of the night". One of their assumptions is that we don't see or care about them.
Rule of thumb: keep some distance and a bright god-light shining at them.

We do have a few cameras in the area, and went out to aggressively take pictures of John's and prostitutes in a way that they knew we took pictures. I don't think aside from documenting the issue this is making a difference.

I will respond to PMs if i happen to log in, but I don't think this is a productive forum for a public discussion.

Ocklawaha: Just reading your post. Sorry, I disagree. It is sad, but I don't think there is much hope you can provide to these individuals. It may work for some drug users, and it may work for some prostitutes. But here was have drug addicated prostitutes who have long given up on themselves. My best hope is to move them to an area where they can do whatever they do without causing any harm to others. But feel free to try and let me know how it goes.

[AlexS]

DOUBLE POSTED TO TWO THREADS ON THE SAME BASIC SUBJECT...

I would submit to all of you that we are going about this whole prostitution problem from the wrong direction. Chase it away, beat the shit out of it, flood lite it, air horn it, water cannon it, taze it, mace it, photograph it, harass it, WHATEVER... All you are doing is moving the problem around from one street to the next. In the process your own exposure to the situation causes undo stress and fatigue, perhaps even major depression. Violence can lead to guilt, sleepless nights, suicide, or imprisonment. Not a single one of these "solutions" has a lasting effect, except to deepen the gulf of understanding or empathy, and to potentially create some very dangerous enemy's.

Some 98.7% of all females in prostitution and probably a like percentage for males in prostitution, are survivors of horrid early childhood, childhood, teen, sexual abuse. As rape is never about love, and always about power or control, imagine the demented mind of one who would molest his or her own child, or that of a friend or loved one. So on top of rape, control and violence, you add cruelty, torture, maiming, and every other type of pain physical or mental known to man. The death of innocence and the loss of trust in any authority, plays right into the perpetrator's hands. One single policeman, real or fabricated, doubtlessly in high demand among the depraved, who is willing to talk or make a video, or in some other way "back up" the perpetrator's threats, can shut down city, state, church, law enforcement, social services as avenues of escape for a lifetime. It doesn't take much to convince a terrorized 10 year old that if they tell the dirty little secret to anyone, mommy and daddy will die.  Want to REALLY seal their lips or block them from ever trying to get away? Simply torture the child's pet, or kill it in the child's presence. From that point on the victim is helpless and without hope, the mind kicking into survival mode is willing to overlook all sins. Toss in a few pills or a few grams of crack or smack, and the abuser literally "owns" the child for life. Another child enters the sex trade, or the flesh trafficking market.

The only way to effectively fight it is by making a long term commitment to create hope, support, and avenues of safe escape without religious or society restrictions. The week spent holding a young head above the toilet while the withdrawal is wracking the body. The weeks of nights of cold sweats, chills, and the feeling of 10,000 ants crawling just under ones skin. The nail biting (chewing the nails OFF completely), hair pulling, cursing, hate, rage, anger, and inner explosions all have to be handled with one method, extreme, patient LOVE. *see note below

Stephen, do we still have access to the film project short of the young girl who finds her mother at the bar? If so can you post it here??  

If y'all want to really get after the problem, we can start by plugging in a local service group with one of the national outreach missions to street prostitutes, call girls and guys. I would suggest we work up our own localized version, and if we posted a call for help in this city, I bet 100 professional's and lay volunteers would answer it immediately. If there is one thing this city has shown in the past, it is our ability to forget almost anything and join hands in compassion... and this needs our compassion.

Check out:

http://www.hookersforjesus.net/  Which uses ex-hookers and sex workers to reach out on the streets.

http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/services.html  Dignity House, a long term live in center.

http://www.prostitutionrecovery.org/  A complete Foundation dedicated to recovery.

http://www.hollywoodfl.org/city_clerks/pdf/0407_22.pdf  City of Hollywood Fl. Funding Help Center.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4153
                                               A national center of missing chidren education program offered in Georgia

http://www.justicecoalition.org/newspaper/September2007/VAsept~11.pdf  Justice Coalition Victim Advocate


OCKLAWAHA
*note: Not that I've ever done any of this withdrawal stuff, but I've read the books, seen the videos, etc...

Ocklawaha,
Was this your own write up or copy/pasted from somewhere ?
If you think you have a solution or any meaningful appoach to it, we should meet. PM me. I am open to any suggestions. I agree that perhaps JSO is not the best approach as recently pointed out at Shadco by the Asst. Chief.

[cindi]

it seems like people are under the impression that we are all uptight about the "prostitution" thing - i can't speak for everyone but frankly, i could care less what or who someone does - in their "home".  again, it's about choices just don't suck us into your corner of hell.  the jso part.  trust me, we have been down this road.  we understand the whole "hard to prove" blah blah, but come on now, when it is right there in front of you, really? talk about giving us the ole finger.

[AlexS]

Maybe to clear up a few things. I am all for legalizing prostitution. Health checks every 3 month, designated areas, paying taxes. But we are not there yet.
In the meantime we have what we have. Problem is the noise and vehicular traffic and drug trade associated with it. I personally feel for the prostitutes. Street prostitute is a rough life. As long as it impacts the quality of life here, I have a problem with it.

[peestandingup]

Whoever took this needs to brush up on their camera skills if they're trying to incriminate someone, because it shows nothing but a hooker flashing her business & the door of a police car.

You can't see an officer at all, let alone if they were looking at the hooker at the time she flashed. It lasted all of 1 second, so for all we know, the officer had his head down writing a citation or something.

I'm not saying they didn't see it. Hell, for all I know he told her to do it. But I'm just saying, that's the point. We don't know & the video shows nothing.

[Ocklawaha]

Ocklawaha,
Was this your own write up or copy/pasted from somewhere ?
If you think you have a solution or any meaningful appoach to it, we should meet. PM me. I am open to any suggestions. I agree that perhaps JSO is not the best approach as recently pointed out at Shadco by the Asst. Chief.

Graphic PHOTO link:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bQsuhPJduqQ/S3DhHe_l0qI/AAAAAAAAB20/luolphreC8Q/s800/hooker.jpg
This beautiful young woman made a choice to have this done? NOT! BTW, thank the "Sham Wow" guy for this one. Kudo's to the girl for biting off his wretched tongue.

I assure you it is 100% mine. Back in the day, as a hippie, I lived with several "professionally unemployed" women. It would have been paradise as they were all beautiful, but once inside their lives story's the tragedy became very apparent.  Married to a victim advocate, and having sat in on some of her classes on abuse (most of which either involved going deep into the McAlester State Prison, or watching bootleg porn videos some sick bastard made of the act) you get a completely different view. When they would tell me their stories, it would break my heart, I can't imagine the pain they have suffered... and it's almost EVERY ONE OF THEM! (national crime stats)

I also posted this in a thread about Springfield running off the "HO's" and as usual (I've posted this sort of stuff before) got jumped by a handful of community vigilantes ready to paint gun, taze or otherwise assault the guys and girls on the street.  Long before university OSU-OK, I've lived on the street, and know well how "fun" it is. These people wanting to embarrass, assault, herd, or otherwise harm these people, don't have a clue. I'm amazed at one of them, a former hippie turned cop, who callously passes it off as "a choice!"  In fact "A conscious choice to be _________ " seems the standard conservative answer. It's also DEAD WRONG. You can't make choices if your not equipped to make them, mentally or emotionally.

Yeah, let's talk. I'm in town all day tomorrow, and could drop by, or call, so we can get together. I'm posting this in the forum section because others may have the heart to join us.


OCKLAWAHA

[cindi]

I also posted this in a thread about Springfield running off the "HO's" and as usual (I've posted this sort of stuff before) got jumped by a handful of community vigilantes ready to paint gun, taze or otherwise assault the guys and girls on the street.  Long before university OSU-OK, I've lived on the street, and know well how "fun" it is. These people wanting to embarrass, assault, herd, or otherwise harm these people, don't have a clue. I'm amazed at one of them, a former hippie turned cop, who callously passes it off as "a choice!"  In fact "A conscious choice to be _________ " seems the standard conservative answer. It's also DEAD WRONG. You can't make choices if your not equipped to make them, mentally or emotionally.

Really?  multiple people in our neighborhood have been maced by these fine tax paying citizens, one was physically assaulted - and that's alright?  let me guess, the citizens had it coming because they asked them to not have loud obnoxious sex under their window at 2am.
can you please tell me what gives them or ANYONE for that matter the right to service a gomer in the alley outside my dining room window? what gives them the right to leave their used condoms on our sidewalks? what gives them the right to stand in front of our houses at 2am screaming at the top of their lungs (not because they are being beat) because they are just effing RUDE? what gives them the right to cop a squat in the middle of the street?  these are not homeless people, these are people that come to our neighborhood from govt subsidized apartments, leave a trail of filth and expect us to not be pissed?  and for your information. we have talked to several of them, some of them are actually in school etc so don't group them all in the poor poor pitful them group. 
again, i know at least a few of us, could care less if they give every gomer in jax service - do it in their yard, alley etc.
since you have no problem with them leaving their nice HIV condoms and piles of feces everywhere, how about you send me a prepaid envelope and i let you spread it over your yard so your kids can step around it every morning on their way to school. 
and until the law is changed, prostitution here is still illegal. 

[peestandingup]

I also posted this in a thread about Springfield running off the "HO's" and as usual (I've posted this sort of stuff before) got jumped by a handful of community vigilantes ready to paint gun, taze or otherwise assault the guys and girls on the street.  Long before university OSU-OK, I've lived on the street, and know well how "fun" it is. These people wanting to embarrass, assault, herd, or otherwise harm these people, don't have a clue. I'm amazed at one of them, a former hippie turned cop, who callously passes it off as "a choice!"  In fact "A conscious choice to be _________ " seems the standard conservative answer. It's also DEAD WRONG. You can't make choices if your not equipped to make them, mentally or emotionally.

Really?  multiple people in our neighborhood have been maced by these fine tax paying citizens, one was physically assaulted - and that's alright?  let me guess, the citizens had it coming because they asked them to not have loud obnoxious sex under their window at 2am.
can you please tell me what gives them or ANYONE for that matter the right to service a gomer in the alley outside my dining room window? what gives them the right to leave their used condoms on our sidewalks? what gives them the right to stand in front of our houses at 2am screaming at the top of their lungs (not because they are being beat) because they are just effing RUDE? what gives them the right to cop a squat in the middle of the street?  these are not homeless people, these are people that come to our neighborhood from govt subsidized apartments, leave a trail of filth and expect us to not be pissed?  and for your information. we have talked to several of them, some of them are actually in school etc so don't group them all in the poor poor pitful them group.  
again, i know at least a few of us, could care less if they give every gomer in jax service - do it in their yard, alley etc.
since you have no problem with them leaving their nice HIV condoms and piles of feces everywhere, how about you send me a prepaid envelope and i let you spread it over your yard so your kids can step around it every morning on their way to school.  
and until the law is changed, prostitution here is still illegal.  

I agree with you, but you're not allowed to be a vigilante either. A tranny doesnt have the right to go bangin in your bushes, but you also dont have the right to go all postal on the he-ho either. I seriously doubt the resident got maced by simply "asking" them to leave. C'mon now.

Im not taking up for them & I'd no doubt wanna do the same, but you cant complain if someone gets hurt when you're taking the law into your own hands. You have to be persistent & leave that stuff up to the proper authorities. Call the cops on them everyday if you have to. I know it sucks, but there isnt much more you can do beyond that.

Now having said that. You could try getting creative with it though without getting into any trouble yourselves. Get some high powered motion lights around your house, or an airhorn, a megaphone, a high piercing trip alarm, run a water hose up to the 2nd story of your home & hit em with that, etc. All sorts of fun ideas.

And there's always the dreaded paintball gun filled with those "Prankball" stink bombs. Unload that on someone from the bushes on a hot summer night. They wont be back. But of course, that might not be so legal.

[cindi]

Im not taking up for them & I'd no doubt wanna do the same, but you cant complain if someone gets hurt when you're taking the law into your own hands. You have to be persistent & leave that stuff up to the proper authorities. Call the cops on them everyday if you have to. I know it sucks, but there isnt much more you can do beyond that.

Now having said that. You could try getting creative with it though without getting into any trouble yourselves. Get some high powered motion lights around your house, or an airhorn, a megaphone, a high piercing trip alarm, run a water hose up to the 2nd story of your home & hit em with that, etc. All sorts of fun ideas.

And there's always the dreaded paintball gun filled with those "Prankball" stink bombs. Unload that on someone from the bushes on a hot summer night. They wont be back. But of course, that might not be so legal.

the person that got maced, he was video taping their activity, evidently i guess that is "vigilante", if you don't think that's how it happened, there is a youtube out there, feel free to look.
what we need is MORE people just like you to tell us to call the cops everyday.  really?  can you tell me what the number for 9-1-1 is?
as for the "creative" - our block owns more "god lights" than most small countries.  you could guide aircraft with our lighting systems, airhorn - been there, done that - neighbors really love the mix of nasty screaming whore followed by loud burst of air horn at 3am. 
the other ideas, paintgun and waterhose - fun, perhaps - but will get you in legal trouble.  and really, you think that doing that a couple of times and they wouldn't come back - you really don't know hampsterdam hehos at all. 
we have taken pictures (hence the mace), we have posted them on line, we have written down the gomer's tag numbers, also posted those on line.  we have had lonnnnggg conversations with them.  we have put down syrup on the corners that they stand on to prompt ants and discourage them from standing too long.  we have got the media involved, we have called the guardian angels, and had our vehicles vandalized. 
so, i think that maybe our next plan should be to collect all the feces, used HIV filled condoms, crack pipes and all the other "goodies" left behind and send gift boxes to all that think it's not so bad. 

[Karl_Pilkington]

I agree with you, but you're not allowed to be a vigilante either.
And there's always the dreaded paintball gun filled with those "Prankball" stink bombs. Unload that on someone from the bushes on a hot summer night. They wont be back. But of course, that might not be so legal.

so don't go "vigilante" on them, but shoot them with a paintball gun (commit a 2nd degree felony Aggravated Battery) so you're critical of vigilantism, yet you are espousing exactly that.   You're full of great ideas!  I'm going to offer you some free advice, don't go doing those things you offered up as "fun" such as spraying someone with a paintgun, hose or shooting them with anything unless you're looking for 3 hots and a cot and a cellmate named Bubba with a penchant for skinny white boys.

[Ocklawaha]

Cindi, I think you have COMPLETELY misunderstood my posts on this subject, but don't sweat it, you won't be the first one.

In short, I am completely agreeing with you that there is nothing left to try, short of jail time type offenses.  I know these people like family, and I know if you and your neighbors ramp it up, you might drive them off for a period, but at the risk of marking yourself, your house, your own family, for some very violent people (pimps). Even someone I know in Los Angeles that had the guts to start a mission like I'm speaking of has had: car bombed, rattle snake (complete with gift ribbon and death note) left on porch, shed and garage burned, and finally house and property (in the foothills) burned. These people were HELPING the hookers get out, imagine if they would have been fighting with them and those pimps?

Sure, you live in the neighborhood and must do something, but really the only something that is even 1/2 way safe is the JSO, and even then at great risk if they find out your the one reporting it.  It's rather like my life in Colombia, not that crime was as bad as Jax. but if something was going down and the policia were not on scene, "I see nothing! I hear nothing! I say nothing!" Rather then living in your neighborhood it can be a battle for survival, and I don't think Springfield wants or needs that.

What I'm suggesting is a fresh approach, it's worked wonders in Las Vegas, OKC, and a few other cities. It doen't solve the problem, but is a huge step toward solving it. People that like you, were completely frustrated and suddenly found some of these folks were working WITH them rather then fighting them. Believe it or not, the women and some of the men too, involved in prostitution are victims. Like Stockholm syndrome or batter spouse, once they have been deprogrammed they can see the light and often go back into the neighborhood to help their sisters and brothers of the night to get out.

Jacksonville can do this.

OCKLAWAHA

[Springfielder]

I also posted this in a thread about Springfield running off the "HO's" and as usual (I've posted this sort of stuff before) got jumped by a handful of community vigilantes ready to paint gun, taze or otherwise assault the guys and girls on the street.  Long before university OSU-OK, I've lived on the street, and know well how "fun" it is. These people wanting to embarrass, assault, herd, or otherwise harm these people, don't have a clue. I'm amazed at one of them, a former hippie turned cop, who callously passes it off as "a choice!"  In fact "A conscious choice to be _________ " seems the standard conservative answer. It's also DEAD WRONG. You can't make choices if your not equipped to make them, mentally or emotionally.

I'm sorry that you once lived on the streets, but obviously you made the choice to better yourself and your situation...which is exactly my point. Personally, I don't care if you feel my stance is callous or not. I don't condone abusing anyone, and certainly have never, ever suggested that anyone do harm to the hookers that wander the streets. The fact remains, it is a choice...it's not forced upon them, they can seek alternative means of supporting themselves and there's agencies to help with that. I'm sorry for those who have been abused and feel this is the way to go in life, but it's still a choice they make.

I do support making it legal, with health checks and taxation...but not walking the streets as they do now. If an adult wants to spend money for sex with another consenting adult, that's their choice, but I do not like them being out in public on our streets.