Whats with all the Springfield bashing

[Springfielder]

As I stated in another thread, I think it's actually positive press if "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers" get the impression they shouldn't bother trying to open in Springfield.

And conversely, if businesses that want to operate in an environment that is unfriendly to "businesses that litter the community, visually and literally, without concern or attention to it by their ownership, and those that continue to enable criminal behaviors by their owners or customers," get the impression that Springfield is now a viable option, this is good news all the way around!

I'm curious, what do you consider to be these businesses that litter the community, visually and literally? I'm also curious as to what businesses have kept other ones from opening here in Springfield? The new ones that have recently opened within the past couple of years, months, etc are rather nice ones, such as Three Layers, Uptown, Premier Pharmacy and Fusion...and they all seem to be happy with their locations and happy with the neighborhood as a whole. So what am I missing other than some of the places like a few of the convenience stores that seem to cater to those who buy single beers and such, that have been here for years..

[Dan B]

...But what is the benefit or point of such open hostility? Does it make them feel better about themselves? If so, that's really so sad of a statement about who they are. Pathetic really.

Yes. I call it my Fat Kid theory. When your in elementary school, often people picked on the fat kid. The entire point is to build themselves up to feel superior. As if the challenges of being an overweight adolescent werent enough, now they have to deal with the social side effect of it.

Springfield is, essentially, the fat kid of Jacksonville, and like that kid, we push back and tell the rest of the city to leave us alone. But it seems to me, being defensive doesn't seem to ever work out well.

Its time for Springfielders to feel good about their decision, embrace the core (Riversiders and downtowners typically embrace Springfield, and in turn, we need to embrace them!), and stop trying to convince people.
It seems to me, that trying to convince people leads to idiotic statements like "there is no crime in Springfield" when we all know first hand that there is. The discussion we need to have is now is not "is there crime, or isnt there crime in Springfield" it should be "hey, we have some crime, what can we do next to keep pushing the crime OUT of Springfield."

who gives a rats ass if some soccer mom from PV beach, or Mandarin is afraid to drive down Main St. They are probably afraid to drive down Philips Hiway, and Dunn Ave too. Screw 'em.

[Springfield Girl]

You're right Springfielder. It is mostly non-Springfielders pushing this belief. It is people who don't live here and people who's businesses are less popular telling us we must support businesses we don't like or we won't get anything else. We have a long list of successful, thriving businesses that prove we can expect more than the crumbs some demand we accept.
Regarding litter and businesses, Zoo's comments were very clear and made sense to me. No business owner can control what their customers do but they can control their own actions. Look around the neighborhood, we have some beautiful businesses that keep their property clean and attractive. They pick up the litter on their property and care about the neighbors around them. Then you have others that are filthy and neglected. They don't pick up litter on their property and could care less if their business disrupts neighbors. They basically say a big FU to Springield residents then whine that we don't support them.

[chris farley]

When the Symphony housese were open on Silver and the fountain was being finished, I was sitting on a chair on the sidewalk in front of the fountain waiting for a workman.  I had my lunch there and was sort of dozing, when I heard a woman talking.  She was on a mobile phone, she had walked out of Silver across to the park,  and she was saying "This place is not what you think it is".  She then saw me and come over to me.  She told me that her husband had dropped her off at the houses and she was to call him for a pick up after her tour was finished, she was not to go onto the street.  She said I have just told him to pick me up here because I wanted to see a little more of the place, I have told him that what he thinks about this place is wrong.

Karla thankyou for your generous contribution to Lisa'a bench, it has been ordered and when the plaque is also done it will go into the park, I hope within 3 or 4 weeks

[chris farley]

Lisa what you say is so true.  Tommy and Mark are the epitome of that and the streets around here are kept lovely, 3 Layers also, and the neighbors all take part.  Yesterday when I came back there was a Krystal's package thrown onto the crow in front of my house, you know that had been thrown from a car, but stuff like this is picked up immediately by everyone around here.  Tommy makes sure nothing is thrown down from his store and if it is it does not stay there for long.

[grimss]

Its time for Springfielders to feel good about their decision, embrace the core (Riversiders and downtowners typically embrace Springfield, and in turn, we need to embrace them!), and stop trying to convince people.

Good point, Dan.  Many times I've followed postings re. crime and seen people bashing Riverside, insisting Springfield is far safer. Other posters decide everyone in Avondale must have a stick up their A$$. The whole "tear another place down in order to build yourself up" strategy has never made much sense to me. Instead, we should all be working to boost the core as a whole so that people in those mindless gated Southside communities realize it's okay to come out from behind the gates and see what real neighborhoods look like. (Oops, looks like I'm guilty of a little bashing here, too)

As an aside, I've just returned to Avondale from a great afternoon in Springfield.  After picking up some produce and goodies at FRAM (F-R-I-G-I-D), we watched our kids play b-ball at the Riverside Y, then went to Uptown Market for our first meal there. Great! And an amazing space.  Then we found our way to Three Layers--also a first--and enjoyed some lattes while the kids wolfed down some seriously delicious, just-out-of-the-oven cookies.  Noticed some of the MetJax crew there. Thought the atmosphere was terrific.  Realized we don't have anything in RA that's comparable. As we were heading back home, DH--who's a JAX native--remarked on all the great architecture, and said he wished our streets over here were as wide as the ones in Springfield.

A very nice day in the urban core.

[fsu813]

Springfield Girl,

You missed the important caveat: businesses that litter (literally & visually) AND don't do anything about it. If an owner cares and addresses it, fine. If they dont......not fine. And too many don't. Hard to support those that don't.

[Springfield Girl]

 FSU, that's  what I meant.
Great post and point Grimss. Though I live in Springfield I have lots of friends in Riv/Av and spend lots of time there. I actually ran into you at the gym last week. I love the urban core and personally don't care what other people think. The train has left the station and we will all thrive and succeed whether the rest of Jacksonville gets on board or not.

[sheclown]

what does it mean to "visually litter?" 

Can you get a ticket for that?

[CS Foltz]

I don't know about a ticket...........but I bet you could get arrested!

[samiam]

the following is from the national park service

Benefits of Local Historic Districts
Local districts protect the investments of owners and residents. Buyers know that the aspects that make a particular area attractive will be protected over a period of time. Real estate agents in many cities use historic district status as a marketing tool to sell properties.

Local districts encourage better design. It has been shown through comparative studies that there is a greater sense of relatedness, more innovative use of materials, and greater public appeal within historic districts than in areas without historic designations.

Local districts help the environment. Historic district revitalization can, and should, be part of a comprehensive environmental policy.

The educational benefits of creating local districts are the same as those derived from any historic preservation effort. Districts help explain the development of a place, the source of inspiration, and technological advances. They are a record of ourselves and our communities.

A local district can result in a positive economic impact from tourism. A historic district that is aesthetically cohesive and well promoted can be a community's most important attraction. The retention of historic areas as a way to attract tourist dollars makes good economic sense.

The protection of local historic districts can enhance business recruitment potential. Companies continually re-locate to communities that offer their workers a higher quality of life, which is greatly enhanced by successful local preservation programs and stable historic districts.

Local districts provide social and psychological benefits. A sense of empowerment and confidence develops when community decisions are made through a structured participatory process rather than behind closed doors or without public comment.


Now pick one and print it FTU

[Springfield Girl]

what does it mean to "visually litter?" 

Can you get a ticket for that?

Not sure what Zoo was referring to but completely plastering your front plate glass storefront with beer and cigarette posters would qualify as visual litter to me. I mean why put up one when you can wallpaper the glass with twenty.

[uptowngirl]

what does it mean to "visually litter?" 

Can you get a ticket for that?

Not sure what Zoo was referring to but completely plastering your front plate glass storefront with beer and cigarette posters would qualify as visual litter to me. I mean why put up one when you can wallpaper the glass with twenty.

I sooo wish I could figure out how to post a picture here. Perfect example- on the corner of Liberty and first was a tiny store that sold cigs and beer. They painted the place, put up some cool neon signs, added some crab and shrimp for sale and incorporated that into the signage painted on the building in a very cute way, keep the lot VERY clean and viola, you have a contributing business in the neighborhood! They still sell cigs and beer, but NOW this is a place  everyone can use and care to support...just some cheap paint, food that EVERYONE wants, and ten minutes to pick up trash... it isn't hard ya know.....clean it up, offer a product everyone uses, and care about how your store looks and you will be successful.

BTW- NONE of the new businesses listed opened on Main next to a pawn or junk store- just saying....

[ChriswUfGator]

what does it mean to "visually litter?" 

Can you get a ticket for that?

Not sure what Zoo was referring to but completely plastering your front plate glass storefront with beer and cigarette posters would qualify as visual litter to me. I mean why put up one when you can wallpaper the glass with twenty.

I sooo wish I could figure out how to post a picture here. Perfect example- on the corner of Liberty and first was a tiny store that sold cigs and beer. They painted the place, put up some cool neon signs, added some crab and shrimp for sale and incorporated that into the signage painted on the building in a very cute way, keep the lot VERY clean and viola, you have a contributing business in the neighborhood! They still sell cigs and beer, but NOW this is a place  everyone can use and care to support...just some cheap paint, food that EVERYONE wants, and ten minutes to pick up trash... it isn't hard ya know.....clean it up, offer a product everyone uses, and care about how your store looks and you will be successful.

BTW- NONE of the new businesses listed opened on Main next to a pawn or junk store- just saying....

But they have to have a building to open up in too...

If a pawn shop or thrift store keeps a place standing until something better comes along, then it's a win. Getting rid of businesses that are keeping the doors open, regardless of how you feel about their appearance, isn't doing anyone any favors when there's already a big glut of vacant commercial property. You don't want to lose the commercial building fabric, it will delay the area's rebound.

[uptowngirl]

I get that, but these businesses are not keeping the buildings standing. I know of several business owners that have serious issues in the building and nothing is done, they just put up with it. As the building owners continue to ask outrageous rents for these places we will see less startups and more vacancies, especially when it is a business that is not supported with a strong enough customer base. In the end it is the customer base that keeps a business open or not, I think we can all agree on that no?