Buying a house in Springfield

[avs]

I'm a Realtor who has specialized in Springfield for the past 6 years and I have worked with primarily first time home buyers and the programs.  The hardest thing about the first time home buyer programs is that the house has to be in a like new condition to get the loan approved - even the renovated homes are hard to get this.  But it can be done.  You just have to  get a house in a very specific condition.  There are several new homes in Springfield that would easily pass through the First Time Home Buyer programs.  SRG has several models and ONH is building the first LEEDhttp://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=1988 Certified house on W 11th Street.  These new houses mimic the old style and have some similar characteristics, such as hardwood etc.

It is a great community and I hope the process goes as smoothly as possible!

[02roadking]

From my understanding.... If you insulate the walls of  a balloon frame that have plaster walls, you can run the risk of condensation building up in the insulation, creating mold and/or rot in the walls. The condensation coming from the cool air-conditioned inside and the humid moist outside during summer. Sounds plausable, though I'm really not sure. I'm think other variables are involved like shaded or sun drenched sides of the house, humidity levels and how cool or hot you keep the home.
   Yeah. I still have knob & tube in the ceiling lighting in mine.

[cindi]

From my understanding.... If you insulate the walls of  a balloon frame that have plaster walls, you can run the risk of condensation building up in the insulation, creating mold and/or rot in the walls. The condensation coming from the cool air-conditioned inside and the humid moist outside during summer. Sounds plausable, though I'm really not sure. I'm think other variables are involved like shaded or sun drenched sides of the house, humidity levels and how cool or hot you keep the home.
   Yeah. I still have knob & tube in the ceiling lighting in mine.

i have been told the same thing.  got to let these old girls breathe.  somehow doesn't make me feel any better when the winter time electric bills come in though.

[Dog Walker]

Bucket, I used that blown-in paper fiber method in a 1940's house on St. Pete Beach when I was re-siding it.  This was about 1973.  It was wonderful insulation both for cold/heat and for noise.  Made a huge difference in the comfort level.  The house did not have wood lathe, but perforated "plaster" board which was what was used by the 40's.  It is just heavy duty drywall with holes all over it for the plaster to key onto.

The woman who bought the house from us in 1979 just sold it this past year and I had a chance to talk with a neighbor who was still next door.  He says that the house is still in perfect condition as is the cypress flitch siding we put on it over the original siding.  So evidently the paper fiber insulation did not promote rot or cause any other problem in that situation.

We have to be careful here in Florida not to take too much of our insulation information from companies and organizations further north.  Up there in the winter time they have a real problem with the warm, moist air inside a house condensing when  it hits the much colder outside air and causing moisture problems, mold and rot, inside the wall cavities.  We don't have this problem and it changes what materials we can use for insulation and even how it should be installed.

Karl, if your house was built prior to WWI (1918) then you have a better built house than most.  The sheathing on the outside of the house under the siding is especially unusual and makes your house near indestructible except for fire.  Heart pine is also known as fat lighter wood.  I think it just gets harder and harder with age and I've given up trying to nail into it and instead drill pilot holes and use screws.  Our old houses were built with first growth, Long-leaf pine too; a really fabulous wood and much stronger than any pine you can get now.  Only place you can get it now is from the bottom of rivers and it is expen$ive!

In most of old Riverside (pre-WWI), the rich folks built their houses on the corner lots (no gated communities in those days!) and those are the houses with the fancy floors, trim and better construction.  Middle class folks built their houses in the middle of the streets and those houses are usually smaller and less fancy than the corner ones. Our old house in the middle of a block was obviously built with a very close eye on costs.  Even the upstairs floors and doors are of a lower grade than the ones downstairs where visitors could see.

[Miss Fixit]

Dog Walker, I'm interested in your comment about houses on corner lots usually built by wealthier people and so more elaborate.  I've noticed that myself and wonder if you knew why that was?

[Dog Walker]

I think it was because the lots were much bigger so the houses could be.  Also at that time there were not so many places around where you could hook up to utilities like water, electric and gas.  If you wanted to build a new house you had to go where the infrastructure was.

Also, as Ock will be quick to point out, even if you were rich you needed to be close to transportation.  Pre-WWI that meant the streetcar lines.  Look at the houses in old Riverside and you will see that the driveways and garages were added much later.  Some house still don't have driveways and there are a lot of shared driveways too.

Go west of King street, which was developed post WWI and all of a sudden you will see original driveways and garages.  Cars were becoming much more common then.

[Karl_Pilkington]

our home was built in 1909 and it is indeed sturdy.  We recently had some of the siding replaced with cedar and our carpenter was really impressed with the heart pine sheathing underneath.  And yes, fire is the one thing that I do worry about knowing how fast this heart pine burns.  When we've had work done I've saved the heart pine scrap for our outside firepit.  We also have a much higher grade heart pine flooring in the main downstairs part of the house.  Its a very tight grain whereas the upstairs has a much wider grain.

[Dog Walker]

Social manners were very different at that time.  Visitors to your home never went into the "family" parts of the house.  They would only ever see the hall, parlor and dining room.  So the good floors, the good furniture, the good windows were put where they would impress the visitors.  Grade one pine floors in the "public" rooms and grade three in the upstairs bedrooms.  Our house is the same.

Heart pine was the cheap floor at the time.  Oak with contrasting color inlay would be used in the really fancy houses.  Now, of course, the heart pine is way more expensive than oak.  Our house in St. Pete had Magnolia floors, something I have never seen before or since.  It was harder and denser than oak by far.

[Overstreet]

........ If you insulate the walls of  a balloon frame that have plaster walls, you can run the risk of condensation building up in the insulation, creating mold and/or rot in the walls. The condensation coming from the cool air-conditioned inside and the humid moist outside during summer. Sounds plausable, though I'm really not sure. I'm think other variables are involved like shaded or sun drenched sides of the house, humidity levels and how cool or hot you keep the home..............

A lot of this depends upon how the wall cavity is sealed or if it is sealed. For example if the bottom is open to the crawl space moisture can come up from below. The ex-laws 1929 buildings in SC had lap siding over felt, early "tar paper" over diagonal board sheathing. The "felt" provided the vapor barrier. The top and bottom of the balloon framing was sealed.  So if it was done on yours you may be able to insulate no problem.

The key is moisture moves from hot temperature to cold. North or south the transfer is the same. We have more AC days compaired to northern heat days. So ours moves from outside to inside and we vapor barrier from the outside. Up north they vapor barrier under the inside finish because the moisture moves from heated inside to cold outside. 

[Ernest Street]

Yep, Our 2 story in the middle of the block had the Oak flooring downstairs and pine upstairs. The Heart Pine has beautiful hues of red and pink, but is unfortunately soft as hell.
Karl...I like calling it "fat lighter" and it is scary how flammable the resin is The frames of some of these houses will deflect a nail gun set at 100psi.
Florida Forester...You are correct, there might have been termites here several decades ago, but haven't heard of anyone finding any new damage...just rot and the occasional carpenter ant. (maybe they refuse to cross Main Street!?)
Ahh plaster and drywall. If you look closely you will see both human and pet hair of all colors mixed in with the plaster.
It was collected from barbers and beauty shops back in the day for those long forgotten artisans we called Master Plasterers.
You will sometimes have trouble getting long drywall boards to lay flat across the lathe....Remember..these masters "Floated" these walls and ceilings. My octagon dining room was impossible to Crown Mold due to the corners being rounded!Correct me if I'm wrong,but I heard people had to let this plaster dry for a couple month's before a family could move in.
Even if you remove lathe, you still might have to do a little tuck and trim with the framing to get a flat ceiling or wall (a rouge 2X4 will always be sticking out 3/4")
Lastly..don't be discouraged if you cant fish wire through a balloon stud, it is VERY common to have the bottom filled up with the old "Squeezings" of plaster...easy to remove.
You will never be totally finished ,but it's fun showing your friends what you completed...Yes it's rewarding

[iloveionia]

I think Historic Springfield is a great buy.  Definitely, like Dan B said, get with a local Realtor.  We have several that live in the hood.  Springfield is on the National Register of Historic Places.  Come live with us!!

[9a is my backyard]

Thanks everyone for the great suggestions and advice! This discussion is typical of MetroJax: interesting, insightful, and takes on a life of it's own. It also brings out what I love about Springfield. People are clearly passionate about their homes and their neighborhood - who wouldn't want to live in a place like that?

[Debbie Thompson]

Our sentiments exactly, 9A. :-)

[Springfield Chicken]

As a Realtor and an almost homeowner in Springfield, all I can say is - Springfield is great.  We are looking forward to moving in soon.  I have researched listings in Springfield as both a professional and a consumer and the comments you are getting are accurate.  It's not a simple purchase because there are a lot of factors in each home to weigh and consider.  But the values are there and financing is available, even for renovation loans.  Let me know if I can help in any way, and welcome!