War against suburbia

[BridgeTroll]

Jacksonville is sort of an exception regarding the issues you cite.  I have lived in and been to many other cities in this country where those options do exist.  My argument is against the "war on suburbia".  Not that jacksonville does not need a vibrant, livable downtown.  The two should be able to co exist.

[thelakelander]

They say 1/3 of the general population prefers to live urban, 1/3 suburban/rural and the remaining 1/3 doesn't care either way.  I agree, the suburbia and a vibrant livable urban city should be able to co-exist.

[cline]

It wasnt a natural choice.  It was one we created, and all this chatter about suburbia having 'voted with their feet' is nonsense.

The fact of the matter is they have a choice now.  The thousands of people that live in St. Johns County and Nocatee and those areas are not clamoring to move back into the urban core even though there are housing options available for them there.  They are choosing to stay in suburbia.  Evidently, some people like it there, just like other like living in the core or neighborhoods surrounding the core.  That's why its important to have options.  Just like lake said, some people like the burbs, some like urban envionments.

[cline]

Where in the downtown would you move 30 thousand single family residents?  There is plenty of open land, my friend.  But there isnt enough land where the use is permitted.

I'm pretty sure that if 30k people were beating down the door to build single family residences in downtown, they could rally and get a zoning or land use change pushed through so that they could do it over in LaVilla or Brooklyn. 

[BridgeTroll]

Families left downtown long before they were "zoned out".  They were not outlawed or chased out.  They left for a variety of reasons many of which were valid then.  Many cities have plenty of single family homes.  Stephen you have lived in more than a few of these cities.  Jacksonville seems to not be one of those places.  One of the main focuses of this site is to help re create that livability/vibrancy.  I believe in it, I endorse it, and I promote it in my way.  As you know I currently live in the suburbs... but I enjoy the urban landscape.  I frequent the businesses downtown and would like nothing more than to see it succeed.

[buckethead]

In the meantime the crushing taxation of the urban cores (plus the negative pressures put on customers and businesses) and the bizarre nit picky public policies governing daily life provided an extra push to people to move out to the cheaper land and less taxed lifestyle of the burbs.


Moving to the unincorporated areas means that you don't have to pay the higher taxes of the city, despite being able to take advantage of its infrastructure.  The house that you build for 250k today is then subject to low or no property tax in comparison to the smaller house that you buy in San Marco for 250k (land being more valuable in the core)

But 20 years later, you have paid the price of another home in taxes if you bought in San Marco.  In the unincorporated suburb, you have paid a fraction of it.

Is this type of taxation not in line with the concept of progressive taxation?
Your following posts make for a compelling arguement, however.

[BridgeTroll]

I agree with most of what you say Stephen.  MY POINT... is there need not be a "war" on suburbia.  Suburbia does not need to be denigrated or frowned upon to make the urban core a better place for everyone.  To make downtown a livable destination the goal shold be to convince suburbanites that a healthy core is good for them also... NOT that they are someone to be fought against.

[BridgeTroll]

Cool...   Have a great weekend!  I intend to enjoy some watering holes downtown tonight!