COJ declares unrelated people not allowed by code to share single family home

[uptowngirl]

Dan B:  As to worries about your daughters because someone may be in recovery next door, or even 15 guys, I think you should worry more about that relative or close, personal friend of the families.  Those seem to be where problems often come from.  Oh, and don’t go outside anymore ever, it might be dangerous.  To do anything less would be professing “to know the follys and foibles of all”.
The point is, the fear you expressed is common and just that, fear.  To the point that it is prejudicial.

Uptowngirl:  You can not use the argument about a family being permanent unless you wish to do away with divorce.  No family can be assumed to be permanent.  All that can be assumed is intent.  If the intent of five unrelated guys to live together as a family unit, then it is a family under the code as previously always defined and interpreted.

You also need to keep in mind that activities like eating together, watching TV together and even cooking together can not be regulated to determine whether anyone is living together as a family unit unless you can prove it is always done when families are related by blood.  We all know they aren't.  So,  the only means to regulate that is to insure the dwelling unit be such that the family unit can do those things together if they wish, which is whay the dwelling unit definition is written as it is. 

When looking at what must be done to provide reasonable accommodations to a protected class like the physically disabled, you must provide more than equal.  Say we look at an office building being built that has ten steps up to it.  The steps provided are the equal accommodation.  All must go up ten steps to enter.  However, the ADA says that you must provide the ability of those disabled to enter as well, so the extra accommodation is the ramp and insuring the door way is wide enough.   This could apply here as the reasonable accommodation is to allow us the five as it was previously an excepted number.  Of course, that would still leave the gay community and those unmarried living together potentially literally out in the cold.

Ahhh I did not understand we were speaking of physically disabled adult males livign together, I thought we were talking about sober houses. Sober houses would imply drug addiction or alcoholism, which is very different. But I still think the code posted is specific to five or more, and again, I believe there is no intention of these men living together as a family for long term. With a marriage or couple moving in together the intent is long term, it may not work out, but the intent is there.

[CS Foltz]

I keep coming back to who complained to Code? If the GC made this determination based on current law, someone is pushing for no reason at all other than just trying to be a pain in the butt! No reason for this to be taking place..........I guess SPAR will be making a poster to inform the neighborhood against this also!

[CS Foltz]

stephendare..........I'm deadly serious about forming an alternate association! You and I both know that there is no substitute for numbers and letting SPAR die a slow death. Renewals  for SPAR are slacking off and the membership numbers are declining and no one appears to question just why? I don't care what kinda of inroads that SPAR has ...............force them to die off by bringing an alternative into life and go from there!

[sheclown]

I vote for the Women's Club running the neighborhood. 

[samiam]

I vote that the neighborhood runs the neighborhood if there is an issue vote on it

[sheclown]

that would be awesome

[strider]

Uptownngirl:Ahhh I did not understand we were speaking of physically disabled adult males livign together, I thought we were talking about sober houses. Sober houses would imply drug addiction or alcoholism, which is very different. But I still think the code posted is specific to five or more, and again, I believe there is no intention of these men living together as a family for long term. With a marriage or couple moving in together the intent is long term, it ma y not work out, but the intent is there.

Unfortunately for you then, under the eyes of the law, men and women in recovery from drug abuse and the effects of alcoholism are indeed treated the same as and are entitled to the very same protections and rights as that physically disabled person. Under federal laws, they are not any different. 

The code posted was not specific to five or more as all the single family homes in question have five or less. Long term, as defined by most, would imply six months?  A year?  The truth is, "long term" or not does not enter into the family issue, but is covered by other laws and applies to married couple and everyone else.

As to what if the intent of these men living together as a family unit, sorry, but I have seen real Christmas trees, stockings on the mantle, guys sharing the cooking chores....seems like more of a family than many of the related by blood "families" I know.  Your opinion is wrong.

[Ocklawaha]

Back to the blatant discrimination against the homeless, disabled, sick, veterans, or throw away 's of society.

Forget SPAR, at least for the issue at hand and put on you "alternative" thinking cap, get out of your box... For example:

A small fee at the courthouse and everybody that comes through that door is a LEGAL brother... Tell em to stick that in their pipe and smoke it.

Tweak your non-profit status and found "The Church of Springfield," a religious order that believes in the brotherhood of all of mankind. "Hello, ACLU? Have I got a deal for you!"

Go out to FSCJ, UNF, JU etc. and get a couple of humanities professors to spread your assemblage message across the campus, be SURE that CBS, ABC, NBC, CNN, FOX are all there for the protest.

Write your story down and get it out to a few magazines that deal with benevolence. Trust me, they are ALWAYS looking for story's in specialty publications. Watch the fireworks start when the magazine hits the stands.

Go toss yourself on the steps of Folio, Buzz, EU or even the TU, you'd be amazed at how hungry this city is for REAL story's.

Link up with a local church, priest, wait until JAX tries to take on The Catholic or Lutheran Charities. Want to REALLY scare the big shots go talk to Mac down at FBC.

There are always VETERANS groups waiting to go to war for our brother veterans, everything from the Sons of Confederate Veterans, to the VFW, Fleet Reserve, DAV, Amvets. THE LAST thing this city wants in a hearing is a room full of OCKLAWAHA'S from Nam.

SEE? There are ways to win your fight, and there are ways to win the fight for EVERYONE and kick the hell out of the abusers. It's not revenge we want, we are seeking a Reckoning. "Don't seek Victory - Force Change!"

OCKLAWAHA
Your friendly happy hippie
at your radical service...

[lunacity]

Please dont take this as anything other than an honest question. Are you putting 4 or 5 guys per unit? Speaking from first person, if i had 15 single recovering males living next to me I might be a little nervous (keeping in mind, I have two daughters).

Actually, the triplex houses women and no I don't have 5 in each unit it's actually less.  Futher, when I do have men I always do a background check first and foremost checking to see if they are a sex offender.

[Dan B]

Cool, Thanks for the info Luna.

[mtraininjax]

So this has become a Springfield thread, perhaps it should be renamed and moved to Springfield. I do not know of the same issue anywhere else in the City.

[sheclown]

This is not about the overlay, this is about the code.  What happens to these sober houses, will happen to sober houses throughout the city.  If code enforcement officers are allowed to interprete the laws, then if your neighbor doesn't like you ... a few phone calls and your house is an "illegal rooming house" ie.  you have a roommate.  Say this won't happen to you? 

If not, then it is aimed solely at people in recovery.  (Even better for proving discrimination).

Let's talk about "making a federal case about it."  Sarasota County had to pay $750k to a halfway house a couple of years back.  Daytona Beach as well.  Angi and friends will be heading to federal court over this.  Additionally, even if Angi & friends choose not to hire an attorney (an unlikely scenario) , the justice department will come out of Washington to sue COJ at no charge to Angie & friends at all.  How do I know this?  Because I have already had correspondence with HUD. 

Do the residents of Jax want to give up taxpayers' money to fight a losing battle?

This is why it is not in the Springfield section.

[strider]

And it is not just the sober houses.  If Code Enforcement/ City of Jacksonville has it's way, anytime a nieghbor does not like that gay couple buying or renting that house next door, this can be used against them. It is indeed an issue everyone in Jacksonville should be concerned with.

[Dan B]

And it is not just the sober houses.  If Code Enforcement/ City of Jacksonville has it's way, anytime a nieghbor does not like that gay couple buying or renting that house next door, this can be used against them. It is indeed an issue everyone in Jacksonville should be concerned with.

And you call me concerns about having 15 unattached recovering males living next to me my daughters alarmist, yet you have a scenario in which gay couples are being hunted down. Dude. Get a grip!

[strider]

And it is not just the sober houses.  If Code Enforcement/ City of Jacksonville has it's way, anytime a nieghbor does not like that gay couple buying or renting that house next door, this can be used against them. It is indeed an issue everyone in Jacksonville should be concerned with.

And you call me concerns about having 15 unattached recovering males living next to me my daughters alarmist, yet you have a scenario in which gay couples are being hunted down. Dude. Get a grip!

The difference DAN, is that what I am saying is based an Code Enforcement's interpetation of a LAW, what you said was based on your personal opinion and fears.  Perhaps you should "Get a grip". Or just do some research about this subject.  Do some reading about the history of little laws like this and how they are applied at first and how they end up being applied later.  It might just "alarm" you, "Dude".