Appeal of Avondale Bungalow Demolition Denial @ LUZ tonight

[mtraininjax]

Also, Riverside has seen less decline in property values during the "Great Recession" and its decline started later than other areas.

There is no way that can be true with the number of foreclosures in this densely populated area. And they keep on coming. I don't care if you pave the sidewalks in gold, the foreclosures are going to continue to depress the area, no matter if you have a preservation or not. No part of town is protected from value decline.

[grimss]

I've got a nephew in DC who buys up bad real estate debt and liens for a big bank--he's assigned SOLELY to Duval County because there's so much action here. Sad.

However, the foreclosures are everywhere, not just Riverside or other densely populated areas. When MJ posts the RAP presentation, you'll see a chart that uses data from the property appraiser's office to compare median sales in Riverside Avondale with the rest of the County.  I believe it shows property values in Riverside Avondale didn’t start declining until 2008.  Values began declining in 2006 throughout the rest of the county. 

[mtraininjax]

I believe it shows property values in Riverside Avondale didn’t start declining until 2008.  Values began declining in 2006 throughout the rest of the county. 

What value does this have in the situation of every declining home values? It does not matter when it started in RA, but it continues, and in 2010 it is forecast to get worse with declining prices of homes.

Speaking of RAP, how is it that RAP gets to assign different specs on "new" construction versus homeowners trying to rehab their existing structures? Case in point, across from RAP's HQs, there is a new residential 2 story house going up with a METAL roof, which is considered a no-no for existing homeowners. How is it that RAP can call itself "saving the neighborhood from architectural changes", when right across from its OWN HQ, is a shining example of how it cannot police its own block? You can't talk out of both sides of the mouth forever. RAP will have to loosen its strangle on windows and roofs, as examples.

[gatorback]

I think metal was used during the 20's and that's keeping with the spirt. I bought my home in Avondale for 132K and in 6 years, sold it for around 350 less some mechanical credits. The woman that purchased my home put over 4 man years of work and about 100K into it. The bank sold it for 295.  Sometimes, it's less about what the value of the home is when your feelings get in the way.

[Dog Walker]

MT, Metal roofs are not only allowed in the Riverside/Avondale historic district, some of the houses still have their ORIGINAL metal roofs from before 1910 on them.

The medical office building that is being built across from the RAP headquarters was designed in cooperation with RAP to mirror the appearance of the buildings in that part of Riverside.  Take a look at the rendering of the completed building on the sign.  This could have been a brick box like the Boorland-Groover building on the corner of Herschel and Barrs, but there was exemplary cooperation between the owners and RAP.  The architect actually managed to break up and disguise the size of the building well enough that you thought it was a house!  That medical office even has enough on-site parking with the Boorland-Groover facility certainly does not.

There is NOTHING about that building that is different from the standards that are RECOMMENDED by RAP to the Historic Commission.  RAP has NO regulatory or enforcement authority.

What happened?  Did you try to put in some cheap vinyl windows without a COA and get caught at it?  LOL!  You sound sore.  I understand, having rebuilt 21 of the 22 original windows in my old house.  It was an awful job and I could never work up the will power to do the last window.

[mtraininjax]

Dog - You cannot change your roof from shingle to metal, not allowed, yet metal roofs are allowed. Not sore, there are different rules for new vs. old construction. Its silly, stupid, and impedes progress of becoming more green.

I know many who wanted a metal roof on existing shingle houses, but cannot, because it does not match the "architectural integrity" of the existing house. Again, government telling people what it can and cannot do.

RAP has NO regulatory or enforcement authority.

Please, they do indeed, not directly, but its well known that they speak and the City acts. That will not float here.

[thirdeye]

mtraininjax

Apparently RAP is "untouchable" on this forum while another similar organization gets accused of criminal activity.

[CS Foltz]

thirdeye............not familiar with RAP...........enlighten me if you would!

[CS Foltz]

third eye...........I got what I needed! RAP (Riverdale/Avondale Preservation Society) to me is in the same category that SPAR is. If there is a new dwelling going up across from their Headquarters then they must operate out of the same handbook that SPAR does! When organizations get too big for their pants and think it is their way or hit the highway, they have overstepped the boundries of good taste and gone beyond the mandate that the area gave them. Their power is granted to them by the area that they are trying to control so my first thought would be show up on their doorstep with numbers! The more the merrier, lots of people. The first thing that usually falls to the wayside is the even handed application of rules and regulations! Just like the City, the favored few get what they want, when they want it and the heck with the rest of the tax paying public! If that does not get their attention, then you can file a complaint with the state and force the state to look into the matter...........that should be the last resort but I would not hesitate if that is what it takes for even handed application.

[Dog Walker]

Again, metal roofs and conversion from shingle to metal is not prohibited in Riverside.  Some particular types of metal roof are not allowed because of their appearance. Second, what is being built across from the RAP house is a medical office building that conforms to the appearance standards and zoning in the historic district.  I am sure that the preference of the RAP board would have been for a residence to have gone in there, but there was nothing they could do to enforce that preference so they worked with the owners to come up with a building that fits in with the surrounding residences very well.  There was no special dealing going on, just good cooperation from the owners.

RAP can legitimately be criticized for a number of things, but inconsistent recommendations to the Historic Commission is not one of them.  Sit in on one of the design review committee meetings sometime.  There a group of volunteers spends hours going over voluntarily submitted plans and helps homeowners and architects conform to the historic district requirements before they submit their plans for a COA.

MT, it can be a pain and takes extra time to get a COA before you can get your building permits and takes even more time to go to the design review committee.  Very frustrating, but you are in a historic district, not in the woods somewhere and the purpose is to preserve the appearance and function of the neighborhood.  I have renovated two historic properties in the district including a set of buildings that was condemned and scheduled for demolition and have been through the COA process and had to deal with RAP a lot.

[JeffreyS]

CS I think you have RAP all wrong they have a track record of maybe being too strong on keeping the fabric of the historic area unchanged. They have active area participants and you will never see the out with old in with the new attitude in Riverside.

[thirdeye]

thirdeye............not familiar with RAP...........enlighten me if you would!

CS Foltz,

This "bungalow" issue is a perfect example of how poor a job RAP does in communicating the implications of being in the Riverside/Avondale district. The bungalow's owner tore down his garage, had JEA pull the meter and started to prep for demolishing the home. I doubt Mr.Lamb or his contractors were aware of the need for a COA. If this was such a valued piece of our historical fabric then why was the homeowner not aware?

Now Mr. Lamb is being accused of trickery and ruining our neighborhood. His intentions are questioned and twisted to suit the needs of our "neighborhood protectors". And all the time we forget he OWNS the property! Many people on this forum and in our neighborhood really get a kick out of telling/forcing people what to do with their property.

Having said that, I like the idea of organizations RAP in theory. I know Riverside/Avondale is a unique neighborhood in Jax. Someone or something has to protect it.

My issue is their execution. They owe it to the homeowners in this neighborhood to notify us of what the implications of owning a home in the RAP district is and they don't. They could send out a packet to new homeowners or make a phone call to new members letting them know what the "rules" are and they don't.

Most homeowners in R/A have no idea about COA's and how the process works. They want to replace a window they do it. Alter their driveway or install a fence they do it. Most people do it and never get a COA and never get caught.

Real estate agents in this area do not tell potential buyers of the implications because they know it might turn them off.
Real Estate agents should be required by law to notify people of the implications of owning a home in a historic district. There is basically a HOA in Riverside/Avondale but here they do not tell u about it.

Where are the check's and balances with RAP? There are none, our insightful City Council rubber stamped all of JHPC's and RAP's authority without knowing the affect.

I do believe RAP should not allow certain distinctive homes in their district to be demolished without input from the community. There are a lot of amazing homes in this neighborhood, of which Mr. Lambs is not one.

[JeffreyS]

He has owned the property since the 70s and does not know it is a historic district?  He should sue his contractors if they do not get the needed permits.

[fsu813]

Mr. Lamb has been aware of what happens in historic districts for many years. He's been in and involved in the neighbrohood in one way or another since at least 1989.

[Dog Walker]

Mr. Bronson Lamb has long been known for skirting the rules when he can.  He got in trouble years ago when his marina was caught breaking the environmental regulations too.  Cost him a bundle of money and a lot of embarrassment.

Just because you own a piece of property doesn't mean you can do with it exactly as you want.  You own your car and there is a whole book full of rules about where and how you can operate it.  You own your house, but zoning keeps your neighbor from putting in a pig farm next door.  For reasons of safety, you have to have your home inspected as it is built to conform to certain construction standards.

Lamb wants to tear the house down because the property is more valuable with nothing on it.  If he doesn't want problems maintaining and old house, he can just sell it.  No body ever guaranteed him or anyone else that an investment of any kind is going to make the maximum profit.