The SPARlisted Convenience Stores

[uptowngirl]

I can tell you now, the owner is rarely there, and if he was why in the hell would he risk his life and limb to yell at people on the corner, not even IN his store? Are there peeps hanging out there sometimes- sure, but not nearly as bad as any of the other stores in the neighborhood. In fact there are three other stores within a couple of blocks that are much, much worse. I have never, ever seen a a hooker turning tricks ont he property, not anyone dealing drugs on the property. Are there pipes at the store? Maybe, also papers for sure (they even sale this stuff in this type of store in Queens Harbor. I can usually see both sides on most of these arguments, but in this case i think it is more of a personal issue than anything else because there is much, much worse activity at other stores in the same area. I do happen to know the owner, and when he first moved in he did try very hard to keep the place up, and riff raff out- but certain people in the neighborhood avoided his store because he sold pipes and cigars in plastic tubes, in fact it is some of the same people complaining now. Again, some owners are not going to call the police- it is a cultural thing and it is pure ignorance of other cultures to blame them for this.

[Dan B]

In fairness, UTG, I personally wish that drugs were legalized. I do not have a moral dilemma as it relates to the use of drugs. I believe to each his own, so long as it does not cross over into someone elses life. However, in the current set up, I am more worried about the crime that drugs (or really, the money generated by those drugs) than the drug themselves.


None-the-less, if the owner, (or manager, or whoever) would make even a little bit of effort in diffusing the loitering, it would be a much better environment.

I would rather support the business because I see its value, rather than because it sucks a little less than the guy next door.

[fsu813]

You guys should attend Shadco to hear the laundry list of concerns.

It's one of 2 topics of discussion almost every time (the other being prostitution on Perry).

For the record, he's sold pipes & scales, i've witness prostitution activity first hand, others have seen drug activity, he has not been cooperative with JSO, Shadco, or Spar, and he does nothing to discourage loitering or littering.

Interpret that how you wish.

[uptowngirl]

He is not even there. I would like to know how he is not being cooperative? I know for a fact he does not want anything to to do with SPAR because before he even opened he was harrassed. Again certain cultures will not work with the police and will accept situations we would not because of this. All but two stores I can think of are owned by immigrants with a totally different view then anyone else posting or complaining on this subject. I know one owner whose uncle was kidnapped, robbed, and murdered by off duty police officers- it was a big story around here years ago- he is not going to call the police_ever. Instead he does what most of these guys do, he hires a couple of locals to pick the place up and keep things cool. (this is NOT a slam on JSO, it is an example of a cultural issue that some just refuse to acknowledge- must not travel or get out much).

Dan- I agree, it stinks to choose a place because it is not as bad as the other, but stores change when customers do- people shop elsewhere because people hang out on the corner? Well then he is going to have to sell to the kind of people who hang out on the corner.

FSU- do you have pictures or recordings of this activity? I would gladly hand a copy over tot he owner and tell him of your concerns. I am sure he would address this if true. As far as being culpable for drugs being sold on the corner- well I don't get that, it is not even on his property! He sells scales and pipes? So? That is not illegal. It seems to me a few raids on the houses around here would reveal a lot more culpabilty '-)

Jimmy Buffett said it best "there is a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning" I think that fits most of the neighborhood, the rich and the poor....

[Stenodave]

He is not even there. I would like to know how he is not being cooperative? I know for a fact he does not want anything to to do with SPAR because before he even opened he was harrassed. Again certain cultures will not work with the police and will accept situations we would not because of this. All but two stores I can think of are owned by immigrants with a totally different view then anyone else posting or complaining on this subject. I know one owner whose uncle was kidnapped, robbed, and murdered by off duty police officers- it was a big story around here years ago- he is not going to call the police_ever. Instead he does what most of these guys do, he hires a couple of locals to pick the place up and keep things cool. (this is NOT a slam on JSO, it is an example of a cultural issue that some just refuse to acknowledge- must not travel or get out much).

Dan- I agree, it stinks to choose a place because it is not as bad as the other, but stores change when customers do- people shop elsewhere because people hang out on the corner? Well then he is going to have to sell to the kind of people who hang out on the corner.

FSU- do you have pictures or recordings of this activity? I would gladly hand a copy over tot he owner and tell him of your concerns. I am sure he would address this if true. As far as being culpable for drugs being sold on the corner- well I don't get that, it is not even on his property! He sells scales and pipes? So? That is not illegal. It seems to me a few raids on the houses around here would reveal a lot more culpability '-)

Jimmy Buffett said it best "there is a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning" I think that fits most of the neighborhood, the rich and the poor....

I haven't seen this place yet, but using the excuse that he isn't even there doesn't release him of his culpability.  Culpability: A person acts negligently with respect to a material element of an offense when he should be aware of a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the material element exists or will result from his conduct.  So I don't think that is a fair argument in this instance. 

Are you suggesting that we now record activities at this store too?  Judging by the clientele people have been talking about (which I can't confirm myself, just having to take some people at their word) I would think they wouldn't take kindly to seeing someone sitting in a car at night with a video camera.  It could even escalate the issue and become even more dangerous.

I also don't agree with the train of thought or excuse that because they are immigrants that they have some built in fear of the police.  During my travels in the Navy to the countries that these people might have immigrated from, while they are scared of the police there, I have found that they are much more comfortable with the police here.  Over there, they know they don't have rights, which isn't true here.  Unless you have lived or spent some time in these countries, it is foolish to think you understand their culture just by what you have seen on TV. Just watch CNN and FOX cover a political event that you have attended and see how skewed and different each network covers it.

Now after saying all that, I haven't had the chance to visit this store and of course I will make my decision on my own but the points justifying this activity seem weak at best.

[sheclown]

Perhaps the owner could put out a sign:  "For Whites Only"

[Stenodave]

Perhaps the owner could put out a sign:  "For Whites Only"

WOW, that was uncalled for.

[sheclown]

Perhaps the owner could put out a sign:  "For Whites Only"

WOW, that was uncalled for.

Point is:  It is ALL uncalled for.

[strider]

 There is a store down the street from this one.  The owner has tried time and time again to do what is asked of him by the community. Yet even on this thread, his store is considered worst than even this BP.  Louise DeSpain has made personal complaints to the owner about the loitering, the guys hanging out in front of his store and how he hasn't done anything about it. Odd that no apology was offered when it was pointed out that there is indeed a bus stop in front of this store and there is nothing anyone can do about the people at the bus stop.

The Liberty BP once was Sizmore's previously and let me tell you, Mr. Sizmore is a good guy. He ran a legitimate business but catered to a clientele that wasn't what many in this community like. So he was maligned as often as not. By SPAR Council's own Louise DeSpain.  By many of the people who are posting on this thread.

Don't like the drug dealing on the corner?  Don't like the Prostitution?  Find out why the police can't stop it.  Find out why the police are more likely to arrest someone for walking down the middle of the street or drinking too much beer than selling drugs. Blaming the store for not stopping some guys from hanging out or not trespassing a "known" drug dealer is not solving the problem.  Unless of course you think just moving that drug dealer down the road a bit is solving the problem.

This isn't about the drugs, or the prostitution, it is about not liking the people who are "hanging out".  Sheclown’s post was not uncalled for.  It should be a wake up call for what is heading to be worse behavior by a few of you in this community than is ever going on at the Liberty BP.

[Stenodave]

Perhaps the owner could put out a sign:  "For Whites Only"

WOW, that was uncalled for.

Point is:  It is ALL uncalled for.

So it being "ALL" uncalled for justifies trying to make this a racial issue?  It has been my experience that the people who are quick to make something about race are usually the ones that have an underlying race issue.  I didn't post anything about race, yet you jumped in and made that comment.  That is disappointing.

[sheclown]

oh, I disappoint on a regular basis.

[Stenodave]

There is a store down the street from this one.  The owner has tried time and time again to do what is asked of him by the community. Yet even on this thread, his store is considered worst than even this BP.  Louise DeSpain has made personal complaints to the owner about the loitering, the guys hanging out in front of his store and how he hasn't done anything about it. Odd that no apology was offered when it was pointed out that there is indeed a bus stop in front of this store and there is nothing anyone can do about the people at the bus stop.

The Liberty BP once was Sizmore's previously and let me tell you, Mr. Sizmore is a good guy. He ran a legitimate business but catered to a clientele that wasn't what many in this community like. So he was maligned as often as not. By SPAR Council's own Louise DeSpain.  By many of the people who are posting on this thread.

Don't like the drug dealing on the corner?  Don't like the Prostitution?  Find out why the police can't stop it.  Find out why the police are more likely to arrest someone for walking down the middle of the street or drinking too much beer than selling drugs. Blaming the store for not stopping some guys from hanging out or not trespassing a "known" drug dealer is not solving the problem.  Unless of course you think just moving that drug dealer down the road a bit is solving the problem.

This isn't about the drugs, or the prostitution, it is about not liking the people who are "hanging out".  Sheclown’s post was not uncalled for.  It should be a wake up call for what is heading to be worse behavior by a few of you in this community than is ever going on at the Liberty BP.

That is sad to hear about the way Mr. Sizmore was being treated, if what you say is true, I agree with you 100%.  How could I not?

But by saying me discussing this in a forum is the same thing as "heading to be worse behavior" is just silly.  I'm assuming by using "you", you were including me in your argument.  I don't understand why there is no middle ground on this forum?  It seems that if you are a member of SPAR, whenever you say one single thing, it is translated as SPAR has these views, if and when I join SPAR, do I loose all rights to have my own opinion?  And why does the other side take the stance if you aren't in SPAR, you are against the improvement of Springfield?  Why does it have to be so polar opposite?  It's like nobody can be bipartisan.  It borders on immature.  It's too bad that there is this huge gap for such a nice neighborhood, when if everyone would just bend a little bit and listen to what the other side is saying instead of just getting ready with their response, we could make great improvements.  

[sheclown]

I agree Steno.

[Stenodave]

I agree Steno.

You know, I personally don't have anything against anyone in here, I just hate to see this huge divide.  I love hearing both sides of the story, I don't have an allegiance to either side.  I am a new home owner (yes I have written a check to Mack at SRG) and I just want what is best for my wife and kids in our new neighborhood.  I don't give a crap which side is going to make that happen, I just want it to happen.

[sheclown]

I want it to happen, too.