Appeal of Avondale Bungalow Demolition Denial @ LUZ tonight

[north miami]

Mr. Bronson Lamb has long been known for skirting the rules when he can.  He got in trouble years ago when his marina was caught breaking the environmental regulations too.  Cost him a bundle of money and a lot of embarrassment.

You speak of operation "River Rat".Let's not grant undue positive significance!

As a result of City of Jacksonville River Summit # 1 group 'vision' and consensus on ideas for river improvement ( my suggestions to monitor our very own local government against harmful impacts seemed like the work of a crazy man in that era of "St.John Delaney),the 'Grande Dame' Mrs. Rogers (Pier 17) identified boat sewage as an evil.
Soon after the City/state attorney office undertook clandestine investigation of area boat yards including Lambs Yacht Center and Huckins.It was a high profile publicity event-I believe Huckins shown in hand cuffs.......and in fact all for very little cause.Per the city settlement.John Delaney would later clearly prove my warnings prophetic at River Summit # 2 ,selling river surface water drinking supply,which ushered in water wars and other episodes such as city embrace of Freedom Commerce wetland development.

[Dog Walker]

Sewage was not the problem that got both Huckins and Lambs in trouble.  It was washing construction debris, oil and bottom paint residue into the Ortega River, all of which were illegal at the time and Lamb knew it.  He is an arrogant man who thinks that rules should not apply to him.  He was also a good businessman who ran a very successful marina and boat yard. 

Inviting TV cameras along for the citations and doing a perp walk on the husband of Huckins yachts owner was inexcusable.

You discovered that John Delaney was/is a hypocrite???  Big surprise!  NOT!

[Steve]

This "bungalow" issue is a perfect example of how poor a job RAP does in communicating the implications of being in the Riverside/Avondale district. The bungalow's owner tore down his garage, had JEA pull the meter and started to prep for demolishing the home. I doubt Mr.Lamb or his contractors were aware of the need for a COA. If this was such a valued piece of our historical fabric then why was the homeowner not aware?

This issue to me lies with the contractors and the homeowner. A 10 minute phone call to JHPC would have told him that his home is a contributing structure.  When I went to contract on my home, not only did my Real Estate Agent make sure I was aware that the house was in a historic district, and subject to more rules than the rest of the city, I was asked to sign a document stating that I was purchasing a contributing structure in a historic district, so I believe this is happening.  

Now Mr. Lamb is being accused of trickery and ruining our neighborhood. His intentions are questioned and twisted to suit the needs of our "neighborhood protectors". And all the time we forget he OWNS the property! Many people on this forum and in our neighborhood really get a kick out of telling/forcing people what to do with their property.

Yes, he owns the property, but I can't do anything I please with it.  Those laws concering historic preservation have been upheld by the supreme court, so if you have an issue on this point, there are nine folks in Washington that I'd go visit.

Having said that, I like the idea of organizations RAP in theory. I know Riverside/Avondale is a unique neighborhood in Jax. Someone or something has to protect it.

Completely agree

My issue is their execution. They owe it to the homeowners in this neighborhood to notify us of what the implications of owning a home in the RAP district is and they don't. They could send out a packet to new homeowners or make a phone call to new members letting them know what the "rules" are and they don't.

See my first point, and I'm sorry, I don't buy that Mr Lamb didn't know it was an issue, nor will I ever.

Most homeowners in R/A have no idea about COA's and how the process works. They want to replace a window they do it. Alter their driveway or install a fence they do it. Most people do it and never get a COA and never get caught.

This to me lies with both parties, but perhaps more with the contractor.  For example, if I live in mandarin, and want to put an addition on my house, I don't know what needs to be done, but I can make a reasonable assumption that I'll have to go downtown and talk to someone.  So, I hire a contractor to pull the appropriate permits. A COA is just part of that process.

Real estate agents in this area do not tell potential buyers of the implications because they know it might turn them off.

Total BS.  See my first point.  And frankly, many people (myself included) chose to buy in the district BECAUSE of the rules.

Real Estate agents should be required by law to notify people of the implications of owning a home in a historic district. There is basically a HOA in Riverside/Avondale but here they do not tell u about it.

Totally agree, and I was required.

Where are the check's and balances with RAP? There are none, our insightful City Council rubber stamped all of JHPC's and RAP's authority without knowing the affect.

Obviously you weren't at the LUZ meeting last week.  The City Council did NOT rubber stamp JHPC decision.  If they did, don't you think the issue would have been settled by now.

I do believe RAP should not allow certain distinctive homes in their district to be demolished without input from the community. There are a lot of amazing homes in this neighborhood, of which Mr. Lambs is not one.

Actually, his home is one.  Forgive me for saying this, but I wasn't aware that you were the authority on historic homes.  The list of contributing structures was submitted as part of the historic district designation, and Mr Lamb's home was on this list.  Any group of experts could debate each home over and over, so who wins?  The group that did this decided that his home should be on the list, thus it is on the list.

The argument is the exact same one that was made regarding the church on Julia Street next door to KBJ architects' headquarters.  They made this argument, and because it wasn't in a historic district, it was torn down.  Take a look at downtown and see what it has gotten us.  This demolition crap needs to stop, and we need to move on.

[Dog Walker]

Thanks, Steve.  You beat me to it and did a much better job than what I was working on.

[gatorback]

I went to the RAP meetings while that man at Hollywood & Remington went through his process. RAP was very nice to him and if the mental issues he had didn't get in the way things would have turned out differently I'm sure. He killed himself. But, RAP  went above and beyond to deal with the situation. He built this gynormus garage without a permit and plans and they let him have it since he already built it. It is way out of scale with the house. It was the front steps that we just couldn't live with. The steps up to his house (1500 sq. ft.) looked like the steps to the capital building.

Plus, he tore down the olgi or ogi that was over the front door. There's only one ogi left in Riverside. He said it was rotten, but we'll never know.  He was making the home bigger by expanding the front which through off the scale. Shame really. Was a charming house and I think the people that bought it did a good job with it.

[north miami]

Sewage was not the problem that got both Huckins and Lambs in trouble.  It was washing construction debris, oil and bottom paint residue into the Ortega River, all of which were illegal at the time and Lamb knew it.  He is an arrogant man who thinks that rules should not apply to him.  He was also a good businessman who ran a very successful marina and boat yard. 

Inviting TV cameras along for the citations and doing a perp walk on the husband of Huckins yachts owner was inexcusable.

You discovered that John Delaney was/is a hypocrite???  Big surprise!  NOT!

At the risk of swerving way off thread- note too Mr.Lamb was,at least until recently,if not in fact still,Jacksonville Waterways Commission.

[thirdeye]

Steve,

You are obviously so pro-RAP that u will not admit that they are flawed and create ill-will in the neighborhood. So I am wasting time talking about it.

Best Wishes.

[Dog Walker]

Of course RAP is flawed.  All human institutions are.  You obviously have ill-will towards them so you are correct in that too.  Far from wasting time talking about it, I think Steve and I would really like to convince you to change your mind and get you to pitch in and make RAP less flawed in your view.

On balance, most of us think that RAP has created far more good will and has done far more for the area than any problems they have created aside from hurt feelings.  I know Kay Ehus, the Chairman of the Board, Wayne Wood, the Founder, Carmin Godwin, the Executive Director and a couple of the board members.  They are people of integrity, honor, commitment and compassion.

Disclaimer:  I do not now have nor ever held a position within RAP.  I do have a family membership.

[grimss]

Like Dog Walker, I agree that RAP has flaws and benefits.  I, personally, would wager that, on balance, RAP does FAR MORE good than it does bad. And I'm not talking from just a My House-My Windows perspective, but from a My House-My Neighborhood perspective. I live in the Historic District, but I have never owned an historical home--my first house was too new--1948 (and too ugly) and my new home is, well, too new (3 years old). But I do know that I enjoy, every day, an environment that my neighbors--with RAP's help, and sometimes without--have created and maintained, and that it's better than just about any other neighborhood in town.

Now, I do know a lot about RAP's past contributions (a recent volunteer project on behalf of RAP), and I would challenge Thirdeye to match me in a contest for RAP GOOD versus RAP BAD.  Here, in the words of Bobby Flay, is my throw down, the first volley in the measure of RAP GOOD, to be countered by however many (meaningful) examples of RAP BAD that ThirdEye would like to offer:

1) RAP saved the 'hood from being decimated by two freeways running through it (not to be confused by a River Running Through It--think Much WORSE). The City's 1990 Comp Plan (presented back in, I think, 1974-75) called for the construction of two freeways through RA: one, to be called the Riverside Freeway, would have been 6 lanes wide and would have run roughly parallel to Roosevelt around Park street. It would have required a 300 foot right-of-way to be carved on either side of those six lanes. Google it, and see how much of the district would have been affected. 

The second freeway, to be called the River Oaks Freeway, would have been four lanes wide and bisected the district from Roosevelt, along Boone Park, past the Avondale Shops, connecting down to Richmond St. and a proposed new bridge over the St. Johns. Apply that same 300 foot-right-of-way. Visualize how much of the familiar street grid, tree cover, and neighborhood cohesiveness would have been lost--not to mention lovely old homes that would have had to be torn down.

RAP was the entity that actually studied the proposed Comp Plan and figured out what it really meant for the District. (Secondary challenge: When's the last time you poured over Comp Plans to determine what it meant for YOU?) RAP was the sole entity that actually understood the threat.

And how did it effect change? It marshaled over 1000 neighbors to show up at a meeting to protest the plan. It defended our neighborhood before the city. And, ultimately, it defeated the proposed road changes. (BTW, the City is still trying to finesse the traffic path from Orange Park to Downtown, and Riverside remains their preferred route. Thirdeye, what are you doing to prevent cut-thru traffic through your neighborhood?).

Not to be snide, but you're part of the problem if you're not part of the solution. RAP is, and has always been, a volunteer organization. Its strengths and weaknesses are reflective of the fact that its volunteers are, in the vast number of cases, the voice of RAP. If you see something you'd like to change, then please step up and volunteer your time to address that issue.