COJ declares unrelated people not allowed by code to share single family home

[CS Foltz]

I am still confused as to who sicked Code Enforcement on that situation. If the GC's office is making a determination based on their interpretation of the laws regarding what constitutes a "Family Unit", this should make great commentary and enlightening discussion! I hope Mr Mullaney is not prepping for his run for Mayor? I don't think this is something he should be making a statement on because we have far more reaching and important issue's to contend with...........like no vision, no plans and a budget shortfall next cycle of about $40 Million Dollars! Those numbers were the last ones running around.........but we have $23 Million Dollars to do things that should have been done long before now!

[Dan B]

Are the three separate units within this house individually metered?  If so, how is this any different than all of the other single houses divided into multiple rentable units?  It sounds to me like someone nearby has an issue with what you are doing and not the law.  Also it sounds like they have a connection within city hall and are getting a weak zoning interpretation and inside help in an attempt to bully you out of "their" neighborhood.  I think you could easily win this argument/fight with a good landuse/real estate attorney.  I would imagine that there are a few good ones in town that would take your case on as pro bono.

Fight it, and win it for the little guy and all of humanity.

This is the eventual aftermath of the rooming house issue from a couple of years ago.

[JaxNative68]

I still think the $62+ million that were pissed away on the first two courthouse designs would have covered $40 million shortfall.

[CS Foltz]

JaxNative68 ......you hit the nail right on the head!  Stop and think about all the incentive money and grants that the current Administration has passed out since coming into power.............that much and then some!  Certain persons got paid off of the top, consulting and advising yada yada......and the taxpayer has gotten the short end of the stick!

[lunacity]

Are the three separate units within this house individually metered?  If so, how is this any different than all of the other single houses divided into multiple rentable units?  It sounds to me like someone nearby has an issue with what you are doing and not the law.  Also it sounds like they have a connection within city hall and are getting a weak zoning interpretation and inside help in an attempt to bully you out of "their" neighborhood.  I think you could easily win this argument/fight with a good landuse/real estate attorney.  I would imagine that there are a few good ones in town that would take your case on as pro bono.

Fight it, and win it for the little guy and all of humanity.

Yes, the triplex has 3 meters, 3 kitchens, 3 bathrooms, 3 a/c units!

[Dan B]

Please dont take this as anything other than an honest question. Are you putting 4 or 5 guys per unit? Speaking from first person, if i had 15 single recovering males living next to me I might be a little nervous (keeping in mind, I have two daughters).

[sheclown]

you are a man, are you not to be trusted around little girls either?  geez.

Why does this discussion have to turn to this? 

[Dan B]

Do you profess to know the follys and foibles of all of the men whom you have dealt with that have hit rock bottom?

The reason I mention that I have daughters is more to show why I may feel the hesitation that I do... I wasnt trying to say she is putting up 15 pedophiles, or even trying to divert the conversation. I was just asking if she was putting 5 dudes in each unit. As I stated, it was an honest question, and not meant to be loaded.

[sheclown]

Okay let's move on.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_of_Belle_Terre_v._Boraas

Reasoning
(1) Because there is no protected class discrimination, and no fundamental right infringed by the ordinance, the proper standard of review is the rational basis test. (2) Determining what constitutes a family is the proper role of the legislature, not the judiciary, as long as there exists a rational basis for the legislature's determination. (3) The ordinance does not restrict the freedom of association, as homeowners may entertain whomever it wants. (4) The city has a rational basis for its prohibition on housing large numbers of unrelated individuals because such individuals generate more traffic, cars, and noise than a family.

So, COJ may define a family as long as it is not a basis for protected class discrimination.  As I read this...

[sheclown]

http://www.oxfordhouse.org/userfiles/file/ohrol.php

[Dan B]

Okay let's move on.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Village_of_Belle_Terre_v._Boraas

Reasoning
(1) Because there is no protected class discrimination, and no fundamental right infringed by the ordinance, the proper standard of review is the rational basis test. (2) Determining what constitutes a family is the proper role of the legislature, not the judiciary, as long as there exists a rational basis for the legislature's determination. (3) The ordinance does not restrict the freedom of association, as homeowners may entertain whomever it wants. (4) The city has a rational basis for its prohibition on housing large numbers of unrelated individuals because such individuals generate more traffic, cars, and noise than a family.

So, COJ may define a family as long as it is not a basis for protected class discrimination.  As I read this...

Protected class being based on the gender, race, or religion of the individuals? Has that ever come up in this issue?

[sheclown]

Definition of Disability: Federal laws define a person with a disability as "Any person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities; has a record of such impairment; or is regarded as having such an impairment."

In general, a physical or mental impairment includes hearing, mobility and visual impairments, chronic alcoholism, chronic mental illness, AIDS, AIDS Related Complex, and mental retardation that substantially limits one or more major life activities. Major life activities include walking, talking, hearing, seeing, breathing, learning, performing manual tasks, and caring for oneself.

HUD's definition

[sheclown]

A plaintiff may establish a violation of either the FHA or ADA under three separate theories:
(1) intentional discrimination, (2) disparate impact, or (3) failure to make a reasonable
accommodation.

I think (1) and (2) applies.  Perhaps (3) as well.

[strider]

strider: To be successful in re-interpreting the law like this, it must be applied evenly across the board. If it isn't, it will not stand a chance to hold up in any court. Anyone who really thinks this will "only be used for rooming house/ boarding houses" is very naive.

FSU813: I'd say that anyone who thinks otherwise is fear mongering, as this is what it's specifically aimed at

So, do you think the jews felt they would be OK when Hitler rounded up the disabled first?  How’s that for fear mongering?  I could  also talk about a certain anti-rooming house poster made up by SPAR Council.  The point is,  this isn’t fear mongering.  It is putting the facts out there as the law is written and has been interpreted one way for many years, but now, to “get” a group of people, they are changing that interpretation.  Common sense says everyone needs to ask “Who’s next?” 

The law now is so broad and out of context that  90 to 95% of the houses in Springfield and many other houses all over Jacksonville, could be legitimately turned in as being an illegal rooming house (not just over this particular issue, but the entire definition within the overlay). Now, ask yourself if you have any friends who live together and are not married?  Would you like someone to turn them into code enforcement right now?  Remember, if they aren’t cited, then the case against us gets weaker and weaker.  How bad do you want to get us?

[strider]

Dan B:  As to worries about your daughters because someone may be in recovery next door, or even 15 guys, I think you should worry more about that relative or close, personal friend of the families.  Those seem to be where problems often come from.  Oh, and don’t go outside anymore ever, it might be dangerous.  To do anything less would be professing “to know the follys and foibles of all”.
The point is, the fear you expressed is common and just that, fear.  To the point that it is prejudicial.

Uptowngirl:  You can not use the argument about a family being permanent unless you wish to do away with divorce.  No family can be assumed to be permanent.  All that can be assumed is intent.  If the intent of five unrelated guys to live together as a family unit, then it is a family under the code as previously always defined and interpreted.

You also need to keep in mind that activities like eating together, watching TV together and even cooking together can not be regulated to determine whether anyone is living together as a family unit unless you can prove it is always done when families are related by blood.  We all know they aren't.  So,  the only means to regulate that is to insure the dwelling unit be such that the family unit can do those things together if they wish, which is whay the dwelling unit definition is written as it is. 

When looking at what must be done to provide reasonable accommodations to a protected class like the physically disabled, you must provide more than equal.  Say we look at an office building being built that has ten steps up to it.  The steps provided are the equal accommodation.  All must go up ten steps to enter.  However, the ADA says that you must provide the ability of those disabled to enter as well, so the extra accommodation is the ramp and insuring the door way is wide enough.   This could apply here as the reasonable accommodation is to allow us the five as it was previously an excepted number.  Of course, that would still leave the gay community and those unmarried living together potentially literally out in the cold.