Is Springfield Ready for a Car Wash?

[Springfielder]

I went over to take a look after being told about this post....the dog is behind a gated area, but it has access to the building. It does have food and water. I don't know if there's blankets or anything for it to lay on inside, and it's not ideal....and not how I would treat a dog. I'll check on it again tomorrow.

Edit: let me also add....that if the dog appeared to be in distress....I have bolt cutters 

[Karl_Pilkington]

chows don't need blankets they wear one a very very thick one, meant for cold weather in China where they are thought to be one of the oldest breeds native to mongolia and siberia where it gets pretty cold.  While it may not be ideal for him, he surely isn't as bad off as he'd be if it were say August on a sunny day.

I have a chow and he's loving this weather!  BTW this is an awesome thread hijack!

[Springfielder]

True that....but it is below freezing at night and I'm glad that people show concern.

[chris farley]

Is it a chain around his neck, in freezing weather that can be a huge problem, it is supposed to get even colder.  I have a couple of blankets that could be thrown to the dog, do you think he/she needs them?

[Springfield Girl]

The problem I have with all of this is that talk is cheap. Nothing was done correctly regarding this business until some residents stepped in to help the owner with his design, pesentation etc. That doesn't help me have any confidence that this will be a positive, contributing business for the neighborhood. People question why some of us have concerns and I tell them because I have heard BS and promises from prospective business owners and investors for 9 years. The overwhelming majority of proposed uses have never come close to the owners representation and we the neighbors are left with the fallout. I talked to one neighbor who went with an open mind to talk with Mr. Jones and was told by him that he was just about broke. Again, not doing much for my confidence. People on this forum want us to believe that SPAR is the driving force behind the opposition, while ignoring the fact that the zoning and historic departments both recommended denial of this project which is only allowed by EXCEPTION. If it's such a great use as some would like us to think why did the above depts. recommend denial and why does it need an exception? And no, it wasn't because SPAR asked for it. Many of the people supporting the carwash are non or temporary residents. What happens if it becomes a nuisance to the people who actually live close to the business? No problem for the non or temporary residents as they don't have to live with it 24-7. What happens if it fails but the door has been opened to something even less desirable. Again, no problems for the non or temporary residents but people like me who live two blocks away are fu**ed. If it goes forward and does not become a nuisance or detriment to me I will admit I was wrong but if it goes to sh*t you will see my immature side come out and I will rant I told you so every friggin day on this site.

[chris farley]

Beautifully put Springfieldgirl, but you know it is far easier and fits the plan to blame SPAR because city agencies, who have the jurisdiction, make a legit decision basis the current zoning. I also, like you, fear what is ahead.  Do the math,  how many flipping cars can you wash in a week to even start to make a return or repay $700,000, even if you try to recoup over 5 years.  On rented land!!  What if the rentor should not be able to keep the property, we have seen that happen recently in Springfield, what happens then to this huge investment.  Something really does not make sense, but I am going to stay out of it, and whatever happens sobeit.

[tufsu1]

good luck with that Lake.  The poster doesnt think that experience in the actual field counts.

this is a problem that many people have...positive discourse and community involvement are important...but in the end, we need to trust the experts.

[CS Foltz]

definition of expert- "ex" is an old hasbeen and "pert" is a drip under pressure!

[ChriswUfGator]

good luck with that Lake.  The poster doesnt think that experience in the actual field counts.

this is a problem that many people have...positive discourse and community involvement are important...but in the end, we need to trust the experts.

For every expert that says one thing, you can hire another one to say the opposite. Watch a medmal trial for kicks sometime. The insurance company's guy will sit there with a straight face saying the wrong leg they accidentally amputated will grow back and the guy has a 0.00000000001% permanent disability rating. The plaintiffs expert will say the opposite. Anybody with a checkbook can get an 'expert' to say whatever they want.

Common sense ought to win the day. What's wrong with a carwash? Is it really worse than all the pawnshops, payday lenders, used car lots, and fried chicken stands that are there already? There goes the neighborhood!

[Springfield Girl]

Common sense says that when zoning prohibits pawnshops, used car lots and other undesirable uses and they are steadily shutting down and leaving the area you don't open the door and start inviting the undesirable uses back in. We don't have any pay day lenders in the Historic District and I don't know why chicken joints would be included along with pawn shops and used car lots anyway. Better watch the Popeyes or KFC bashing Chris or you will be accused of some chicken hating conspiracy, not supporting Springfield businesses and causing their demise. They might feel unwelcome also.
As to the question of what's wrong with a car wash I guess I would ask what's right about one in a 12 block long historic district? What may be appropriate in a suburban area may not be the best fit in a historic area. 

[ChriswUfGator]

Common sense says that when zoning prohibits pawnshops, used car lots and other undesirable uses and they are steadily shutting down and leaving the area you don't open the door and start inviting the undesirable uses back in. We don't have any pay day lenders in the Historic District and I don't know why chicken joints would be included along with pawn shops and used car lots anyway. Better watch the Popeyes or KFC bashing Chris or you will be accused of some chicken hating conspiracy, not supporting Springfield businesses and causing their demise. They might feel unwelcome also.
As to the question of what's wrong with a car wash I guess I would ask what's right about one in a 12 block long historic district? What may be appropriate in a suburban area may not be the best fit in a historic area.  

Yeah, but there's kind of a fly in the ointment there. I do agree that businesses have left the area, and I'm sure that has included pawnshops. But there are also more vacant lots and empty storefronts now than there were before.

The streetscaping results are nice, and there have certainly been a couple highly publicized success stories, like that new building with Uptown Market in it, and then 3 Layers. But overall, there are far fewer commercial structures than there were before.

Every time you lose commercial space, the cost barriers to entry are going up for potential new businesses. Once the neighborhood does finally turn around, it's going to take a million dollars to open up that restaurant or whatever instead of $100k, or otherwise it's going to take a developer to build a new commercial building, and who will then charge high rents commensurate with his expected return on investment, which in either case makes it less likely for the area to attract new businesses, and then less likely for them to succeed if they do come in. Every time you lose a commercial space, this issue will get worse.

So at some point, don't you have to ask whether any kind of shop isn't better than an empty building rotting into the ground, or another vacant lot? As long at there's anything at all in there that keeps the space filled and money coming in the door until the neighborhood turns around enough for something more upscale to take its place (which is a natural, but slow, process), then at least it's keeping the building standing, and in the longer-term picture, that actually is a very good thing.

Though the logic may seem a little contrarian, it is actually in everyone's long-term best interests not to run these places off. Everytime one of these little businesses, ghetto or not, closes up shop, there isn't some huge waiting list of people waiting to jump right in and take over the space. It's pretty much just crickets chirping. Most of these original (e.g., pre-1950) commercial spaces that lose the tenant wind up sitting vacant for years, or decades, and many are eventually demolished for one reason or another. This just increases the cost barrier to entry for potential new businesses, and delays the neighborhood's turnaround.

[uptowngirl]

Hmmmm could it be the owners asking outrageous rents for these places? Uhmmm yes, that is a BIG factor in the issue. The rents are just ungodly....at least for a small business upstart. Perhaps we NEED too many vacant buildings so these owners will come back to earth and leanr that less vacant store fronts and more successful businesses=higher rent.

[CS Foltz]

uptowngirl............with the numbers of empty bldg's, right now as in today, rents are only one small part of the vacancy issue! It would be nice to have a high end store of some sort, thats called an "anchor store" in stripmall speak and that doesn't appear to be happening on Main St.  SPAR can plan all that they want but that area does not have the numbers to support any kind of high end store, electronics, food stuff's, even cleaners. The empty stores square area is not large enough to support something big enough unless they bulldozed a whole block and built from scratch............that won't happen! It is more of a matter of some specialty stores anchoring ...........antiques, or specialty glass companies or specialty lighting companies......they need stores that cater to Historical aspects! Those kinds of stores would fit a historical profile but are quite expensive to start up and establish.......rents are only one slice of a business plan!

[sheclown]

As I stated in another thread.  Our landlord is working with us on the rent and has greatly discounted it.  He is happy to have the space occupied. 

The other day, Tom had locked up and was putting a few things away, when he heard some noise on the roof.  There was a man up on the roof trying to saw through the AC cage to get to the unit.  He didn't think anyone was there.  Had we not been renting, that would have been gone.

I would think most landlords would be willing to work with prospective tenants.

[CS Foltz]

sheclown...........I agree! Most landlords would rather have something coming in rather than nothing, but not all! All one could do is make the attempt.............worse that could happen is they say no!